No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward

07-10-2021 4:15pm

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/movies/a37867192/how-daniel-craig-changed-james-bond/?utm_source=pocket-newtab

Don't agree with the Skyfall love personally but a fair opinion piece on the Craig era.

07-10-2021 5:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987600#Comment_117987600

Because after refusing Leiter initially, he finds out about the existence of "Project Heracles" from Nomi / new 007 later that evening.

007 was either monitoring Bond and/or Leiter we are supposed to assume.

He then changes his mind and agrees to help Leiter as he knew from the past what sort of area Obruchev was working in and realises how dangerous it could be after having a secret project running advancing the research for years since in "Heracles".

This was all of course in Jamaica, where Bond was living.

The action moves to Cuba later.

micks_address · 07-10-2021 6:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989152#Comment_117989152

i enjoy skyfall the most out of Craig’s outings.

07-10-2021 6:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989689#Comment_117989689

You can certainly have that opinion of course.

I just found the M / Bond Mummy complex thing too long and too nauseating and just didn't buy it.

In fact the moment the setting moved up to the "Skyfall" house in Scotland it just went off a cliff for me.

Before that the Silva villain I didn't find convincing at all either - too cartoony, even for a Bond villain.

FunLover18 · 07-10-2021 6:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989581#Comment_117989581

After I posted that it did occur to me that maybe she was tailing Leiter but it wasn't really made clear as when we first see her she's interacting with Bond, not Leiter. It's also strange that if she is tailing Leiter she doesn't know the name of the guy he's with and has to rely on Bond later for Ash's name. He also only decides to take the job after speaking to M which she provides him the phone to do unbeknownst to M.

07-10-2021 6:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989723#Comment_117989723

She's not gong to know the whole CIA org chart and he's a new guy isn't he supposed to be (Ash).

You're watching the wrong series of films if you're looking to nit-pick details like that really!

buried · 07-10-2021 6:39pm

The action set pieces are very very good. Best opening scene for a long time in one of these things, once it gets going after the graveyard. Another action set piece later on in foggy woods is also very very well crafted. But once again, way way way too much of the emotional, useless back story, with this morality familia humanising bull$hit going on. Fair enough, there's not as much as the last couple of Bond films, but way too much of this $hite is still there, and weakens what is supposed to be a action film to a one that doesn't really know what it is at all. Trying to bring in emotive elements to make you empathise with a character such as James Bond is just plain ridiculous and there is no need for it, if this shtick wasn't in it, it could have structured the film down to a really enjoyable 100-110 minutes.

FunLover18 · 07-10-2021 6:59pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989761#Comment_117989761

I don't think it's completely outlandish to expect a Bond movie to make sense, the later Craig era movies have been overly convoluted in order to facilitate Bond's arc. Why is she trailing Leiter anyway, because he might go after the scientist? In which case yes I would expect her to get ad much detail on who he is travelling with and what other agencies are involved. It's a clunky scene that is there primarily to introduce the new 007 character and create tension between her and Bond, all of which could have been done in Cuba. The movie is way too long and one of the reasons is the writing and the inability to streamline scenes and plot points.

07-10-2021 7:12pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989834#Comment_117989834

M16 would obviously know that Bond, its most illustrious former agent, lives in Jamaica.

If they become aware that Leiter is going to Jamaica, coincidentally just after the London lab incident, it would be pretty obvious that there is a connection.

Makes sense to me.

MisterAnarchy · 07-10-2021 7:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989834#Comment_117989834

It baffles me how Purvis and Wade keep getting asked to write the scripts for the Bond films, they are terrible writers.

All of their films since Casino Royale have had rewrites by other writers.

They werent supposed to be writing NTTD either until Boyle left and a new script was needed.

breezy1985 · 07-10-2021 7:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989996#Comment_117989996

Bond movies like many other blockbusters are written by committees of marketing agents (or Manatees) things like dialogue don't seem to matter

FunLover18 · 07-10-2021 7:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989899#Comment_117989899

Well they didn't know where he was, M says as much. They thought he was dead (again) in which case she must have been tracking Leiter. But correct me if I'm wrong, she already knows that the scientist is going to be in Cuba at that stage, no? It seemed to me that the only reason she was there was to warn Bond to back off.

