National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

clohamon · 18-10-2021 9:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038627#Comment_118038627

Are you still getting free service from Starlink?

Messer1 · 18-10-2021 9:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038827#Comment_118038827

Yep, and still paying eir for my (unneeded backup) FTTC service. Your point?

clohamon · 18-10-2021 10:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038893#Comment_118038893

Your doc says "Brian... has no commercial links to any business interests discussed in this document"

Messer1 · 18-10-2021 10:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039042#Comment_118039042

True. And your point?

clohamon · 18-10-2021 10:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039071#Comment_118039071

Surely, getting free service is at least a benefit-in-kind?

listermint · 18-10-2021 10:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118038514#Comment_118038514

Wait what your getting free service. Your just Hocking a service you get for free. Thats not really an unbiased opinion.

Messer1 · 18-10-2021 10:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039085#Comment_118039085

It offers no net benefit to me as I also continue to pay for a parallel service. I think you are scrapping the bottom of a (very) empty barrel.

listermint · 18-10-2021 10:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039117#Comment_118039117

Well that's nonsense. And way off topic. But here we are

The Cush · 18-10-2021 10:24pm

How can I avail of this free starlink service and still keep paying for my up to 5 Mbps wisp?

ussjtrunks · 18-10-2021 11:40pm

Does starlink own the low orbit satellite network they are building or can other providers piggy back on it?

The Cush · 19-10-2021 1:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118039624#Comment_118039624

SpaceX manufacture and operate the Starlink satellite network.

Nolars · 19-10-2021 7:36am

Will ye stop the starlink chat here.

KildareP · 19-10-2021 8:06am

100% on the Starlink chat. Has nothing to do with the NBI nor should it.

Back to NBI, the in-laws house in Johnstown, Kilkenny originally get an estimated connection date of Jun-Dec 22.

I see this has now been pushed out to Jan-Mar 23.

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 11:31am

https://www.businesspost.ie/telecoms/national-broadband-ireland-off-the-pace-to-meet-connections-targets-7e2aa1e9

National Broadband Ireland has been paid hundreds of millions of euro to date under the state’s multi-billion-euro rural internet scheme despite connecting far fewer homes and businesses than required under its initial targets.

The €5.7 billion National Broadband Plan is well behind its initial rollout target of making the network available to 115,000 by the end of 2021 and will instead now aim to reach just 60,000 premises by the turn of the year.

NBI has passed just 17,000 of the 60,000 premises to date meaning it will have to make the network available to 43,000 more homes and businesses in the remaining two-and-a-half months to reach even the reduced targets agreed with the Department of Communications (DECC).

A further 10,000 premises can pre-order the network at present but are not yet available for connection.

The company, headed by US businessman David McCourt, has been paid €132.3 million by the state to date, split between €42.5 million in 2020 and €89.8 million so far this year. DECC has also paid €5.8 million to advisers for work overseeing the plan so far this year.

Both NBI and DECC have declined to provide details as to the number of homes and businesses connected to the network since controversy flared earlier this year when the Business Post first reported that just 632 of the 540,000 premises covered by the plan were using the network as of mid-June.

Asked again this week, the department said connections to the network were “demand-driven” without providing any detail while NBI said it was not in a position to release “ad hoc information”.

NBI has claimed relief under the contract for delays caused by the Covid-19 pandemic and as such have not faced any penalties for missing its targets to date. Financial penalties can be levied against the company from February 1, 2022 should it continue to miss milestones.

Subsidy payments can also be withheld if premises aren’t passed in line with targets agreed with the department.

The company doesn’t know yet how many homes and businesses it’ll be able to offer high-speed internet to through the NBP next year.

Mark Griffin, the DECC Secretary General, told the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) last week that NBI was “looking at a figure of 70,000 to 84,000” for 2022.

DECC has confirmed to the Business Post, however, that NBI has not yet been able to provide a more precise number but added the department was hopeful it would do so before long.

“National Broadband Ireland has stated that it will deliver between 70,000 and 84,000 premises in 2022. The department expects a detailed plan from NBI in the coming weeks to support its 2022 deployment plan. The department will evaluate that plan when it has been received,” he said.

An NBI spokesman said it was in “regular dialogue [with the department] to finalise the deployment plan for 2022”.

Hococop · 19-10-2021 11:42am

Can't see them even make the 60k mark that is so bad how far behind they are, even with covid

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 12:29pm

Is the number of premises per each DA available? I know the per-county numbers are here:

https://nbi.ie/county-breakdown-by-intervention-area/

wexfordman2 · 19-10-2021 1:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040990#Comment_118040990

5.7bn ?

Where did that figure come from ?

