Michael D Higgins insists he is President of Ireland, refuses to commemorate partition

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/higgins-blames-politicised-title-of-ni-event-for-declining-invite-says-dup-criticism-a-bit-much-1.4676291

What ya all make of this?

He says he is President of Ireland, not President of the Republic of Ireland and he won't commemorate partition by the sound of it.

Do you agree with him?

How does one make a poll here?

My own view is he is mostly correct but I'm not sure is office is suppose to this political? The govt says they not instruct him not to go.

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058209217/michael-d-higgins-insists-he-is-president-of-ireland-refuses-to-commemorate-partition

He says he is President of Ireland, not President of the Republic of Ireland and he won't commemorate partition by the sound of it.

That sounds fair enough to me, seems they knew exactly what they were doing using the "president of Republic of Ireland" reference (to deliberately antagonise)

seen John Bruton going toe to toe with Diarmaid Ferriter last night on this, and Ferriter definitely came out on top. A president of Ireland going to a service to celebrate the partition of the island is a ludicrous suggestion. Let one of those gombeens who want to see Ireland "rejoin the commonwealth" go if they want, but Higgins stance should be respected.

twinytwo

The correct title of the office is president of Ireland. But then the DUP etc have a major issue referring to officials in Ireland by their correct title.

President Higgins is correct in everything he has said. They made the event political so he declined.

Shelga

Hmm, not sure what I make of this. The event is not about “celebrating” the partition- the phrase “marking” the centenary is used. Could have been a chance for political figures on both sides of the border to come together and take stock.

Also him referring to himself as “President of Ireland, not President of the Republic of Ireland” seems unnecessarily provocative and snotty. NI is part of a different country, whether he or I or anyone else likes it or not.

I see sheep

Good man Michael D he's dead right.

Beechwoodspark

He shouldn’t go and the Dup can go take a long walk off a short plank...

Sunny Disposition

Not referring to him by his correct title was a deliberate insult, there's no way that's a clerical error. So he'd be 100% right not to attend on those grounds alone. If they don't want to refer to him as the President of Ireland they shouldn't have invited him.

In any event he'd be right not to attend. The event is clearly meant as a celebration of partition, despite any protestations to the contrary. Saying it's to mark partition rather than celebrate it doesn't change the reality.

rock22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902546#Comment_117902546

It is the correct title and reflects the name of the country.

Even after making this point, Jeffry Donaldson again referred to him, on Morning Ireland ,radio, as president of republic of Ireland.

Unionists wanted to make this a political event and they have succeeded. One wonders what the churches organising this were thinking?.

Michael D was 100% correct

POBox19

The President of Ireland is not available, he has a prior engagement on that day. An arrangement like this one with the Queen attending has to be organised months if not years in advance, they could have asked earlier. It is an insult by the DUP organisers to ask the 'President of the Republic of Ireland' knowing full well that is not the correct form of address, they probably held back calling him the 'President of the Free State'.

The DUP is looking for another chance to be 'offended', it has backfired on them and shows how foolish they are.

leahyl

He's dead right, good man Michael D.

He isn't the President of the whole island of Ireland for the simple reason that I, in the North, can't vote for him or his office. He is the president of Ireland, the short title given to the Republic Of Ireland.

Personally I think it's a trick missed, it's far too easy for the DUP to point and tell their followers that nothing has changed or ever will change. To get to the point where we can have a unified Ireland, enough moderate unionists like me need to be convinced that a/ we would get a fair deal in Ireland and b/ that Ireland actually wants us. This would have ticked both boxes.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902588#Comment_117902588

I don't think anything "backfires" on the DUP, they fully expect a faceblast with every decision they make lately and their enjoyment of it only seems to go up the more they hurt themselves.

ohnonotgmail

Anyone that annoys the gobshites in the DUP is good with me.

Supercell

Fair play to him, he is Presidant of Ireland, why should he go to a celebration of its partition?

As previously mentioned the Unionists showed their hand by inviting the President of the "Republic" Of Ireland, a deliberate error in title and an insult, nothing but Unionist posturing here. He would be right to say his office received no invite at all to play them at their own game.

Unlike the spineless FF lot who are nationalists in name only he actually does actually care about his country, well done Michael D!

RobbieTheRobber

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902617#Comment_117902617

Sorry that is just wrong.

