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Tax relief if working from home. Discuss.

  • 15-10-2021 8:09pm
    #1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭


    For the majority, from what i can see, working from home means;

    -childcare savings.

    -meal cost savings.

    -commute time savings.

    - commute cost (fares, fuel, vehicle wear and tear) savings.

    -lets face it; not being directly supervised, so some autonomy and quality of life (walk the dog/swim/coffee on the prom..).

    I do not buy the perceived extra energy usage cost weighed against above. Keeping a nice ambient can sometimes equal the cost of ramping to heat a complete structure.

    I have not met one individual who has claimed that it has been financially disadvantageous to work from home.

    And they now give a tax relief?

    Post edited by Andrea B. on


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    people were told to work from home, this is their reward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    I don't know of any that required their being asked twice.

    There are many of their colleagues who could not work from home as the boilers required stoking.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,083 ✭✭✭afatbollix


    And you forget the costs of working from home like:

    Heat and power, Mine has gone up quite a bit since I starting to work from home.

    How about equipment to work correctly, You can't work at the kitchen table for 8 hours a day.....


    All your savings are in time or things that I could have brought from home anyway.

    Also if you don't need childcare while wfh you're not doing your job right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 69,544 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Plenty of people dislike working from home full-time. I was offered it 5 days a week in a previous job (in 2018 so not a whiff of this current predicament) and turned it down - was happy with 2, weirdly 3 wasn't an option - 2 or 5 only!

    Anyway - I see this as the state providing something employers should be doing. Employers can and will be adapting their office environments to save money having less staff in - less floor area, less heating/cooling costs, less cleaning costs, lower water rates etc etc. They can provide for WFH staff in various ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,605 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I thought we want more people to work from home no?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    True, but is it really tax relief they are looking for, or actually need, weighed against existing benefits i outlined?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    If you incur a cost which is necessary to do your job, then it’s tax deductible.

    It’s always been like that.

    This is nothing new.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Can you read my post in full and consider the actual savings, for many, of wfh?

    Leaving aside quality of life benefits?

    Maybe it is those who travel to work and incur the costs (relative to those who wfh) should reap the relief?

    By your argument, if i have a crash on way to work, my employer/state should cover my losses, as i was not given option of wfh, whereby i would not then have been exposed to the risk?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    It’s got nothing to do with savings. Everyone’s situation is different.

    costs necessary to do your job are tax deductible. As has always been the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    True. Everyone's situation different. My argument being, from my experience, the majority are saving financially from wfh.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    That’s true. But it’s got nothing to do with the tax relief. Nor should it have.

    some people have a 50 km commute to work, where others can walk. They still pay the same tax.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭An Ri rua


    "By your argument, if i have a crash on way to work, my employer/state should cover my losses, as i was not given option of wfh, whereby i would not then have been exposed to the risk?"


    If you have a crash on your way to

    work, and suffer personal injury, there is a social welfare payment for that coded for in public payrolls at least. Can't recall it but, yes, when journeying to or from work, directly in a single journey, you are your employer's concern.


    Edit: Injury Benefit

    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dfb66f-operational-guidelines-injury-benefit/#accidents-while-travelling-to-or-from-work


    As a footnote, yes, it could get quite interesting regarding financial damages as a result of a crash on the way to work if that employee was granted Injury Benefit and had also previously made a claim for WFH and been denied it. Maybe even had a WRC in progress. Could see that evolving casuisticly into a decent possibility.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Again, my argument is that wfh financially and from a quality of life perspective, suits the majority (key word), of those who are wfh.

    So why give further tax incentive?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Thanks. Something i never knew wrt travelling to your permanent place of work, so a bad example from me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    I would disagree with "plenty" but agree with "some", based on your feedback, but outside of you, never having known of one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,605 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    I think it has already been explained - if you incur a cost to do your job, it is tax deductible. People are taxed the same regardless of the benefits their employer offers in working hours. WFH might have quality of life benefits, but since when has quality of life outside working hours been considered a taxable benefit in kind?

    If you want to get down into the nitty gritty, Ireland is trying to achieve reduced carbon emissions. If people can work from home and by doing so not congest motorways or increase emissions by travelling unnecessarily, then there is a rationale for a tax incentive. However, that is not what is happening - people are just being given the same right to deduct work related expenses.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,823 ✭✭✭Allinall


    It’s not an incentive. It’s no more than anyone is entitled to, and always has been.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    So let me be transparent regarding my own situation when it kiced in.

    All members of my team were given option of wfh when covid kicked in.