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 2:22pm

https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/officials-to-be-quizzed-on-broadband-rollout-delays/

A site visit? What they're expecting to get from that I do not know

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 2:25pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041905#Comment_118041905

The reporter mentioned the same figure in a tweet in the last week

https://twitter.com/peterodwyer1/status/1448766923253207045?t=p0sqr9QV5mj5ZSQcxWOR7Q&s=19

He mentions revenue being the cost? I replied to him on Twitter looking for clarification but didn't get a response.

The Cush · 19-10-2021 2:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041905#Comment_118041905

A figure of up to €6bn was mentioned during the tendering process as the overall cost of rolling out the NBP network with the state subsiding it at €2.1bn plus contingency of almost €500m. The rest comes from the NBI investors and subscriber revenue.

The subsidy is fixed, people like throwing out the €3bn or more figure but this dropped to €2.6bn when the vat element was removed as it was only an interdepartmental transfer.

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 3:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118042557#Comment_118042557

Right, so the fixed cost to the Irish tax payer is the ~ 3 billion figure. The extra 2.7 billion is hoped-for revenue but not from the state, but rather that proportion of the population who decide to actually use NBI as private individuals. So it's only "costing the taxpayer" the extra 2.7 billion the same way that getting buying any product or service "costs" the taxpayer. It's up to the taxpayer whether they pay for it or not after the upfront costs have been spent.

joe123 · 19-10-2021 4:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041905#Comment_118041905

Site visit. Lord God this is laughable stuff.

Grandstanding from politicians who dont understand or know what to ask. NBI having pop up shops ran by college students. Delays upon delays. What a **** show.

heavydawson · 19-10-2021 5:30pm

https://twitter.com/jerrybuttimer/status/1450452137260064779?t=fwgl1uU2b20a1On960jcnw&s=19

https://twitter.com/JamesOConnorTD/status/1450433716359155714?t=Ks4JvPJqv68HAMIMl8uLGQ&s=19

That'll learn em!

clohamon · 19-10-2021 7:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041326#Comment_118041326

The last copy I took with premises numbers in it is dated 2021-07-25. There's only 73 DAs.

roll_out_2021-07-25.xlsx

FWIW, you can *estimate* using DECC's intervention data..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117693341/#Comment_117693341

...and NBI's townland data. But beware,

The actual townlands within each DA area are not settled.
DA boundaries cut through townland boundaries.
NBI do not include townlands with currently zero IA premises.
There are ambiguous townland names which has probably caused errors.

da_prems.xlsx

...and the DECC map for the city centres.

Limerick DA-57, Cork DA-36, Waterford DA-80, Dublin DA-37, Galway DA-46

heavydawson · 20-10-2021 12:30pm

Did anyone watch the committee meeting ( https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20211019-oireachtas-committee-to-discuss-roll-out-of-national-broadband-plan-for-rural-ireland/ ) this morning? Should be available to playback tomorrow I guess?

clohamon · 20-10-2021 2:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118047329#Comment_118047329

Yes. Some notes (DECC and DCRD Answers in italics). Oireachtas members in bold.

DECC: Ciarán Ó'hÓbáin, Fergal Mulligan, Patrick Neary

DCRD: StJohn O'Connor, Jake Ryan

Eamon Ó Cuiv

Islanders were in fear of BCPs because it meant they were down the list for FTTH. (unfounded said DECC)

Wondered was Islands tech solution end-to end FTTH. (DECC said depended on circumstances. Possibly microwave backhaul to mainland. Performance 'standards' apply regardless)

Said Department for the Islands should be able to give additional subsidy for sub-sea cables. (noted by DECC).

Percentage take-up? (Not answered specifically, but ahead of projection say DECC. 1000 connx/month currently)

Claire Kerrane

What's included in 60k EOY? (Premises passed and RFO say DECC. 17K fully passed and RFO currently says Patrick Neary. 2022 targets still not settled.)

Ahaskragh EA failures (<30Mb/s) being ignored by DECC (noted by DECC. LA BB officers should be first port of call. It's their job say DCRD)

Staff numbers low? (270 in-line with NBI plan say DECC)

Last minute premises re-schedule. (DECC say 99% of premises remain within original DA. Most changes due to new-build)

Eugene Murphy

Joining gaps in Eircom 300K and extending it to 'gap areas' (DECC say NBI received 5 tenders for this work. Could be fibre extensions or wireless. Pilots due to start next year. "There's always going to be a next premises" says DECC.)