I refer you to the constitution of Ireland and article 4 which declare the name of this state.

ARTICLE 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/cons/en/html#part1

What you are referring to is the official description of the country of Ireland as declared in the 1948 Act, The Republic of Ireland Act.

2.—It is hereby declared that the description of the State shall be the Republic of Ireland.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1948/act/22/section/2/enacted/en/html#zza22y1948s2

An Act of Legislation does not supersede the constitution so the name of this country remains in the English language Ireland

davetherave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902546#Comment_117902546

Constitution of Ireland

Article 4

The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.

Article 12

There shall be a President of Ireland (Uachtarán na hÉireann), hereinafter called the President.

seamus

He is absolutely correct.

Article 3 of the Irish constitution states:

1 It is the firm will of the Irish nation, in harmony and friendship, to unite all the people who share the territory of the island of Ireland, in all the diversity of their identities and traditions, recognising that a united Ireland shall be brought about only by peaceful means with the consent of a majority of the people, democratically expressed, in both jurisdictions in the island.

Partition by definition causes disharmony and division. Therefore any celebration or commemoration of partition is repugnant to the constitution. Therefore it would be wrong for the President - as the defender of the constitution - to attend such an event.

That's before we get to the fact that the event is a protestant religious service and therefore is excludes a majority of Northern Irish citizens. This is not a commemoration, it's a piece of Unionist onanism.

Cilldara_2000

Protocol on this sort of thing is important so it was bad form by whomever sent the invitation to address it incorrectly. Could be malice behind it or ignorance but either way it was bad form. You'd think that these archbishops and church leaders who appear to be the organisers should have known better. So I'm leaning towards malice - whichever eejit sent the invitation was deliberately trying to stir up trouble.

The President is well advised to steer well clear of this sordid little partionist affair.

hawley

He should have had the decency to discuss the matter with the heads of government. It's not his position to make political statements like this. People are excusing it because of their dislike of the DUP, especially in the wake of Brexit, but in reality he's way out of line with this.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902649#Comment_117902649

Are you saying he is a thundering disgrace?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902630#Comment_117902630

Not just that straightforward though is it ....

"according to the Constitution of Ireland, the names of the Irish state are 'Ireland' (in English) and 'Éire' (in Irish).[1] From 1922 to 1937, its legal name was 'the Irish Free State'. The state has jurisdiction over almost five-sixths of the island of Ireland. The rest of the island is Northern Ireland, a part of the United Kingdom. Consequently, other formal and informal names have been (and are) used when it is necessary to distinguish between the territory of the state and the island as a whole. In 1948 it adopted the term Republic of Ireland as the 'official description of the state', without changing the constitutional names."

<link to the Wikipedia page that I'm not allowed to insert>

Note I'm not saying he's the President of the Republic of Ireland .... his title is President of Ireland and in that the DUP were incorrect. However he is not my President much as I would like him to be as I can't vote for him. It's complicated. I do think it's a trick missed though on the part of Ireland, but I also agree he is entirely free to make his own decision on it.

Butson

Higgins is an absolute child.

Millionaire socialist - the best kind.

noelfirl

More than anything on this, it's his principled choice and at this point the spineless hand-wringing seen across the broadcast/written spectrum over the past few days about 'whether-or-not-he-should-go' needs to stop. Taking every opportunity to do overt kowtowing to a select group of whingy politicians from the North who are just engaged in dog-whistling is embarrassing beyond belief.

And yes, their use of an incorrect form of his title in the invitation was a provocation, deliberate or otherwise.

Cilldara_2000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902662#Comment_117902662

The idea that one's economic status must inform their political opinions is a broken cliche and offensive. This works both ways - rich people can be socialist and poor people can be free market capitalists - both are legitimate positions.

Remarkable that anyone thinks he should even say yes. And if it was a genuine invite, title would have been correct.

Pretty tired of self-hating Irish people using this sort of thing to look down on Ireland.

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902641#Comment_117902641

Putting aside what our constitution says- is he President of Northern Ireland? He clearly is not. So I would posit that the title of President of Ireland is kind of meaningless.

On the other hand, partition was a stain in our history and has caused nothing but trouble. I don’t know what’s best here.

Supercell

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902693#Comment_117902693

Well said.