Honestly this is just the tip of my nitpicks :D

07-10-2021 7:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117990056#Comment_117990056

As said, any Bond movie ever will have nitpicks if it's crazy plots, gadgets that don't exist, villains that could have easily killed bond etc etc

You don't like the movie.

I get it.

Wedwood · 07-10-2021 10:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987491#Comment_117987491

Officially that’s the story that was put out regarding Dalton’s exit and that’s fine, it suited both sides to say it was by mutual consent. You’re right that Dalton was contracted for 3 movies. In reality License to Kill underperformed and audiences hadn’t really warmed to Dalton. A six year legal battle followed and by the time they got through this and we’re ready to go again, Dalton was approaching his 50’s and EON wanted a fresh start, so Dalton was given a dignified exit by ‘resigning’ from the role. In the meantime Brosnan was finished with Remington Steele, finally allowing him to take up the role EON originally wanted him start at Living Daylights.

El Gato De Negocios · 08-10-2021 7:16am

Saw it last night and really bloody enjoyed it.

Is it a good Bond movie?

Who's to say, but I've been a Bond watcher and fan for more than 35 years and I enjoyed this the most since I first saw Licence to Kill so I'll let others cast their judgement on that question.

I don't care that Craig's final outing wasn't "typical" Bond fare, I was entertained throughout and it absolutely did not feel like a 2 and a half hour movie.

One I'll definitely watch again at some point.

micks_address · 08-10-2021 7:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991331#Comment_117991331

I enjoyed it but did feel it was long. I think it would have been a bit more interesting if they expanded the storyline between Madeline snd saffin. Did she end up living with him after etc? The felix storyline and the Logan ash guy served very little purpose.

Lefty2Guns · 08-10-2021 8:08am

Saw it last night too and enjoyed it, although it could have been done in less time.

Don't get me wrong, there was some cringey moments in the film and can understand why DC wanted no more of Bond.

If your going into the cinema to expect to see a masterpiece you will leave disappointed.

BrookieD · 08-10-2021 8:49am

Just seen this last night.. film for me was a 4 out of 5. good Bond film, good action, Lynch was a good character, went in cold so end was a surprise. My take on it and being a big bond fan is a hard reboot. James Bond 007 will be back in a new film with new M, Q, Moneypenny etc... Lynch will NOT be a new Bond... she maybe a good 00 but Bond she is not. Also before the woke brigades take pot shots.. A black women should not take over as James Bond... However if you want a black female 00 agent working for MI6 flying all over the world to fight crime then develop and write a dam good story, I defo would see it but Bond is a Male, he can be white, black, asian but he is a male so leave it there.

micks_address · 08-10-2021 8:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991562#Comment_117991562

i mean in fairness would we expect a male wonder woman? i agree james bond is man.. 00's can be anything. Just fluting about on youtube last night watching craigs US interviews and the hollywood star presentation.. clip from 15 years ago when he was revealed as bond was there.. picture quality terrible but interesting to look back.. looking forward to seeing how they reveal the next bond. The movie should have been out 18 months ago so you'd wonder if they have already been working on the next iteration

08-10-2021 9:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991577#Comment_117991577

Unfortunately there are some people out there who would like to see a Wonder “Person” and a Super”Person” and a J Bond - it beggars believe but there ya go

Fandymo · 08-10-2021 10:26am

Saw it last night. Thought it was awful. Set up for a female Bond. Baddie with no back story. More a romance than a proper Bond movie. Loses his love, gets her back, turns into sensitive Bond, saves the world. ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Shoehorned black 007 killing the scientist after dragging him for miles through tunnels avoiding getting shot etc, the constant "what 00 is he?" when she finds out he's reinstated, is she a spy or a child? The best behaved child in the world, who sits quietly as her mother and a stranger go off-roading whilst being shot at, doesn't cry, whinge or fuss when removed from her mother etc. And henchmen who are as good a shot as white storm troopers.