    For obvious reasons, those with young children ( and some without) availed of it.

    I and some others assisted business needs by staying on site to ensure gaps were filled and worked hard in doing so. No issue here, my kids older and happy to ensure business continuity, while allowing those with personal challenges to know that.

    On one aspect alone, that being fuel, I calculate that some of my colleagues saved approx €3k on fuel alone. Leave aside childcare/afterschool.

    Bitter pill seeing my tax payments being now rebated to them without their savings being reconciled against claims.

    No issue with anything until i hear of colleagues now discussing these tax benefits they will be claiming.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭notAMember


    what the actual… coffee on the prom? You pure layabout.


    I’ve lost a room in my house that I previously let out to a lodger.

    power , heat and broadband use gone up.


    im effectively renting out office space to my employer for free.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Totally agreeing with your right to claim against those losses, when reconciled against gains, in your specific situation.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    And what about the benefits that those who have to attend the 'workplace' will have if those that don't need to attend the 'workplace' don't and work from home?

    Less traffic, commute times reduced, better air quality, increased access to parking and perhaps more depending on the specific situation.

    I'm WFH most of the past 18 months and while there were some savings on childcare initially (as they weren't open) that has gone now.

    That said I work in a place with free parking, relatively cheap canteen and a relatively short commute at a time of the morning with lesser traffic. So yes everyone is different. Some people withe big commutes are saving a lot of time and expense and perhaps expense with meals out etc but at the same time I do think those that WFH should get some support to enable them WFH as it really is better for most people.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭kippy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Our industrial estate carpark is at 50% occupancy compared to pre-covid.

    The Galway city traffic is as bad as any pre-covid. Weekends included.

    All out driving and spending their wfh covid savings. IMO.

    Including the drive of kids to school, instead of bus, as again, it is a quality time advantage of wfh, which i would avail of if clocks were back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,781 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Again, that would very much depends on you individual circumstances. Had to be in the office for 8 this morning, was in in 15 minutes, would normally take 25 to 30 pre covid.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Read my post. Last line. I stated that i have and the reasons why.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    And i experience same for an 8 start, but not for a 9 start, which i assume Is school run related vs children taking bus, due to a parent having flexibility of wfh ( i have done during my wfh days, albeit with grumpy teenagers, but every grunt is a bond imo).



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,636 ✭✭✭dotsman


    Guys, in the grand scheme of things, the wfh tax allowance is just a mindless political gesture. It's worth sweet f.a., but allows the TDs think they will get votes for it as we rack up a quarter of a trillion euro in debt.


    For those who say they had/have to spend money to wfh, the difference to your bills will likely be insignificant. For those who spent money doing up a home office (and I say this as someone who spent 2K on furniture and décor converting a spare bedroom to an office) - that was your choice, likely small in the grand scheme of things and a once off. If you think we deserve tax breaks for wfh, then you also have to argue that we deserve tax breaks for buying cars, petrol, lunches, coffee, suits etc when we work in the office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭Vestiapx


    To be clear I worked every day in my place of work ' stoking the boilers' but I recognise the people that turned their homes into offices .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    And i, but i argue, that for most, the financial savings outweighed or equalled the costs and any claim for compensation for cost should be reconciled against saving.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    There's extra heating costs, energy costs, for people at home all day long. not everyone has a large spare room to make a hi tech home office with room for a desk , monitor. If you are using zoom you might need extra lights a camera and audio equipment. Also it reduces rush hour traffic , oil and petrol use , air pollution , I think working from home is the future, it might be many people will go to an office 1 or 2 days a week

    If workers get a tax credit I see no problem with that also it reduces rush hour traffic jams everyone tends to go to work between 7 am to 9 am. It may make it easier for some mothers to work from home and also take care of children

    Many company's have discovered most work can be done from home



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    My kids are past the childcare stage. I bring my own lunch into the office. I cycle commute.

    I have no WFH savings, just additional costs for light, heating, broadband,furniture plus the loss of my spare bedroom.

    The tax relief is a very small recovery of a small part of the extra costs.

    Really, the employer should be paying me rent out of the considerable savings they will be making on office space over the coming years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Your employer should be paying rent for you to stay in your own house? And will you provide the necessary requirements to fulfill the rental agreement with your employer? What if your employer decides they want someone else to occupy your space for business needs. I mean it's a rental agreement after all and the company can decide how to use that space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Why shouldn't they pay rent? I can't use the room as a spare bedroom now. I had to get rid of the bed to fit the desk (bought at my own expense) in. They're going to be winding down on office space commitments over the coming years with this hybrid model, probably cutting office space and associated costs by half. Lots of rental agreements have conditions about how the space can be used, so having a rental agreement isn't handing over all rights and controls. If I'm losing a bedroom for ever, they should of course be paying for that space.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    I presume you have demanded your employer pay rent or are you just ranting here on boards about it? What did they say? You seem like you are very unhappy where you work. Might be time to move jobs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,487 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    -meal cost savings.

    Yes. I no longer eat since I work from home, save a fortune 🙄

    Scrap the cap!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    I already submit a smallish % of mortgage as a business expense on my taxes, I've worked from home for several years now. I'm not sure if you can do that as an employee?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Many do save on food when wfh.

    Economies of scale if purchasing and cooking for a few vs buying out or in a work canteen.

    Not by having to resort to abstaining like yourself.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,203 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack



    People who didn’t normally work from home were asked by Government to work from home where possible. For this inconvenience they were compensated in the form of being able to claim tax relief on utilities where they wouldn’t normally have been entitled to claim tax relief on utilities because they weren’t normally working from home. That’s all it boils down to.

    Whatever individual savings or extra costs incurred by working from home are the responsibility of the individual, not the Government.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,487 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Not comparing like with like.

    A lot of people bring lunches to work. If I make a sandwich at home, it doesn't matter whether I eat it in the office or at home, it still costs the same.

    I could nip out for a big dirty breakfast roll when wfh if I wanted.

    Most people eat their main meal in the evening at home, doesn't matter if they are wfh or not.

    Many subsidised work canteens are cheaper than you would pay for takeaway food, some cheaper than cooking it yourself.

    Also, sarcasm fail on your part.

    In short, stupid thread is stupid.

    Scrap the cap!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,965 ✭✭✭Andrea B.


    Thread topic opinion aside, the sarcasm was initiated by you.

    "Yes. I no longer eat since I work from home, save a fortune 🙄"



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    No you cannot.

    Not even if you have to rent a separate office because your home is not large enough to WFH in.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Ah, the oul Owen Keegan 'let them eat cake' defence. Suppose I should have expected that around here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,253 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    What about the people who cycle or walk to work, pre covid, should they pay more tax since they dont have commuting expenses?

    Your argument is simply missing 1 vital ingredient, logic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There has been a tax relief for sometime. Its just slightly increased.

    Im not sure what you dont buy about extra energy cost.

    Use of laptops, pcs, monitors, printers, charging work phones, increased use of own lights, kettle etc.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,104 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    Not necessarily. Many people also had to purchase work desks and chairs.

    This tax credit is tiny so I dunno why you are moaning to be honest.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,329 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Have you or have you not asked your employer to pay you rent? It's a simple question.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    How do you have childcare savings? if you are working from home then you are working.

    You can't have a load of kids running around, if someone has children in creche etc it doesn't matter if they are in office or at home the kids still go into the creche. It was accepted during covid that you had kids in background because of the situation, now childcare is open it is no longer accepted. So no childcare saavings

    Saving on food? people bring lunch's into work all the time, you don't have to go out everyday for lunch so that is personal choice, I also know people who WFH but will drop out to a cafe etc that is close to gran lunch.

    You need to buy and create and office in your house, as someone mentioned sitting at a table for 8 hours aint going to work.

    The main advantage is commute times, but then again you will find people work longer hours at home because they dont have 1-2 hours sitting in a car.

    You have to heat/power/cool etc your house now instead of going into an office. You are using electric instead of a companies electricity. As far as I am aware if your company contributes towards these costs then the tax saving goes or is reduced. This is what it is for. Simple.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,451 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    It's not all about me. There are bigger issues at play here.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Many company's have discovered most work can be done from home

    They've also confirmed the concerns about lack of productivity, issues with security, etc. There's been a movement to portray wfh as being the next wonderful step for society, with many of the problems being downplayed or dismissed entirely.

    There's also the social/psychological problems whereby many people enjoy/need the community of working with others, because they have little of that in their private lives, which would be compounded by shifting everything to the home. For many people who have moved to the cities (change of scenery, get away from family, access to employment or infrastructure, etc), the workplace provides a place for them to meet others and form friendships, which can be difficult to achieve otherwise.

    TBH I suspect we''ll see a skew of negatives arising due to this push for wfh to become normalised. It's suitable for some people (their personalities, and individual circumstances) but for many others, it just isn't healthy or convenient.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Most companies are going hybrid, very few are auddenly pushing a 100% WFH



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