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N5 - Ballaghaderreen to Scramoge [underway]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Some welcome aerial shots courtesy of Roscommon County Council. Not sure of the exact locations.



  • Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,976 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    not sure about the second 2 but I think the first one is along the road from Strokestown to Elphin



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 82 ✭✭TnxM17


    Yes, you are correct regarding the first picture - its Lugboy, between Elphin & Strokestown. That is the R368 that's in the foreground and the shot is facing southeast. Works on the road are visible on Google street view taken in May.

    Second photograph is taken right above current N5 at Cashel between Frenchpark & Bellanagare. The view is to the east of the current N5 looking towards southeast. Again, Google street view shows work on road.

    Third photograph is at Dungar outside Frenchpark looking towards the northwest. The L5629 is in the foreground and in the background is where the new N5 will tie in with the existing N5. Google street view of works here.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,839 ✭✭✭prunudo


    Love it when photos start appearing on infrastructure threads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 552 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    Will there be overtaking lanes on this new stretch of road? I’d be a firm believer in looking to the future. I don’t believe any new national primary road should be anything less than a 2+2 dual standard as per Turlough-Westport.

    The traditional wide road with a hard shoulder each side is just as dangerous. I see it every day, overtaking slow vehicles, oncoming traffic pulling over on their side. It’s mental stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Don't think there are many if any overtaking lanes but I could be wrong.

    Agreed on the SC point. That's why Type 2 DC's have become more favourable than SCs in many locations. Much safer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,340 ✭✭✭MayoSalmon


    Ah its the most Irish thing ever and does my head in.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,603 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This road is currently carrying 5.8k AADT for 2024 at Frenchpark. That's bang on 50% capacity of the new road when built, assuming traffic volumes stay the same (local traffic will keep to the existing N5, but certain traffic may now prefer the N5 if they were going via the M17 before etc). It wouldn't really make sense to build a 2+2 here given the additional width and bridging costs etc.

    The horse has well and truly bolted on this one but an alternative may have been to either:

    a) upgrade the N17 from Tuam to Claremorris and a major upgrade to the N60 between Castlebar and Claremorris and route N5 traffic via the M17/M6. The existing routing is only 10 minutes longer than the existing N5 route and would also have been a major upgrade for Galway/Limerick/Cork → Mayo traffic. It wouldn't have helped for Ballina based traffic though

    b) upgrade the R370 and route the N5 to the N4 at Carrick on Shannon instead of Longford. This was the plan B should the archaelogical issues at Rathcrogan have proved impossible to overcome. This would have been c. 22km and the remainder would be upgraded as part of the N4 Mullingar-Longford and Carrick-Dromod schemes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    In relation to point a), a newish bus service, the 721, already uses the route going from Castlebar to Dublin Airport via Claremorris and Tuam and using the motorway from there on. It also takes advantage of the recently upgraded N60 between Claremorris and Balla.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    The AADT figures and capacity are not always the drivers for DC upgrades. The new offline Westport Turlough N5 route was built to DC standard for safety reasons not traffic volumes. The same logic can apply to the N17 which is one of the most dangerous roads in the country. It would also signal that the government is serious about balanced regional development by linking the 2 biggest population centres in the west.

    I agree that the DC ship may have sailed for the foreseeable future but it's important to clarify the various reasons for roads are upgrades.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 552 ✭✭✭yew_tree


    I live on an L road in south Mayo and since the M17 opened the traffic increase is very noticeable as motorists now use various local roads outside Ballinrobe/Kilmaine/Shrule/Hollymount as rat runs to zig zag their way into Tuam and onto the motorway.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    The section bypassing Tulsk is a good distance from the existing crossroads. I'm guessing this means the crossroads ain't getting upgraded to a roundabout



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    I wonder if once the new N5 is completed, could we see a change of priority to that junction in Tulsk? With the Roscommon to Boyle road becoming straight through and the downgraded Strokestown to Ballinagare getting junctions?

    Probably would still need some sort of realignment works to do that safely.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I was thinking the same thing. Might stay away from it the first few weeks until the locals get used to it 😄



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,693 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Probably cheaper to build a roundabout.

    Given the state of the effort roscommon coco got for the roundabout at Bealnamulla, I'm not optimistic



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 89 ✭✭Covieland




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    One of my main concerns with this project has always been that it would get bogged down, literally, due to deep peat excavation. I assumed this was one of the reasons for the long construction timeframe of 4 years.

    I came across a map today which shows this actually shouldn't be a major issue, which is great news.

    The new N5 will run south of Frenchpark, then across to Elphin and down to Strokestown. The only area where it will run through peatland is near Frenchpark, and only for a short distance. Hopefully this increases the odds that this project will be completed far sooner than the 4 year contract period.

    Map extract courtesy of Teagasc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    I have in-laws where the new road crosses the R369, and he was speaking with one of the engineers recently. General chit chat on how they were getting on, as they looked back towards Strokestown the engineer said " back that way is as good as ground conditions as you can get. Looking the other way, he said it's pretty much the worst".

    Some boggy land as well to traverse around the back of Strokestown Park house out towards the Scramogue tie in, which hasn't been touched yet and could throw up some curveballs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    I'd have assumed most of the route was bog and marshland too. If that's not the case I think there's a very good change it will be done ahead of schedule. Wills have often completed projects ahead of time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Must be nearly 1 year of the project gone by now? Think it was September contracts were signed (but could be wrong). They were slow getting started after that as well.

    Correction: it was November.

    Strokestown to that R369 junction (~8 to 10km) should be straightforward, though they do have a section of hill outside Strokestown to level out/terrace.

    The 3km or so back from Strokestown to Scramogue has a bit of bog to traverse and two bridges to build. I've a suspicion that as they haven't started work on that section yet, they may leave the bulk of it until the spring, concentrating resources on the boggy ground over Frenchpark side.

    I'd hazard a guess it'll be open around Easter or early summer 2027 unless disaster conditions pop-up.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,654 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    Same as the N5 around Castlebar. Probably looking for a compo payment.

    Some fella bought a house near the breaffy exit of the N5 when the works had started and complained every week about the noise of the construction works and got the house CPO.

    Nice little earner that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    Those issues are an unfortunate but unavoidable side effect of road projects. The residents on the eastern side of Castlebar had genuine grievances when rock blasting went on far longer than initially planned.

    But the road will benefit the residents in the long term if they can stick with it. 'Cars being destroyed' and talk of 'prisons' is typical opportunistic hyperbole from county councillors. They can look after their electorate without resorting to such sensationalism.



  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Opportunistic hyperbole is how councillors keep their names in the local press. Nothing is ever merely a problem; everything is a catastrophe.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Just passed the works on the R368 and there is a flyover going up there for the new road.

    I'm pretty sure that wasn't on the original plans, I have it in my head there was just a set of junctions there.

    That road from Strokestown to Elphin is closed from next week (Sept 2nd) to the end of November.

    Makes sense though, the less junctions the better and the topography there makes it an easier build than flat terrain



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,654 ✭✭✭irishgeo


    It might a temporary diversion while they do the works.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    The new N5 will cross the R368 via an underbridge, with the junction being further along the road.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Do you have the link to those plans?

    I'd like to check out a few more junctions to see if they've changed.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,638 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    I got them off the ABP site.

    https://www.pleanala.ie/en-ie/case/300493

    Click on View associated documents and look for 03-EIAR-Volume-3-Figs-4-1-4-41



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,125 ✭✭✭user1842


    Crazy amount of local roads connecting to the new N5. Almost the exact opposite of the Charlestown and Ballaghaderreen bypasses and I don't understand why for a new offline road build.

    In my view this will just lower the safety of the road.



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  • Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    I thought the same. It will almost be more reminiscent of the Swinford bypass than the Ballaghaderreen one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,196 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    If there is a bridge then they should use to ensure that there are no right turns on the road, having a bridge and not doing this would seem to be an opportunity lost.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    I don't think it was ever a runner to build this project with lots of grade separation, the higher costs would mean the project would fail a cost benefit analysis given traffic figures are expected to be only 4k or 5k.

    The Swinford bypass AADT would be roughly 8k.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,739 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Pedantic correction - the Swinford bypass AADT is 6.6K (6K for the full year of 2023). For comparison the Ballaghadereen bypass is 5K and the Frenchpark number is 6K.

    Your overall point is probably right though about the low numbers not justifying the extra expense of overbridges and GSJs even though they would be safer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    The sunny weather on Friday offered a great opportunity to get a progress update on this project from satellite imagery.

    The Frenchpark bypass looks like the most advanced section. Perhaps it will open ahead of the rest of the project.

    Earthworks well underway between Bellanagare (bottom left) and Elphin, but they haven't started digging in what seems to be a bog east of Bellanagare.

    This will be the grade separated junction with the R368 to the SE of Elphin. There will be a deep curved cutting to the east of the junction which is clearly visible.

    The Strokestown roundabout is also taking on a rough shape. The tie in with the existing N5 will be on the right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    Heard that the road is ahead of schedule at the moment. Going by those images above, progress looks good alright.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,108 ✭✭✭nordydan


    Great pictures. Yes the Frenchpark sections would be the obvious choice to open early, makes sense to prioritise



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,189 ✭✭✭Paddico




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    From a Roscommon photographer's Facebook page. The flyover/ interchange over the R368



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,274 ✭✭✭Bikerguy


    Not fun at all ..

    The trucks are flying through villages 80km/h+ on daily basis and not some small van...but fully loaded heavy toys....the road is absolutely destroyed from Bellanagare to Elphin... Not crying out... But boy i have to clean cars weekly...the amount of dirt on the road is unreal.... I am again not complaining if its going to take the traffic away.... But its like 5 years of torture before we could see the light... The progress is there alright i cant argue....



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,323 ✭✭✭Westernview


    That could be the trade off - faster truck speed leading to an earlier completion versus slow trucks finishing the job later.😉



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    Latest newsletter available here:

    https://n5b2s.ie/wp-content/uploads/2024/10/2684-N5B2S-Newsletter-02-2024-07-WEB.pdf



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    They have started on the Scramogue tie-in section in the last week or so.
    Signs are up on the N5 there waring of construction traffic, but nothing major visible yet, I'd guess they are just setting up a compound their for the works for now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 877 ✭✭✭DumbBrunette


    New pics courtesy of Wills Bros, obviously from a month or two ago but still good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok


    The R368 Strokestown to Elphin road is due to reopen next week on the 10th



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 368 ✭✭pale rider


    often stop for a top class fish n chips in Antonellis but since covid it’s rarely open early enough for me now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,075 ✭✭✭paulbok




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73 ✭✭Westport Covies


    They should be happy that their very short term dusty cars are contributing to the safety of the general public.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,654 ✭✭✭irishgeo




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