FunLover18 · 08-10-2021 10:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991936#Comment_117991936

Ah here, I didn't like the movie either and I have nitpicks with the story but everyone knows henchmen can't aim for ****.

Dades · 08-10-2021 10:56am

I wonder if the Lashana Lynch and Ana De Armas roles were swapped, would anyone complain about another 007 agent being "shoehorned" in?

Fandymo · 08-10-2021 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992066#Comment_117992066

Whoa edgy!! The female Ghostbusters were the same ethnicity as their male predecessors, was still shite and complained about shoehorning women into male roles.

micks_address · 08-10-2021 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992105#Comment_117992105

i have to say i'd like to see De Armas more so than lynch in any future iterations... might be an interesting choice of character to live on in the next cycle of films... the next felix?

MisterAnarchy · 08-10-2021 12:10pm

I've spoken to a few friends who went to see it and 2 said they enjoyed it and the other 2 said it was terrible rubbish/expletives.

One friend who is in his 60's and a huge Bond fan said it was the worst Bond ever and a waste of a tenner.

The 2 people who liked it are younger and wouldnt be as big Bond fans .

Its very divisive.

08-10-2021 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992432#Comment_117992432

You either buy the Lea Seydoux character here or you don't.

That's how it falls basically.

I didn't care for her in Spectre so was expecting to dislike this movie but unexpectedly found her much more compelling here.

She might have drawn me in from that scene walking around in just a shirt or cashmere top or whatever it was in the hotel in Italy!

08-10-2021 1:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992105#Comment_117992105

The thing is, this seems like users trying to push a cultures war narrative in on it. Most haven't come away with the conclusion you have.

Dades · 08-10-2021 1:23pm

Can't disagree with the above. The Swan/Bond relationship didn't not work for me in Spectre, but in NTTD actually gave the story depth and stakes. (Other opinions available).

And the cashmere top did the experience no harm of course.

MisterAnarchy · 08-10-2021 2:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992712#Comment_117992712

There is alot more to it than Lea Seydoux I'm afraid.

08-10-2021 2:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993159#Comment_117993159

I mean if you buy into the relationship arc you will like the movie overall (and not start niggling on minor plot points)

if you don't you won't

conorhal · 08-10-2021 6:52pm

Well, just back from No Time to Die.... (no time? You took 3 feckin' hours.. grumble..)

It was ....OK.

I'll spare you the nit picks (verisimilitude and Bond have never been friends and thus neither have I) but I do have one big bone to pick with that ending, OK two.

Firstly, never, and I mean never give an actor that has no desire to play a role again a say in the script. It never works out. It didn't with Sigourney Weaver in the Alien franchise and you just knew when Harrison Ford was all smiles during his Force Awakens interviews what was coming. Actors are narcissistic pricks and should be told to shut up and hit their mark and never let anywhere near a screenplay.

The Craig era stormed out of the gate with a home run in Casino Royale, by far my favorite Bond movie because, verisimilitude. The stakes were refreshingly no higher then F'ing over an arms dealers money laundering scheme and it was great.

This would have been a middle of the road Bond movie for me, with it's dumb McGuffin and tiresome end of the world stakes, if it didn't insist on ending with a wet fart. And the reason it's a wet fart of an ending is because, if you're gonna go there, if your gonna play that hand, you had better have a top tier villain to justify that. That's my main bone of contention. Safin is just so unmemorable that he does not in any way shape or form justify that ending.

Now if they had an actual arc for the character of Bond thought out they would never have killed Vesper Lind and would have had her disappear instead with the money in Casino Royale and then subsequently reprise her role instead of the charisma and chemistry free Lea Seydoux (anybody saying that character is reprieved in this is just nuts) and of course had a better villain, then you could have made this film work. Instead you have miserable Craig making narcissistic choices and a wet fart of an ending.

