What can be done about mass shootings in America?

maeve99 · 01-10-2021 12:56am #1

Just watched a YouTube video of the mass shooting in Tennessee a few days ago and it seems like mass shootings are as normal as talking about breakfast or the weather in America. Terrible situation but it seems that Americans and the world have become accustomed to it.

The question is, can the issue ever be solved? Many say tighter gun restrictions would solve the issue like happened in the UK after Dunblane and Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.

But the issue might be deeper. Many countries have high gun ownership rates (Switzerland), and haven't had a mass shooting in years. It seems moreso cultural.

Does American society just need an overhaul?

Strumms · 01-10-2021 1:15am

Unless guns are kept out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them, there will be mass shootings. That can’t happen unless the 2nd amendment is done away with or changed... being neither of those situations are in anyway likely in our lifetimes you’ll see just as many if not more atrocities... “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

That militia have been rather quiet for 230 years or whatever since that was decreed.. don’t think a single US president has attempted to sign the White House over to the Russians...or sell the pentagon to Mongolia to build an ice rink... however ..

Atlantic Dawn · 01-10-2021 1:16am

Access to guns is the problem, nothing else.

Danno · 01-10-2021 1:30am

Anti-depressants is a big part of the problem IMHO. A fair swathe of the population are on meds for some trivial thing or other.

Capt'n Midnight · 01-10-2021 1:46am

Depending on your exact definition there's roughly 2 mass shootings a day in the US.

And it's not even a gun culture thing as places like Scandinavian, Germany and Switzerland show, they have guns but very few mass killings. On the other hand Australia imposed strict regulations and that more or less stopped mass killings.

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2021/03/23/america-returning-to-normality-with-regular-mass-shootings/

https://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2017/11/16/poll-what-is-your-favourite-us-mass-shooting-so-far-this-year/

There's another article about how the only developed country where this stuff happens is completely powerless to prevent it.

Also most of the deaths in Mexico's drug wars are fuelled by demand in the USA so you can add them to the list

pappyodaniel · 01-10-2021 1:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961509#Comment_117961509

Have you ever watched the ads on commercial breaks in the US? They have nonstop ads for pills for every and any ailment. I suppose our equivalent is our nonstop ads for online betting companies.

Atlantic Dawn · 01-10-2021 2:45am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961523#Comment_117961523

And disclaimers which are insane, basically they can put something like *May or may not kill you.

Tell me how · 01-10-2021 3:34am

It will probably take a monumental catastrophe of 3 figure fatalities to motivate any real change but even so diehard states will look to undermine anything that might appear at a Federal level.

2A advocates are f*cking rabid about retaining it. The ironic thing being that on the day when it could be argued they would have been best justified to invoke it and come out with their guns to protect their democracy was on January 6th this year when the sitting President tried to subvert the Democratic process in order to stay in power. All the 2A advocates were present, only they were the ones trying to assist the President in achieving his goal.

topmanamillion · 01-10-2021 4:30am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961498#Comment_117961498

There's no logical argument against this but the horse has unfortunately bolted on this one. There's 120 guns per 100 American. For context Ireland is around the 7.2 per 100 mark.

To start any sort of meaningful change the anti gun lobby would need to take down the NRA and have their influence on politics outlawed. A massive ask. They're a multi billion dollar lobby backed by very wealthy gun traders with millions of members. They list politicians on their website that support current gun laws and instruct their members to vote for them. In some jurisdictions if you're not on that list you may as well not bother running in an election.

Padre_Pio · 01-10-2021 4:47am

What can be done about them?

Who says anything needs to be done? Most Americans are just fine with mass shootings, so long as their personal freedoms are untouched.

Sandy Hook was 10 years ago. Little has changed.

kirk. · 01-10-2021 5:01am

There's a strong macho culture over there

Doesn't help the 'misfits'

Also they're gun crazy over there , you only have to look at the movies to see it

delboythedub · 01-10-2021 7:03am

While this video is very interesting to watch it does not change my believe that American both government & military place very little value on human life ie their war on terror has killed 800000+ lives in the last 10 years

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE

01-10-2021 7:26am

I have an 11 year old daughter and we have been training in the care and use of rifles through a friend here in Ireland for some time now. And I really enjoy it. My daughter really enjoys it too. And I am quite proud of her skills at being able to do things like load one, aim it, fire it, and hit a difficult target all in under 10 seconds.