Fuascailteoir

Right decision. The president would have no business at an event commemorating the establishment of a sectarian failed statelet that set about disenfranchising a large section of the population and consigning them to second class citizens in all manner of ways. Be as well attending a KKK gathering

irishgrover

judging but the posts here, the most shocking thing is the large minority of people who don't know that name of this country. Seriously like, what the ****?

Sunny Disposition

The DUP complaining about this is farcical. Their side made an insult out of the very invitation.

Michael D is hugely popular, skated in at the last election, and the way he's handled a potentially difficult situation like this shows why. He just wasn't going to have his office degraded or get involved with what is clearly going to be a celebration of partition, and he behaved with honesty and a little grace.

Donaldson queried whether he was declining to come because of pressure from the Government. It shows Donaldson doesn't have a clue what Higgins is like.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902696#Comment_117902696

Ah yeah we'll just put aside the constitution...

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902696#Comment_117902696

'Putting aside what our constitution says'?

See those nameplates at the UN, the EU and everywhere imaginable and every podium the Taoiseach or govt official stands behind as they deliver news?

It says Ireland, that's the name of the country that Higgins is President of and it's recognised internationally.

Republic of Ireland is the descriptor and name of the soccer squad in FIFA/UEFA circles only.

This is most definitely a planned sleight thereby turning it political. There's a reason why the BBC to this day, call our nation the 'Irish Republic'

Partition has also been a total disaster for every person on the island, 50 years of sanctioned one party apartheid rule followed by 30 years of war. Great stuff altogether.

Mind you, it'll be interesting the question raised whether Higgins put aside what our constitution says in relation to his duties - ie, should he have consulted the govt for advice first and then followed it , that's Bruton's argument. Bruton agrees referring to him as Pres of RoI is incorrect yet stops short of saying it is on purpose.

EDIT: Looks like Coveneys office was consulted but didn't give clear, definitive advice according to Claire Byrne show just now...

Shelga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902819#Comment_117902819

What does “President of Ireland” mean in practice?

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902641#Comment_117902641

I could not care less whether it was protestant or catholic or whatever. Same judeo Christian stuff except the stand up/sit down/move it all around bits differ.

A partitioning is an odd thing to commemorate/celebrate imo.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902845#Comment_117902845

I think it means he's not the President of France.

I don't really care one way or another what he does but he shouldn't be going in my opinion.

I'm surprised he's not going though.

I'm sure some politicians and journalists will be upset by his decision

steddyeddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902516#Comment_117902516

Where can I see this McMurphy?

You address me by my proper title, you little bollocks!

Furze99

He absolutely should go.

He is our president and elected to represent us in such matters.

He's invited by our close neighbours to this event.

The way this is spinning out is a fierce insult to many of our close neighbours, people with whom many aspire to build some sort of united island state.

Butson

https://kevinmyers.ie/2021/09/16/rooms-vacant-no-dogs-or-unionists/

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902944#Comment_117902944

does anybody really care what kevin myers thinks?

osarusan

I didn't know that Kevin Myers was still spouting his waffle.

But he sure is still doing it: "identify-fascism", "Soon we might yet hear the stamp of marching feet as the Nazis’ last remaining allies in Europe draw closer and closer to power", and the need for TDs to swear allegiance to the Gardai and Defence Forces, as "Such measures are essential when covert-paramilitaries threaten a democracy from within."

It's some rant, from Higgins to transgender and BLM, to Zappone, to Jeff Bezos, ending with the Nazis. Genuine 'old man shouts at cloud' stuff.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902908#Comment_117902908

Virgin Media Player - Last night's Tonight show. They were also on Today with Claire Byrne this morning separately rather than debating

archfi

All voices and commentary are to be welcomed.

WrenBoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902926#Comment_117902926

Build Unity by celebrating our division ??

McMurphy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902908#Comment_117902908

Was on last night on the tonight show on virgin. Should be available on player.

https://twitter.com/TonightVMTV/status/1438588298210029574?s=19

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902894#Comment_117902894

John Bruton was beside himself with anger about it this morning on the wireless. For that alone i say well done Mr. President

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903019#Comment_117903019

all opinions are equal?

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903141#Comment_117903141

Rather everyone is allowed to have one and express it.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903150#Comment_117903150

of course they are. And others are allowed to say that those opinions are **** and not worth listening to. That applies to the opinions of Kevin Myers.

archfi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117903158#Comment_117903158

Of course!