It will probably make a billion dollars though so what do I know.

MisterAnarchy · 08-10-2021 7:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117994590#Comment_117994590

Couldnt have said it any better.

Homelander · 08-10-2021 7:42pm

I think, to be fair, the entire point is that NTTD is more so about Bond and his own personal journey above all else, certainly far more so than it is about the, or indeed any, villian.

It is completely fine to not like that take, or to feel the take was done poorly, but it is what it is. You have the classic locations, the villians, the gadgets, the call-backs, and of course, the women, so in one sense it ticks a lot of boxes some previous Craig movies have not.

But fundementally it is a story about James Bond, the entire narrative is built around 007 as an actual human being, flawed and imperfect, emotional, capable of love as much as hate, rather than a simple stereotype that has typically dominated the titular role.

It's also perhaps an attempt to put that traditional "dinosaur" to bed on the best possible terms, not that Spectre or NTTD are subtle about the characters sell-by-date.

It worked for me personally, and I am a big Bond fan in general and think Craig's Bond has proven to be really up there. Even with the misfires, like Spectre, he carries hard with sheer presence.

Not to say I liked everything about NTTD - it definitely has flaws, but the overall direction and aim of the movie resonated with me. For me, it was a genuinely magnificent Bond movie and I'd almost be content for the franchise to end there.

OU812 · 08-10-2021 11:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117989689#Comment_117989689

Agreed, apart from the train scene, it’s a fantastic movie.

sonic85 · 09-10-2021 3:27am

That was a flipping horrendous watch. Really really didn't like this movie.

Villain had no menace - was more like a pantomime figure than a proper Bond villain. His main henchman was terrible - totally forgettable.

The plot was pretty much nonsensical - the whole family thing was tacked on rubbish and makes absolutely no sense to try pin that to the character of Bond. Trying to soften up a man that's supposed to be a hardened killer doesn't work IMO and even worse than trying to shoehorn in that storyline was using Lea Seydou as the linchpin for it because she's a useless actor. Monotone with no emotion she has to be right up there with some of the worst Bond girls ever.

Bringing a child into Bonds world doesn't really sit right with me either I have to say. If it was going to add something to the series I'm sure writers would've done it a long time ago - with the amount of casual sex Bond has had over the years he must have 10 or 15 kids running around!

The "new" OO7 was quite frankly brutal. She was ineffectual as a field agent and to be honest not believable as any kind of operative. The praise for de Armas is baffling to me for a couple of different reasons - firstly because she's only on screen for a matter of minutes and secondly because like Lashana Lynch she's just not believable as a field agent. The writers had her take out three fully grown men at the same time in hand to hand combat which is ludicrous really. Her appearance was pretty much just a cameo - was she even required? I think myself she could've been written out entirely with little or no difference to the story.

Bond himself should've been dead a few minutes in and also near the end. Like I know a certain amount of suspension of disbelief is required but when someone is within a couple of feet of a bomb or a grenade going off you'd fully expect them to die. Bond is supposed to be a good agent but not immortal!

The running time was mammoth in length and really you could have shaved a half an hour off this film with no issues.

As regards what I enjoyed - the cinematography was beautiful the action set pieces were pretty good and for the most part well executed and the cars were sublime. Especially really nice to see the Vantage back - love that car ever since I first saw it in The Living Daylights!

09-10-2021 9:29am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117996284#Comment_117996284

I agree about the immortal thing- keeping your hero alive throughout an action movie is a skill you need to perfect as a director- there’s a very small line between a close shave or a series of believable coincidences well presented onscreen that keeps audience engaged and your hero on the right side of death and downright “Terminator” territory where nothing will kill JB- of course we suspend reality when we go to see a JB film but we don’t expect to do it at a Marvel comic level

Patsy167 · 09-10-2021 11:12am

A guide to the recurring actors in all 25 movies of the James Bond series - https://i.redd.it/xwn9or9waas71.png

Mad_maxx · 09-10-2021 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117992712#Comment_117992712

Was Lea Seydoux the ( permanently sulky) female character in Spectre ?