But I have no desire to own one myself. At all.

So that is all good. I do not entirely know where I fall on the gun ownership continuum. Wherever I eventually land with my opinion on the issue - it will not be fueled by an anti gun paranoia or dogmatism I sometimes see when this topic comes up.

I do not think complex social issues can be boiled down to any one factor. Saying something like "It's just access to guns and that's that" is attempting to boil a massively complex issue into a single attribute. And I suspect it is that kind of thinking that helps in part to lead us to bad situations in the first place. As was pointed out in the OP - other countries with high gun ownership do not scale the same as the US with problematic results.

It is going to be a mix of everything. Access to guns will be a part of it. How that access is mediated will be part of it. Culture will be part of it. Economics and class issues will be part of it. Racial tensions will be part of it. Mental and medical health regimes and programs and structures will be part of it. Media will be part of it. Education will be part of it. Polarized politics will be part of it. Paranoia will be part of it.

Anecdotally I have talked to Swiss people and American people for example on the subject of their guns and I do not get the "I need to protect my family dude - the bad people could break into my house at any moment dude - I need to be a man and be able to defend my wife and kids and property dude!" mentality from the Swiss nearly as often as I do from the Americans.

So what "can be done" as the OP asks? I honestly do not know. But whatever it is - I suspect it will be based in treating gun violence and mass shooting as a symptom not as the disease.

BobHopeless · 01-10-2021 7:34am

Access to drugs and people's mental health are the main issue not guns.

Ashbourne hoop · 01-10-2021 9:06am

Sandy Hook should have been the moment for change in America, it wasn't. If the mass shooting of 6-7 year olds wasn't enough for change, then nothing will be. Quite depressing really.

banie01 · 01-10-2021 9:13am

Cancel Mass!

There's definitely nothing to be said for another mass!

Feisar · 01-10-2021 9:39am

I understand the 2A activists point of view because giving an inch often starts the slow road to death by one thousand cuts. Ya see it here, currently the EU is proposing a lead ammo ban due to fears of lead poison. It's starting with wetlands however it may not end there. Handguns were taken away from lay abiding citizens here twice, once to fears of the IRA (even though handgun shooting is and still is allowed in NI) and secondly after a gangland shooting in 2013. Both did nothing helpful other than "look we are tough on gunsz."

Now I appreiciate some people just won't see it like that. For instance it took my wife a long time to come around but I've been shooting since I was a pup, a fine rifle to me is like a Gibson guitar to a musician. However yes they can be dangerous.

As to America, people have mentioned anti-depressants, I've read about them handing out pills like smarties and apparently some of them damage the frontal lobe, where the whole right/wrong type part of the brain functions?

And then from what I can see there is a fear thing in the States, I read about a lad that kept a gun in his shower in a tupperware in case someone broke into his home while he was showering. Now in fairness to him the reason I heard of him was because someone did break in while he was in the shower so I suppose he was justified. However when one is in that sort of mindset I believe a sickness of sorts creeps in. If one is at DEFCON 5 at all times it's going to lead to shootings. Lads with shotguns for home defense locked and loaded at the bedside on a special quick access safe for example. Fear breeds fear IMHO. I'd consider myself pretty situationally aware however I don't worry about sitting with my back to the wall in a restaurant so I can see them coming.

Still love my guns though!

Tell me how · 01-10-2021 9:41am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961671#Comment_117961671

Pity the people who are adamant in keeping guns available are also massive proponents of restricting access to healthcare.

Shao Kahn · 01-10-2021 9:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961498#Comment_117961498

The Swiss have access to plenty of guns, they don't seem to be blowing each other away on the regular?

America has a very long standing problem with high levels of violence and aggression in their society. Throw lots of guns into the mix, and you've got a tinder box ready to ignite. The propensity towards violence and aggression, could be considered the bigger issue here rather than the guns.

Guns are problematic, but some countries are just very unsuitable for having a large gun culture.

I would make a similar argument for drug controls. Some countries would be a disaster, if you made addictive drugs easily available and legal to purchase. Ireland possibly being a prime example, as we have shown ourselves to be quite poor at controlling our alcohol consumption etc. Other countries could possibly do okay with relaxed drug or gun laws.

Really depends on the people in question. The general characteristics of your average citizen and their desire to do harm to others or their lack of ability to avoid doing harm to themselves.