Róisín Garvey

NBI's relationship with Eircom? ("strong","deep","commited", says Ciarán Ó'hÓbáin. "positive" says Patrick Neary)

Denis Naughten (DN)

Permit problems with TII, Irish Rail and LAs. CC managers have asked for Mobile & BB taskforce to be re-established says DN. (that function now covered by NBI says DECC)

Why are Eircom able to build IFN with Covid but NBI cannot? (DECC maintain that their external advisors certified that NBI reasons were credible and relief justified)

Are copper phone numbers portable to VOIP? (depends on whether retailer offers phone service say DECC)

Much more from DN on Mobile and BB Taskforce. (DECC run down the clock)

heavydawson · 20-10-2021 3:50pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048309#Comment_118048309

Is the 1000 Cnnx/Month the DECC projection? Or the actual amount currently being connected? (I'm assuming the former)

Nyum Nyum · 20-10-2021 4:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118040990#Comment_118040990

The NBI apologist will be along soon to handwave all this away.

clohamon · 20-10-2021 5:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048659#Comment_118048659

I took it to be the current connection rate.

Mor-Riomhaire · 20-10-2021 5:32pm

On the N63 outside Roscommon town. Just spoke to NBI guys who said that my premises is the last place in Roscommon to be cabled. Roscommon is now fully fibre cabled and they are moving on to Wexford. They said that splicing will be complete in 2 months. He Reckons everywhere will be finished and connected by Christmas, early January.

Mor-Riomhaire · 20-10-2021 5:37pm

Also, they ran fibre down my pole which heads off along other poles out of town. The guy said that there is a junction box at the bottom of my pole and that they would install a DP when I request a connection. I thought that they would have run fibre back up my pole ready for connection, but this does not appear to be the case. Does this sound right?

I suppose if the junction box is at the bottom of the pole, then would a DP be needed? Could they just run a cable from the junction box, up the pole and directly into the house? Does this happen?

NBAiii · 21-10-2021 1:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118041326#Comment_118041326

Here is the number of premises in each DA as of September 2021. Normal caveats apply, may change with surveys etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1xTq_SYQu01eDTZAGz6B5gBEwSieFB7cI/edit?usp=sharing&ouid=100941741901554401120&rtpof=true&sd=true

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118049253#Comment_118049253

Generally all required distribution points will be installed during the build process. I've never heard of a DP being installed after an order, the end user installers would not have the equipment or training required.

There may be a distribution point to be fitted in an underground chamber at said pole, but without knowing your specific circumstances it is hard to be precise. Your end connection will come from a distribution point, whether it is under that pole or on another pole further away. Only when you order will that end fibre cable (the drop) be run.

Mor-Riomhaire · 21-10-2021 8:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051510#Comment_118051510

Thanks for the reply. There are two fibre loops hanging from the top of the pole at my neighbour's house which is about 70 metres away. I don't have any ducting and my telephone line was connected from the pole to my house until mid-summer last year when a local farmed brought it down cutting the hay.

Given the size of the manhole below the pole, it is most likely that the neighbour's DP will be connected to whatever is in my trench. I saw them running the cable from this to my neighbour's pole underground 2 weeks ago.

So with that in mind, would they just run a cable from the DP in the trench, up the pole and into my house?

moc1985 · 21-10-2021 9:14am

Got my fritzbox modem today in prep for installation for the 01/11

Thank f**k , years of imagine and to finally get fibre to the home will be a game changer

Oatfield ballinasloe

Tommy Lagahan · 21-10-2021 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118048309#Comment_118048309

"Joining gaps in Eircom 300K and extending it to 'gap areas' (DECC say NBI received 5 tenders for this work. Could be fibre extensions or wireless. Pilots due to start next year. "There's always going to be a next premises" says DECC.) "

I'll be watching this closely...

There's a wild slap of houses just off the end of the rollout they did here though, its almost farcical how many houses they passed but didn't go up the lane to so they couldn't be connected. There's always going to be a next premises indeed, especially when Eir either arbitrarily stopped half way down a road or didn't go up laneways to houses just off that road. For my house I can kinda understand, 1KM up a dead end (after coming 10KM out of the town...) but there was loads of houses 50-100m off the road with the fiber on it down the road from me that couldn't get connected.

heavydawson · 21-10-2021 10:10am

According to their current rollout, the following 9 DAs will be ready for connection (assuming earliest range) by the end of 2021:

Sligo (Dec 21 - Feb 22, 2513 premises)
Roscommon (Nov 21 - Jan 22, 3591 premises)
Dundalk (Oct 21 - Dec 21, 2770 premises)
Kilcoole (Dec 21 - Feb 22, 2836 premises)
Carlow (Nov 21 - Jan 22, 3544 premises)
Tipperary (Dec 21 - Feb 22, 3316 premises)
Tralee (Nov 21 - Jan 22, 3167 premises)
Killarney (Nov 21 - Jan 22, 3382 premises)
Wexford (Nov 21 - Jan 22, 3745 premises)

The existing RFO DAs (The dark green areas in the NBI map) add up to a total of 23592 premises

The additional DAs above add up to an additional 28864 premises.

