N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

user1842 · 14-06-2021 12:14pm

Reuben1210 wrote: »

Yeah all true, but M28 was bogged down with NIMBYism, like everywhere in Ireland if anyone wants to develop anything that runs through an established suburb, the NIMBYs come out to thwart any development. It's a huge problem we have here!

It's funny how things work out. The N26 was supposed to be dual carriageway to Bahola but was rejected by An Bord Pleanála as being over the top. 15 years later Westport to Castlebar gets a dual carriageway and it has similar traffic levels to the N26.

Go figure, at least they are fixing the worst part of the N26, although many parts are bad.

yop · 14-06-2021 2:38pm

Great to see this happen. As someone who drove Westport Dubin 2-3 times a week for work during the 2008-2011 that road is such a busy and dangerous route. You could do 10-15kms behind a truck and not get a spot to pass.
Surprised that its not dual or at least have multiple passing out lanes. Of late I had been going via Tuam as its a much easier drive though longer but as I own an EV I'd be back using this new N5 again no bother.

All roads are full of string pulling and politics, for once we have fallen on the right side of it.

KrisW1001 · 14-06-2021 4:26pm

Type 1 Single carriageway is still a pretty high quality road. 3.65 m lanes with 2.5 m shoulders, combined with the longer view of the road ahead you’ll get from the new alignment would make it fairly easy to pass trucks and such, even if they don't pull in for you.

lotusm · 14-06-2021 5:14pm

KrisW1001 wrote: »

Type 1 Single carriageway is still a pretty high quality road. 3.65 m lanes with 2.5 m shoulders, combined with the longer view of the road ahead you’ll get from the new alignment would make it fairly easy to pass trucks and such, even if they don't pull in for you.

If this road was ever to upgraded after type 1 single carriageway to say dual carriageway is that a huge modification and does the TII take that into account when doing this which I assume they do

DumbBrunette · 14-06-2021 5:57pm

I always take the M17 and N60 to get to Westport. It takes about the same time as the N5 but I find myself far less tired afterwards.

I tried the R332 to Kilmaine and R330 Partry to Westport route once but never again, it's just too horrific!

KevRossi wrote: »

It's not just the traffic level that counts here. The stretch from Strokestown to Frenchpark is very dangerous, there have been a fair few people killed and seriously injured on it over the years. I think that was one of the reasons it was pushed. I don't have the stats as to deaths or injuries per km compared to other roads, but it's up there.

I agree some of it is political pushing, I mean it took them years to bypass the lights at Newland's Cross and at Lucan on the N4 and they had a serious amount of traffic.

Incidentally, I know it's anecdotal, but a fair few Mayo people I know take the M6 to Athlone and then go N61 and N60 via Roscommon to get back to Mayo as it's faster and safer than the N5. And more recently the M6 to Athenry and M17, N17, N60 to Castlebar. Again, they just perceive it to be safer and it's pretty much just as fast.

yop · 15-06-2021 9:08am

DumbBrunette wrote: »

I always take the M17 and N60 to get to Westport. It takes about the same time as the N5 but I find myself far less tired afterwards.

I tried the R332 to Kilmaine and R330 Partry to Westport route once but never again, it's just too horrific!

That road Tuam to Kimaine is a death trap when you have done a long day. I tried that like you but never again.
I tried Claremorris Ballyhappiness a few times into Roscommon but what I found was that if I am leaving at 5.30am I go up the N5 route and down the motorway as the other road is just too busy.

KrisW1001 · 15-06-2021 9:19am

lotusm wrote: »

If this road was ever to upgraded after type 1 single carriageway to say dual carriageway is that a huge modification and does the TII take that into account when doing this which I assume they do

A lot depends on the amount of land granted to the sheme. The paved (i.e., tarmac) width of a Type 2 DC is 4.2 m wider than a Type 1 SC, but a Type 2 requires an additional pedestrian/cycle way alongside. I imagine enough land has been requested to allow for a 2+2 if it’s ever needed.

But I don’t see a need for any upgrade in the next 20-30 years here. The traffic volumes on this part of N5 are low: just 5,500 AADT [peaked in 2018]. Even allowing for all the people who take alternative, longer routes to avoid this stretch of N5, the total traffic will not double for a very long time. It would need to more than double to justify a 2+2 road.

We have so few routes built with consistently good single carriageway in this country that it's often hard to accept that this road type can ever be an adequate solution. Even when we had good single roads, the huge number of entrances allowed on them made driving more difficult than it had to be. But that doesn’t mean that single carriageway roads can’t be good roads.