RossGeller · 01-10-2021 10:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961509#Comment_117961509

I'm not following. You're saying that being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter?

PeaSea · 01-10-2021 10:05am

Take away the guns. No guns = no shootings. Simple.

kirk. · 01-10-2021 10:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962096#Comment_117962096

There's a flaw in your logic there

Would be gun carnage if they tried to take them away

01-10-2021 10:18am

Further the issue there is the people they most want to take the guns away from - are the ones least likely to actually give them up. When they have a gun amnesty you can be pretty sure that everyone who rocks up and hands a gun in - are the ones that you probably are least worried about having one.

There is more guns in circulation in the US than there is people last time I heard. The horse has bolted on the option of getting rid of the guns. Whatever "solutions" they come up with at this stage will be based on living with those guns - not life without them.

So it sounds like the word "Simple" above should be replaced with "Simplistic". The two words are very different.

lawrencesummers · 01-10-2021 10:18am

If Sandy Hook wasn't enough to bring about the necessary changes then absolutely nothing will.

kirk. · 01-10-2021 10:34am

What's the most dangerous weapon you can buy there now

dudley72 · 01-10-2021 10:37am

Stop selling guns and it will stop a lot of the mass shooting.

Pawwed Rig · 01-10-2021 10:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117961587#Comment_117961587

This exactly. It is their country and they can run it how they like. I am just thankful I don't live there.

If it was such a big problem (for them) something would have been done about it years ago but it hasn't so let them at it.

BobHopeless · 01-10-2021 10:43am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962096#Comment_117962096

Try take away the guns = instant civil war

So no not that simple

01-10-2021 10:47am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117962090#Comment_117962090

I do not want to put words in the mouth of the person you are replying to. But I would say "yes and no" to that question you ask. It is - at with most things in life - more complicated than that.

We certainly know that some medications have potential deranging side effects more than others. Especially if the person taking them mixes them with other medication or things like alcohol.

But I think what the user you are replying to might also be referring to is the "Medicate first ask questions later" tendency in the American Medical System. Rather than address underlying issues or problems - they medicate them and paper mache over the issue. So it is not that "being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter" so much as being put on them in lieu of actually addressing the underlying issues a person might have - fails to avert their path to becoming a shooter.

It has been a long time since I looked at the figures on what % of Americans are on what particular pill or other. But last time I looked the figures were astounding. The drugs that nearly killed Jordan Peterson recently as he tried to come off them for example - the prescription figures for that drug are simply terrifying.

A few people have highlighted the issues of taking ownership of your life - effort and responsibility and accountability - coping with failure and conflict - and much more. Perfectly normal life skills that they feel our species is losing. And the effects of that are merely being medicated with pills like confetti. And they feel that that is an issue. If such people are right then gun violence is a symptom, not the disease. And all the "just take away the guns duuuhhhh" mentalities would then just be too simplistic to take seriously - even if implementing such a policy were remotely feasible or realistic or attainable.

seamus · 01-10-2021 10:48am

@Tell me how wrote:

It will probably take a monumental catastrophe of 3 figure fatalities to motivate any real change but even so diehard states will look to undermine anything that might appear at a Federal level.

If the massacre of children in a school won't change gun laws, then absolutely nothing will. If the World Trade Centre attacks had still killed 3,000 people, but had been fifty Islamic miltants with legally-held guns instead of planes, that still wouldn't have changed gun laws. Instead of "maybe we shouldn't sell guns to anyone", it would have ended up as an effective ban on weapon ownership by anyone with tanned skin and anyone who looked like they might be muslim. Gun sales to rich & white people of course would have continued to skyrocket.

On the whole, the US is a failed entity beyond fixing. The main reason that other countries have open gun laws without the mass shootings is a cultural issue. American culture is what's broken here, not gun laws. American culture rewards selfishness, sociopathy and greed. Honesty, empathy, selflessness and charity without reward are seen as a sign of weakness.

This creates the "every man for himself" attitude that pervades in the US, and ultimately leads to individuals taking matters into their own hands and massacring innocents.

joseywhales · 01-10-2021 11:06am

It's hardly complicated. Rifles and shotguns can be used for hunting and pest control. Handguns, ar15s and others are designed to kill human beings. How can you justify owning a tool to kill a human being?

What can be done about mass shootings in America?

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