This brings the total (RFO, and estimated RFO) premises that under ideal circumstances could be passed by end 2021 to 52456

Based on the range, and rollout speed to date, it's more likely that the 52456 number will only be valid for Feb 22 (the latest range for the DAs where the estimated connection range starts in 2021)

So by their own numbers, there's no way they'll hit 60k, and if I had to guess, it'll be more like 30-40k by Dec 31st (Total finger in the air stuff by me)

heavydawson · 21-10-2021 10:24am

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/oireachtas-tv/video-archive/committees/4795/

Here's the recording of the committee meeting yesterday

Agent Avenger · 21-10-2021 10:32am

I’m beginning to get worried again, the last few hundred houses in the Carrigaline DA are supposed to be connected between Dec-Jan but there’s still no fibre cables up and the nbi site still says network build in progress and not open to pre-orders. I occasionally see an nbi or kn van around but I haven’t seen them working anywhere. We were originally supposed to be connected between Nov 20-Feb 21.

heavydawson · 21-10-2021 11:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052218#Comment_118052218

Tipperary DA is due DEC-FEB and we're not open for pre-order either. There's fibre in a lot of places (for months) but I haven't seen the DPs I'd have expected at this stage. That said, in theory with Feb being the end of the range, they have until 30th November before they could change us to pre-order without pushing the connection date range out again.

Strettie11 · 21-10-2021 11:56am

Final Chapter.....

On Monday finally installed with fibre. With Netgear Mesh network I had I am able to get a minimum of 400Mpbs throughout the house on the 500Mbps Digiweb product. This compared to the 3 internet products I had Sky landline 3Mbps, Vodafone wireless anywhere between 10MBPS and zero, and in emergency Three mobile

The install on Monday was not without issues and there seems to definitely be a disconnect on what KN will do for NBI installs with 2 crews even disagreeing on whether they would enter our attic. first crew refused , second crew arrived and said no problem !!

Mor-Riomhaire · 21-10-2021 12:02pm

@NBAiii Thanks again for answering my question. Luckily, another NBI guy showed up here today to inspect the work from yesterday. He was really helpful and a nice guy. He looked up my premises on his device and told me that I would be connected to the DP in the trench, up the pole and into my house.

Importantly, he mentioned that all of Roscommon will be pre-order by the end of November 21, as this is when they hand it over. He did add, that this does not mean live, but he was hopeful this would be before the end of the year.

eirlink · 21-10-2021 12:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052610#Comment_118052610

For clarity, all of Roscommon is only Roscommon town and surrounding townlands, not Roscommon county.

heavydawson · 21-10-2021 12:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052575#Comment_118052575

Great stuff @Strettie11 ! Delighted it all worked out in the end. Better late than never

Mor-Riomhaire · 21-10-2021 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118052756#Comment_118052756

Yes, sorry. Only the ones that can be found in a map of the previous post which shows the Ribbons.

Keepitclean · 21-10-2021 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118051897#Comment_118051897

Will be great to have. Hopefully its a smooth install.

Got mine as well today for install on November 1st.

Lads in and around for KN stringing more fibre on the poles today.

Clontuskert, beside the national school.

moc1985 · 21-10-2021 5:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118053859#Comment_118053859

I was out clearing ivy and cutting trees and branches today from around the pole that it's going to be coming from coming into the house 🏠

I want it to be same day job if possible

Redriddick · 22-10-2021 8:35am

Manhole outside my house was replaced with a bigger one yesterday. I had assumed they would as the one there was very small. Lads splicing iut there again this morning.

I had a quick look at my "eircom" Box on tha gable of my house, and then in the attic. Wire for phone come from attic down to box but they will not move so I think I'm in bother.

From manhole on road to box in gable is sound but from box in gable to attic is not gonna work so I'm in a bit of bother there............

Pique · 22-10-2021 9:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056255#Comment_118056255

They could run from the box on the gable to an entry point and drill through the wall and mount the ONT on the inside then perhaps? Like the SIRO guys do from the ESB box.

Redriddick · 22-10-2021 11:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118056382#Comment_118056382

Perhaps yes but I will be doing a bit of recon over the weekend!!

Dceng2 · 22-10-2021 4:05pm

They were back our way again this week putting up Distribution Points (They still have a few more to do). All the standard NBI DP's... except for the last one at the end of the run. It's very much what I call an "Open-Eir" Distribution Point but with NBI labels. I'm just wondering if NBI are using multiple Distribution Box Models?

National Broadband Ireland : implementation and progress

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