As an example, take the N22 from Cork County bounds to Killarney. That road has traffic levels of about 6,000 AADT (more than this bit of N5), but is a properly-built single carriageway with good sightlines and overtaking opportunities. This N5 scheme would be slightly better than that one, in that it’s an entirely offline build, and so would have fewer residential entrances.

user1842 · 15-06-2021 3:02pm

KrisW1001 wrote: »

A lot depends on the amount of land granted to the sheme. The paved (i.e., tarmac) width of a Type 2 DC is 4.2 m wider than a Type 1 SC, but a Type 2 requires an additional pedestrian/cycle way alongside. I imagine enough land has been requested to allow for a 2+2 if it’s ever needed.

But I don’t see a need for any upgrade in the next 20-30 years here. The traffic volumes on this part of N5 are low: just 5,500 AADT [peaked in 2018]. Even allowing for all the people who take alternative, longer routes to avoid this stretch of N5, the total traffic will not double for a very long time. It would need to more than double to justify a 2+2 road.

We have so few routes built with consistently good single carriageway in this country that it's often hard to accept that this road type can ever be an adequate solution. Even when we had good single roads, the huge number of entrances allowed on them made driving more difficult than it had to be. But that doesn’t mean that single carriageway roads can’t be good roads.

As an example, take the N22 from Cork County bounds to Killarney. That road has traffic levels of about 6,000 AADT (more than this bit of N5), but is a properly-built single carriageway with good sightlines and overtaking opportunities. This N5 scheme would be slightly better than that one, in that it’s an entirely offline build, and so would have fewer residential entrances.

I hope the land take around the roundabouts is enough to upgrade them to offline junctions/overpasses in the future, if traffic levels increase. Looking at the maps it does not appear to be the case.

15-06-2021 7:57pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

M20 for a start, as mentioned.
N22 Ballyvourney - Macroom should have been done years ago, higher traffic levels than most of the N5. Getting done now though.
N25 Midleton - Youghal. Terribly overcapacity. Should be done before this really, but not on the agenda even.
N2 Slane - I appreciate there has been controversy here, but it should have been pushed much, much harder by politics.

Enda Kenny pushed the Ballaghdereen Bypass higher up the pile than it really needed to be.
The Castleisland and Tralee bypasses were done waaaay out of order to satisfy the Healy-Raes and get their votes on board.
As mentioned on this thread, Michael Ring has been pushing for this scheme for ages and it's happened. But its hard, in a way, that two N5 schemes are getting done at the same time when there are, lets face it, more deserving schemes out there at the moment. Why did this one get through the statutory processes so quickly when other schemes (M28) get so badly bogged down? The M28 should have been pushed much harder by politics from the very start.

I'm not begrudging the N5 this upgrade, its badly needed. But I've been following road developments in Ireland for about 15 years now and politics absolutely does come into it.

You know why the M28 was so bogged down: NIMBYism. That's not the fault of government, Mayo, Roscommon or anyone else. It's the fault of some dim-witted dúmáns of locals who chose to delay and deny it for as long as possible. Should local politicians have advocated more strongly in favour? Yes. It's not like there's a shortage of TDs and senators for Co. Cork, let alone that specific constituency. There are 18 TDs representing Co. Cork. Obviously politicians will play local politics when it strategically suits them. Perhaps Cork people should be more strategic in who they vote for. I was staying in Mid Cork last summer. Several locals astounded me by saying there would be no need for a bypass of Macroom ''if the Kerrys weren't over here working in Cork City''.

We see the same nonsense in Dublin, where people are supposedly above and beyond parochialism:

BusConnects: delayed because of loss of parking spaces, delayed because of trees, trees being bandaged with yellow ribbons like as if they're being expelled as refugees, objections because of new bus routes, complaints because of fewer bus stops, objections/'representations' about a perceived loss of service.

Metrolink: Delays and faux outrage sprayed all over the media because a GAA Club would lose pitches. A leading government minister and then sitting Taoiseach got involved. Bear in mind this is in one of the wealthiest and most influential areas in the country.

Complaints about underground shafts. Objections, leading to delays, about the route. Complaints about where it should start. Complaints about where it should end. The cancellation of a section of the route due to innumerable objections that were aired as nauseam on national media. Complaints about lane closures. Objections about *too many trains* potentially coming to a certain area, leading to less opportunity to drive...

You mentioned the Slane bypass. More whataboutery, objections and needless pissing about wasting time are the reasons why it hasn't been developed. Asides from this, the M1 runs parallel only a few miles east so there is an alternative route.

N25 Midleton - Youghal is over capacity but it's still safe. Locals need to make it a political issue if they want to see progress. That's how these things work, but in the order of priority, safety has dominated major road schemes recently and that's a good thing.

This needless begrudergy when areas get infrastructure is tiring. Do I begrudge Wexford for having a motorway and full bypasses of all their major towns? No, I don't because they were needed and Rosslare to Dublin benefits us all. Nor do I begrudge any area getting modern, safe infrastructure because it saves lives, creates jobs and makes this country a better place to live in.

Those people who actively decide to deny themselves and their communities such infrastructure need to be countered by those who do, both socially and politically. In the case of the M28 and those examples I listed above, that unfortunately didn't/isn't happening.

In Mayo and Roscommon, people voted strategically for these issues via lobbying and canvassing their elected representatives. That's called being smart and using your vote wisely. More importantly, they allowed the N5 projects to be processed through the planning system unhindered by not needlessly objecting to something that would benefit them, despite the failed attempts by An Taisce and others to do so.

We need to stop being petty about these things. It's childish, regionalist, parochial and tribalist. All of the projects currently going through planning that I'm aware of, bar maybe a stretch of the N2 currently being designed which seems a bit needless, are warranted. End of.

hardCopy · 23-06-2021 12:59pm

KrisW1001 wrote: »

Type 1 Single carriageway is still a pretty high quality road. 3.65 m lanes with 2.5 m shoulders, combined with the longer view of the road ahead you’ll get from the new alignment would make it fairly easy to pass trucks and such, even if they don't pull in for you.

Hopefully the alignment is decent. The new Ballaghaderreen bypass is awful for overtaking compared to the older Charlestown & Swinford section.

VR6 · 25-06-2021 11:19am

HabibiLibneni wrote: »

You know why the M28 was so bogged down: NIMBYism. That's not the fault of government, Mayo, Roscommon or anyone else. It's the fault of some dim-witted dúmáns of locals who chose to delay and deny it for as long as possible. Should local politicians have advocated more strongly in favour? Yes. It's not like there's a shortage of TDs and senators for Co. Cork, let alone that specific constituency. There are 18 TDs representing Co. Cork. Obviously politicians will play local politics when it strategically suits them. Perhaps Cork people should be more strategic in who they vote for. I was staying in Mid Cork last summer. Several locals astounded me by saying there would be no need for a bypass of Macroom ''if the Kerrys weren't over here working in Cork City''.

We see the same nonsense in Dublin, where people are supposedly above and beyond parochialism:

BusConnects: delayed because of loss of parking spaces, delayed because of trees, trees being bandaged with yellow ribbons like as if they're being expelled as refugees, objections because of new bus routes, complaints because of fewer bus stops, objections/'representations' about a perceived loss of service.

Metrolink: Delays and faux outrage sprayed all over the media because a GAA Club would lose pitches. A leading government minister and then sitting Taoiseach got involved. Bear in mind this is in one of the wealthiest and most influential areas in the country.

Complaints about underground shafts. Objections, leading to delays, about the route. Complaints about where it should start. Complaints about where it should end. The cancellation of a section of the route due to innumerable objections that were aired as nauseam on national media. Complaints about lane closures. Objections about *too many trains* potentially coming to a certain area, leading to less opportunity to drive...

You mentioned the Slane bypass. More whataboutery, objections and needless pissing about wasting time are the reasons why it hasn't been developed. Asides from this, the M1 runs parallel only a few miles east so there is an alternative route.

N25 Midleton - Youghal is over capacity but it's still safe. Locals need to make it a political issue if they want to see progress. That's how these things work, but in the order of priority, safety has dominated major road schemes recently and that's a good thing.

This needless begrudergy when areas get infrastructure is tiring. Do I begrudge Wexford for having a motorway and full bypasses of all their major towns? No, I don't because they were needed and Rosslare to Dublin benefits us all. Nor do I begrudge any area getting modern, safe infrastructure because it saves lives, creates jobs and makes this country a better place to live in.

Those people who actively decide to deny themselves and their communities such infrastructure need to be countered by those who do, both socially and politically. In the case of the M28 and those examples I listed above, that unfortunately didn't/isn't happening.

In Mayo and Roscommon, people voted strategically for these issues via lobbying and canvassing their elected representatives. That's called being smart and using your vote wisely. More importantly, they allowed the N5 projects to be processed through the planning system unhindered by not needlessly objecting to something that would benefit them, despite the failed attempts by An Taisce and others to do so.

We need to stop being petty about these things. It's childish, regionalist, parochial and tribalist. All of the projects currently going through planning that I'm aware of, bar maybe a stretch of the N2 currently being designed which seems a bit needless, are warranted. End of.

Well said HabibiLibneni. I totally agree. The snails pace at which some of those projects are progressing (or not) is depressing. In the case of the Dublin public transport projects it's inexcusable. I left Ireland over 30 years ago, but I've heard the same projects being re-packaged and re-announced countless times since I was a teenager.

Mind you, Ireland is not alone in this regard. Democracy is the best system we have, but it should serve the greater good, not the selfish desires of small minorities.

yew_tree · 02-07-2021 11:29pm

There is always begrudgingly bullsh1t from the rest of the country when anything is built west of the Shannon.

Fact is the west has to fight tooth and nail for everything it gets.

Cookiemunster · 02-07-2021 11:44pm

yew_tree wrote: »

There is always begrudgingly bullsh1t from the rest of the country when anything is built west of the Shannon.

Fact is the west has to fight tooth and nail for everything it gets.

Let's be honest. The West is very sparsely populated compared to the rest of the country and has actually done very well (especially on the N5 thanks mainly to Enda being Taoiseach) compared to areas with higher population densities with similar needs.

03-07-2021 2:20am

More factually inaccurate and nauseatingly stereotypical whataboutery.

If you're going to compare to Leinster, that's a non-runner where counties like Laois, Louth, Kildare, Kilkenny and Wexford have effectively bid goodbye to their historic bottlenecks, single carriageway roads and deathtraps, with only a few minor exceptions, Slane being a notable one, Celbridge with its single bridge is another, but it's still bypassed completely. The one road that stands out is the N4 Mullingar to Longford - the road to Sligo, Leitrim, Mayo and North Roscommon.

If you're comparing to Munster, it's already been explained and debated via multiple fora on this site why Munster is so behind on notable road projects: planning permission lapsed during the recession for the likes of the M20, and NIMBYism, which seems acutely strong in this region, held up/is holding up the likes of the M28. Even within Munster, counties Clare and Waterford have generally very good or excellent primary/secondary roads and/or motorways. Kerry County Council has proven itself to be very proactive in addressing accident blackspots, dangerous bends and poor alignments of national secondary roads. Other councils should take note of this.

Cork, Kerry and Limerick stand out for some major bottlenecks and inadequate roads, but equally these 3 counties benefitted hugely during the boom, with motorways to Limerick and Cork, bypasses of Tralee, Castleisland, Patrickswell etc, plus all the towns bypassed by said motorways such as Fermoy, Nenagh, Cashel.

The West didn't receive anything like this during the boom. Bar the M6, N4 Rooskey to Carrick, the N17 Knock to Claremorris and N4 Collooney to Sligo, there were no major road projects for some years until the M17/18, which arguably benefits Limerick and Clare more than Galway, certainly more than Galway City.

The West, which would include Donegal too, is getting infrastructure it needs and is entitled to. All projects meet TII guidelines, including project cost benefit analysis, population density, urban connectivity and future growth projections as per demographics and Project Ireland 2040. The idea that Sligo Town, Castlebar or Ballina are sparse backwaters vis-à-vis Tralee, Adare or Charleville is laughable nonsense and only proves you have some sort of grudge against the region based on false, stereotypical, classist and ahistorical biases and prejudices.

paulbok · 03-07-2021 8:22am

I was chatting to someone working on the new Sligo rd and what he has heard is that once that is completed, Road Bridge will be moving plant south to setup compounds any haul road, and start on the couple of structures to be built.
Sligo rd due to be finished for August bank holiday but they are unlikely to make that date due to a delay in stuff like signage and crash barriers arriving.
Start of September a more likely date.

There is a bridge needed to cross a small river a couple of hundred metres from the Scramogue tie in but will require a lot of ground make up to it, so can see that getting under way before the winter kicks in.

20-07-2021 11:18pm

Any official confirmation on when this is starting?

paulbok · 22-07-2021 8:44pm

Aug 12th is the target date now for the Sligo rd. A lot of workers working through the builders holidays to meet that target, so will be taking leave afterwards. Unlikely much will happen before the beginning of September.

DumbBrunette · 29-07-2021 9:48pm

Contract award still not announced, but good to see jobs on this project being advertised already.

On the job · 01-08-2021 9:10pm

its taking a long time to get this road going

is the contract for construction signed yet

On the job · 01-08-2021 9:10pm

its taking a long time to get this road going

is the contract for construction signed yet

BelfastVanMan · 02-08-2021 7:35am

Have a read at a few of the previous posts..

On the job · 02-08-2021 10:11am

I have read the posts

just nothing public about the signing

and if Roadbridge are doing it they seem to be in no hurry to get going only they have a certain time frame to complete the job from the signing date

Pete_Cavan · 02-08-2021 5:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694252#Comment_117694252

The actual contract sign usually happens after the project has started, often based on Minister availability. The contract is formed before that through a Letter of Acceptance, the contractor has 20 working days to start from then under GCCC contracts which I assume this is.

spacetweek · 02-08-2021 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117692942#Comment_117692942

As paulboc says above, this will likely start in September.

cheerylemon · 03-08-2021 9:28am

Well good, Tulsk is just a mess.

paulbok · 06-08-2021 10:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117698153#Comment_117698153

As Christy Moore sang, "Mountbellew was like purgatory, but Tulsk, was just like being in hell"

BelfastVanMan · 07-08-2021 6:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117694252#Comment_117694252

Well then read them again.

irishgeo · 07-08-2021 9:44am

Are there many bridges on this project?

What's the expected completion date?

On the job · 07-08-2021 10:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718516#Comment_117718516

No I won’t

DumbBrunette · 07-08-2021 2:08pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117718831#Comment_117718831

I posted this upthread a few months ago. Just 4 road over or underbridges. Construction will take about 3 years once it starts, so maybe late 2024.

EDIT: This update was in the ROD AECOM summer newsletter: Roadbridge Ltd has been contracted by Roscommon County Council to undertake the main construction works. The letter of acceptance of the Roadbridge Ltd tender was issued on 16th June and the time for completion is 36 months.

" It includes 16 T-junctions, but only 4 grade separated road crossings. I would imagine the cost of additional grade separation was difficult to justify given the relatively low traffic levels expected. We're fortunate enough that the entire scheme is type 1 - this had to be justified by the designers by stating that it was desirable to have a consistent cross section along the whole N5 (except W-T obviously)."

DumbBrunette · 07-08-2021 2:38pm

BelfastVanMan · 11-08-2021 6:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117719078#Comment_117719078

Please yourself.

However, you'd find the answer you're looking for there.

Idiot.

😏

On the job · 13-08-2021 8:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117739291#Comment_117739291

I will and I don’t need you to tell me what to do keep your little childish remarks to yourself

Yellow belly

veryangryman · 13-08-2021 11:44pm

I miss the busier road threads. These name calling posts while fun to read would be called out quicker.

Oh well... if ye can't beat em join em.. everybody who reads this is a nincompoop!

BelfastVanMan · 14-08-2021 9:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117749322#Comment_117749322

I'm sorry?

BelfastVanMan · 14-08-2021 9:14am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117750454#Comment_117750454

I second that. (The first part, just.)

😂

cheerylemon · 15-08-2021 11:12am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117751057#Comment_117751057

I also second that. The first part only, though.

DumbBrunette · 13-09-2021 10:58pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/248013

Contract award notice. Total value 134.6 million euro, excluding VAT.

Chris_5339762 · 14-09-2021 10:45am

Not too bad for 30 odd km of new build road.

About the same price as Dunkettle!

14-09-2021 11:03am

Will this start soon?

KrisW1001 · 15-09-2021 9:04am

Yes, Dunkettle is very good value for money, when you look at it that way: for the price of 30km of single-carriageway through sparsely-populated countryside, we’re getting a live upgrade of the busiest traffic interchange outside Dublin, with a dozen major structures, all carried out in a confined site.

On the job · 19-09-2021 2:21am

at long last construction seems to be going a head

grate to see some movement on this project

spacetweek · 19-09-2021 5:07pm

N4 Castlebaldwin has been complete for some time. What's taking so long to get underway here?

hondar · 27-09-2021 9:58am

Any machines on the ground on this job yet?

paulbok · 27-09-2021 1:59pm

Not seen any yet.

francis1978 · 03-10-2021 10:20pm

Guys, interesting thread, I have applied for one of the Designer's Rep jobs for the project, would have a solid background, any idea what Sweco are like to work for and what kind of salary would be offered?

Thanks in advance

04-10-2021 11:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117944251#Comment_117944251

Nope, not a thing started yet...

marno21 · 04-10-2021 12:10pm

Starting in Q4 2021 as per the NDP.

04-10-2021 1:32pm

Screenshot_20211004_132834.jpg

Roscommon Co Co must be delighted they got this over the line on time. They may well have had the strategic cop on to see what was coming down the line. Only a few years ago, An Taisce were proposing the project be scrapped in favour of an upgraded N4 route from Carrick to Tibohine via Ballinameen and Frenchpark. That, or they wished to scrap it altogether through delay tactics.

DumbBrunette · 06-10-2021 1:21pm

https://westernpeople.ie/2021/10/06/contracts-signed-for-e200m-n5-road-project-in-roscommon/

Official contract signing has taken place. Taoiseach to 'turn the sod'.

N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

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