Hated her

09-10-2021 7:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117998556#Comment_117998556

I very much disliked her character in Spectre myself but bought the story in NTTD

Your mileage may vary but if you don't go in with the attitude of giving it a chance you'll definitely get the result you expected

And this movie should be seen in the cinema (for reasons of spectacle and due to the modern smartphone-induced mass ADHD that its running time does not go well with!)

Dades · 09-10-2021 10:10pm

Much as I surprisingly bought in to the romance in NTTD, I watched Casino Royale last night on ITV4 and saw a Bond love interest how it should be written. Vesper is sexy, smart, vulnerable and has an actual secret. She should have been the one to crossover Craig's movies, in more than just a picture or a reference.

FunLover18 · 09-10-2021 10:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999029#Comment_117999029

I was listening The Filmcast and one their criticisms (a fairly common one) is that despite obviously wanting to do an overarching story, they never actually planned one. One of the guys suggested that if they had they could have given Vesper an "is she really dead" exit and brought her back for this.

martingriff · 09-10-2021 11:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999122#Comment_117999122

Funny enough when he was going to her grave that thought did enter my head

Dades · 10-10-2021 1:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999122#Comment_117999122

Sounds like the recent Star Wars trilogy. No coherent plan.

But to be fair, Casino Royale was brilliant, so you can forgive them for winging it after. It was always going to be hard to follow up Vesper.

Spook_ie · 10-10-2021 4:34am

All I'll say is nanobots and electro magnetic pulse watches, surely they don't mix well?

flasher0030 · 10-10-2021 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117998572#Comment_117998572

I cannot remember anything about Spectre. It was never a film that I said to myself that I would ever revisit.

But for NTTD, is there a continuation from Spectre. Would it make sense to go into NTTD, having rewatched Spectre.

Ger Roe · 10-10-2021 10:32am

Saw this on Friday ..... just OK.

It seemed to me like someone (Craig?) was trying to distance themselves from the successful standard format of Bond, as much as possible. I watched his BBC interview on the red button and when I heard him talking about how much input he had into the whole project, I started to get worried - just act like you are told to do. I don't know why the producers would give him so much influence over their long and carefully crafted product.

The new female 007 agent was tokenism as far as I could see, no need for it. There was very scant almost unnoticed reference to and use of, the standard Bond music theme - plenty of opportunities in the action shots to throw in a good loud dum, dit,ti dum, di dum ti - but none taken. There were references to the old movies timeline, but then new introductions and info that totally messed it up - where does the legacy history of Bond lie now with this ending and the new characters and relationships?

In the end, I was disappointed ..... and confused. I waited right till the end of the credits to see 'James Bond Will Return'... I started to think of how? but I am not sure if I care.

Ger Roe · 10-10-2021 10:35am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999547#Comment_117999547

That and when he blew up the baddies bionic eye with the watch, we were obviously supposed to forget that Bond himself was wearing a radio receiver earpiece that should have exploded into his brain too.

10-10-2021 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117999988#Comment_117999988

I would say that you don't need to watch spectre before nttd

Spectre is such a bad movie that I wouldn't tbh

And nttd handles it in a way that there is nothing missed by not seeing spectre recently

gmisk · 10-10-2021 11:20am

I really enjoyed it I have to say.

Yes it is too long, but I wouldn't want to lose too many parts of it.

Maybe not quite as good as casino royale but probably my second favourite Daniel Craig bond film.

8/10

The good

The first big action set piece.

The chemistry with Ana De Armas, enjoyed that whole section

Christoph Waltz

Loshana lynch and the other supporting characters in MI5

Actual deaths

The Bad

Rami Malek I honestly think he is kind of an awful actor, as were the other villains bar waltz

The runtime

Some sections felt a tad computer game like, especially a section on some stairs.

The constant use of we have all the time in the world...was really distracting.

No Time to Die **Spoilers from post #1449 onward**

Comments

No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward