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What can be done about mass shootings in America?

  • 01-10-2021 12:56am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 43 maeve99


    Just watched a YouTube video of the mass shooting in Tennessee a few days ago and it seems like mass shootings are as normal as talking about breakfast or the weather in America. Terrible situation but it seems that Americans and the world have become accustomed to it.

    The question is, can the issue ever be solved? Many say tighter gun restrictions would solve the issue like happened in the UK after Dunblane and Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.

    But the issue might be deeper. Many countries have high gun ownership rates (Switzerland), and haven't had a mass shooting in years. It seems moreso cultural.

    Does American society just need an overhaul?



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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,796 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Unless guns are kept out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them, there will be mass shootings. That can’t happen unless the 2nd amendment is done away with or changed... being neither of those situations are in anyway likely in our lifetimes you’ll see just as many if not more atrocities... “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    That militia have been rather quiet for 230 years or whatever since that was decreed.. don’t think a single US president has attempted to sign the White House over to the Russians...or sell the pentagon to Mongolia to build an ice rink... however ..






  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,416 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    Access to guns is the problem, nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Anti-depressants is a big part of the problem IMHO. A fair swathe of the population are on meds for some trivial thing or other.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 92,471 Mod ✭✭✭✭Capt'n Midnight


    Depending on your exact definition there's roughly 2 mass shootings a day in the US.

    And it's not even a gun culture thing as places like Scandinavian, Germany and Switzerland show, they have guns but very few mass killings. On the other hand Australia imposed strict regulations and that more or less stopped mass killings.



    There's another article about how the only developed country where this stuff happens is completely powerless to prevent it.



    Also most of the deaths in Mexico's drug wars are fuelled by demand in the USA so you can add them to the list



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭pappyodaniel


    Have you ever watched the ads on commercial breaks in the US? They have nonstop ads for pills for every and any ailment. I suppose our equivalent is our nonstop ads for online betting companies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 83,416 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn
    M


    And disclaimers which are insane, basically they can put something like *May or may not kill you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    It will probably take a monumental catastrophe of 3 figure fatalities to motivate any real change but even so diehard states will look to undermine anything that might appear at a Federal level.

    2A advocates are f*cking rabid about retaining it. The ironic thing being that on the day when it could be argued they would have been best justified to invoke it and come out with their guns to protect their democracy was on January 6th this year when the sitting President tried to subvert the Democratic process in order to stay in power. All the 2A advocates were present, only they were the ones trying to assist the President in achieving his goal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,382 ✭✭✭topmanamillion


    There's no logical argument against this but the horse has unfortunately bolted on this one. There's 120 guns per 100 American. For context Ireland is around the 7.2 per 100 mark.

    To start any sort of meaningful change the anti gun lobby would need to take down the NRA and have their influence on politics outlawed. A massive ask. They're a multi billion dollar lobby backed by very wealthy gun traders with millions of members. They list politicians on their website that support current gun laws and instruct their members to vote for them. In some jurisdictions if you're not on that list you may as well not bother running in an election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,345 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    What can be done about them?

    Who says anything needs to be done? Most Americans are just fine with mass shootings, so long as their personal freedoms are untouched.


    Sandy Hook was 10 years ago. Little has changed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    There's a strong macho culture over there

    Doesn't help the 'misfits'

    Also they're gun crazy over there , you only have to look at the movies to see it



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 355 ✭✭delboythedub



    While this video is very interesting to watch it does not change my believe that American both government & military place very little value on human life ie their war on terror has killed 800000+ lives in the last 10 years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have an 11 year old daughter and we have been training in the care and use of rifles through a friend here in Ireland for some time now. And I really enjoy it. My daughter really enjoys it too. And I am quite proud of her skills at being able to do things like load one, aim it, fire it, and hit a difficult target all in under 10 seconds.

    But I have no desire to own one myself. At all.

    So that is all good. I do not entirely know where I fall on the gun ownership continuum. Wherever I eventually land with my opinion on the issue - it will not be fueled by an anti gun paranoia or dogmatism I sometimes see when this topic comes up.

    I do not think complex social issues can be boiled down to any one factor. Saying something like "It's just access to guns and that's that" is attempting to boil a massively complex issue into a single attribute. And I suspect it is that kind of thinking that helps in part to lead us to bad situations in the first place. As was pointed out in the OP - other countries with high gun ownership do not scale the same as the US with problematic results.

    It is going to be a mix of everything. Access to guns will be a part of it. How that access is mediated will be part of it. Culture will be part of it. Economics and class issues will be part of it. Racial tensions will be part of it. Mental and medical health regimes and programs and structures will be part of it. Media will be part of it. Education will be part of it. Polarized politics will be part of it. Paranoia will be part of it.

    Anecdotally I have talked to Swiss people and American people for example on the subject of their guns and I do not get the "I need to protect my family dude - the bad people could break into my house at any moment dude - I need to be a man and be able to defend my wife and kids and property dude!" mentality from the Swiss nearly as often as I do from the Americans.

    So what "can be done" as the OP asks? I honestly do not know. But whatever it is - I suspect it will be based in treating gun violence and mass shooting as a symptom not as the disease.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭BobHopeless


    Access to drugs and people's mental health are the main issue not guns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,023 ✭✭✭Ashbourne hoop


    Sandy Hook should have been the moment for change in America, it wasn't. If the mass shooting of 6-7 year olds wasn't enough for change, then nothing will be. Quite depressing really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,932 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Cancel Mass!

    There's definitely nothing to be said for another mass!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I understand the 2A activists point of view because giving an inch often starts the slow road to death by one thousand cuts. Ya see it here, currently the EU is proposing a lead ammo ban due to fears of lead poison. It's starting with wetlands however it may not end there. Handguns were taken away from lay abiding citizens here twice, once to fears of the IRA (even though handgun shooting is and still is allowed in NI) and secondly after a gangland shooting in 2013. Both did nothing helpful other than "look we are tough on gunsz."

    Now I appreiciate some people just won't see it like that. For instance it took my wife a long time to come around but I've been shooting since I was a pup, a fine rifle to me is like a Gibson guitar to a musician. However yes they can be dangerous.

    As to America, people have mentioned anti-depressants, I've read about them handing out pills like smarties and apparently some of them damage the frontal lobe, where the whole right/wrong type part of the brain functions?

    And then from what I can see there is a fear thing in the States, I read about a lad that kept a gun in his shower in a tupperware in case someone broke into his home while he was showering. Now in fairness to him the reason I heard of him was because someone did break in while he was in the shower so I suppose he was justified. However when one is in that sort of mindset I believe a sickness of sorts creeps in. If one is at DEFCON 5 at all times it's going to lead to shootings. Lads with shotguns for home defense locked and loaded at the bedside on a special quick access safe for example. Fear breeds fear IMHO. I'd consider myself pretty situationally aware however I don't worry about sitting with my back to the wall in a restaurant so I can see them coming.

    Still love my guns though!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Pity the people who are adamant in keeping guns available are also massive proponents of restricting access to healthcare.



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭Shao Kahn


    The Swiss have access to plenty of guns, they don't seem to be blowing each other away on the regular?

    America has a very long standing problem with high levels of violence and aggression in their society. Throw lots of guns into the mix, and you've got a tinder box ready to ignite. The propensity towards violence and aggression, could be considered the bigger issue here rather than the guns.

    Guns are problematic, but some countries are just very unsuitable for having a large gun culture.

    I would make a similar argument for drug controls. Some countries would be a disaster, if you made addictive drugs easily available and legal to purchase. Ireland possibly being a prime example, as we have shown ourselves to be quite poor at controlling our alcohol consumption etc. Other countries could possibly do okay with relaxed drug or gun laws.

    Really depends on the people in question. The general characteristics of your average citizen and their desire to do harm to others or their lack of ability to avoid doing harm to themselves.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭ Ivory Pitiful Spike


    I'm not following. You're saying that being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter?



  • Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ Nancy Stocky Ham


    Take away the guns. No guns = no shootings. Simple.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    There's a flaw in your logic there

    Would be gun carnage if they tried to take them away



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Further the issue there is the people they most want to take the guns away from - are the ones least likely to actually give them up. When they have a gun amnesty you can be pretty sure that everyone who rocks up and hands a gun in - are the ones that you probably are least worried about having one.

    There is more guns in circulation in the US than there is people last time I heard. The horse has bolted on the option of getting rid of the guns. Whatever "solutions" they come up with at this stage will be based on living with those guns - not life without them.

    So it sounds like the word "Simple" above should be replaced with "Simplistic". The two words are very different.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,617 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    If Sandy Hook wasn't enough to bring about the necessary changes then absolutely nothing will.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭kirk.


    What's the most dangerous weapon you can buy there now



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭dudley72


    Stop selling guns and it will stop a lot of the mass shooting.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    This exactly. It is their country and they can run it how they like. I am just thankful I don't live there.

    If it was such a big problem (for them) something would have been done about it years ago but it hasn't so let them at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭BobHopeless


    Try take away the guns = instant civil war

    So no not that simple



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I do not want to put words in the mouth of the person you are replying to. But I would say "yes and no" to that question you ask. It is - at with most things in life - more complicated than that.

    We certainly know that some medications have potential deranging side effects more than others. Especially if the person taking them mixes them with other medication or things like alcohol.

    But I think what the user you are replying to might also be referring to is the "Medicate first ask questions later" tendency in the American Medical System. Rather than address underlying issues or problems - they medicate them and paper mache over the issue. So it is not that "being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter" so much as being put on them in lieu of actually addressing the underlying issues a person might have - fails to avert their path to becoming a shooter.

    It has been a long time since I looked at the figures on what % of Americans are on what particular pill or other. But last time I looked the figures were astounding. The drugs that nearly killed Jordan Peterson recently as he tried to come off them for example - the prescription figures for that drug are simply terrifying.

    A few people have highlighted the issues of taking ownership of your life - effort and responsibility and accountability - coping with failure and conflict - and much more. Perfectly normal life skills that they feel our species is losing. And the effects of that are merely being medicated with pills like confetti. And they feel that that is an issue. If such people are right then gun violence is a symptom, not the disease. And all the "just take away the guns duuuhhhh" mentalities would then just be too simplistic to take seriously - even if implementing such a policy were remotely feasible or realistic or attainable.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    @Tell me how wrote:

    It will probably take a monumental catastrophe of 3 figure fatalities to motivate any real change but even so diehard states will look to undermine anything that might appear at a Federal level.

    If the massacre of children in a school won't change gun laws, then absolutely nothing will. If the World Trade Centre attacks had still killed 3,000 people, but had been fifty Islamic miltants with legally-held guns instead of planes, that still wouldn't have changed gun laws. Instead of "maybe we shouldn't sell guns to anyone", it would have ended up as an effective ban on weapon ownership by anyone with tanned skin and anyone who looked like they might be muslim. Gun sales to rich & white people of course would have continued to skyrocket.

    On the whole, the US is a failed entity beyond fixing. The main reason that other countries have open gun laws without the mass shootings is a cultural issue. American culture is what's broken here, not gun laws. American culture rewards selfishness, sociopathy and greed. Honesty, empathy, selflessness and charity without reward are seen as a sign of weakness.

    This creates the "every man for himself" attitude that pervades in the US, and ultimately leads to individuals taking matters into their own hands and massacring innocents.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    It's hardly complicated. Rifles and shotguns can be used for hunting and pest control. Handguns, ar15s and others are designed to kill human beings. How can you justify owning a tool to kill a human being?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    There's loads of sport applications for handguns/AR15 style rifles.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,932 ✭✭✭✭banie01


    Not a justification but it becomes very much a matter of how the 2A has been interpreted by courts stateside.

    The judicial stance has been that the right to bear arms is inextricably tied up in the notion of militia and the right of defence against tyranny. The courts have previously opined that the 18th century notion of defence against same means that the right to bear arms was drafted to mean that weapons of similar capability to Army were needed as otherwise the Militia would be immediately disadvantaged.

    The right to bear arms, and the right to militia to a constitutional originalist, means equivalent personal firepower. It's utterly corrupt legalese IMO, but the US resistance to modernising the Constitution, the difficulty in amendments and the strength of pro-gun lobby makes it impossible.

    The restrictions on full auto and other specific categories tend to all fail the 2A test and eventually get struck down.

    Even weapons that are full auto, suppressed and even actually explosively destructive are available on grant of an NFA tax stamp.

    Lunacy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,078 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    It's not really the primary purpose though is it? Maybe I could be wrong, I'm no expert. Like if they have sport applications then make them incapable of killing people then. Like paint ball or bbs or whatever. You can still do rifle shooting or clay pigeon etc. What makes it more sporting to play with a weapon that's easy to conceal?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I suppose that's the difference, you see weapon, I see a sweet bit of kit. In terms of sporting as long as there is a level playing field between competitors it's sporting. Why handgun vs rifle? Why tennis vs badminton? I can hear you say already, but ones a lethal weapon. Fair, however the latest handgun roundup in Ireland didn't do anything for all the gangland killings.

    For example I'd love a Colt Python, just to do a bit plinking with (informal target shooting). Beautiful looking handgun and I'm not particularly partial to handguns in general. Note that'd but one of the older production runs, not the current model.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Not sure which sport applications Feisar is talking about specifically - but rendering sports equipment nonlethal does not automatically guarantee they can still have a sport application. For example I use some seriously sharp knives when I am out fishing. You can do a lot of damage with these knives to a human being. In fact with the training I have in combat - and knife combat being one of those areas I specifically played with - I could do a lot more damage with a knife than some amateur making pathetic stabby stabby motions trying to poke you with the pointy end.

    If however you rendered my sports equipment non-lethal it is entirely likely you would render them useless for their primary purpose too. I might as well bring a butter knife to gut my fish with and cut my line.

    Further as I said earlier in the thread - the people who are going to line up and take the modified equipment you refer to are likely to be the people least likely to be intent on using that equipment in a harmful way in the first place. It would appear to be an agenda that would result in the most amount of inconvenience for the most innocent majority of society and would affect the people we are genuinely worried about not a jot.

    It's a bit like laws making buying or selling sex illegal. In the presence of such laws - sex work still happens. But by definition the men and women who go to pay for sex are people intent on knowingly breaking the law and disregarding it. The people we most want to visit sex workers - those who respect the law - are exactly the people we keep away from the sex workers door.

    Paradoxically I wonder if much of the gun violence and injury would be reduced if we went the other direction and started training people on gun care and use. Much like how teaching people martial arts reduces their tendency to actually get into fights in the first place - or to hurt themselves and others when they do - actually teaching people the art of injury and violence can reduce injury and violence. I often wonder if the same principle could apply to guns.

    I wonder it enough to the point I have availed of a chance opportunity to teach myself and my (now) 11 year old daughter how to use and fire rifles. And I hope when my son and his younger siblings each turn 8/9 to start teaching them too. And so far I think that choice has been nothing but a 100% good and positive thing.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    Credit to you in that at least you are open and honest about seeing guns as, well ... kit ... objects of leisure, ... or some such term. Range-toys.


    There are others who post on threads like these who wont come out of that closet.

    But its pointless for them to hide because most of the people theyre trying to bullsht are men, men who were also 14 once upon a time and know exactly what the real motivation is.

    Its not hunting, or the burglar which has a grown man running round in camo gear with a uv scoped 50 cal.

    Try getting them to own up though...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The second amendment does tend to get re-interpreted a bit, but overall it has been found to not legalise someone stockpiling military weapons, and focusses more on the right of an individual to have weapons at home should they ever be needed.

    From an outsider's perspective, there is a lot of debate particularly around the AR-15-style. It looks like a military weapon.


    It looks like the kind of weapon we've seen in every single war movie since the 1970s:

    https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0091763/mediaviewer/rm542471936/

    I got into this with someone who loves guns, and it turns out that it's really just window dressing. It's a pretty ordinary gun underneath it at all, just dressed up in macho clothes to make the owners feel like they're Rambo. A marketing gimmick. And of course they sell all sorts of attachments and bit and bobs to further the facade.

    It's a 1 litre Ford Fiesta with a body kit and a loud exhaust.

    The reality is that it's not a military weapon. It doesn't even come close to the standard issue military stuff. It just looks the part. Being mostly a mechanical device and widely-owned, there are of course some mods that can be made to make it fire in an automatic way. But these tend to be outlawed pretty quickly.

    The reality is that most mass shootings in the US use a multitude of weapons (whatever they can get their hands on), and the vast majority of people who die in mass shootings (like 90%+) are shot with a handgun.

    The discussion around sport rifles and such is largely a distraction because outlawing them wouldn't in any way reduce the number or intensity of mass shootings in the US.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    he's probably mixing it up with opiods very addicive very bad withdrawal symptoms that can lead to suicidal thoughts



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    Ar 15 is just a semi automatic rifle that can be tarted up to look like a military rifle. it is basically a hunting rifle. Also it is not a specific product it is a more of a design specification for how the gun works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Suicidal ideation is also a common side-effect of many anti-depressants. I know that sounds insanely counter-intuitive, but it's a case that it takes a number of weeks taking anti-depressants to get yourself back to a point of equilibrium.

    If someone attends a doctor with deep depression they may feel like they want to die, but they are so demotivated that they just do nothing. A quote I read online somewhere was, "When I went on anti-depressants, I was still suicidal but now I had the energy to feel like I could actually go through with it".

    There is a massive risk period of 2-6 weeks after someone goes on anti-depressants where they need to be closely watched and encouraged to report any feelings about harming themselves or another. But this isn't widely advertised or discussed. Your brain is all over the bloody place, you're liable to follow through on some of the darker thoughts that come to you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,081 ✭✭✭sheesh


    ds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,901 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    ...a clear indication of major social breakdown, very evidentially in providing critical health care needs.... a major lesson to us all, never ever ignore your health care needs ever, or......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,698 ✭✭✭Feisar


    I can't but in the States self defense is a perfectly legitimate reason to own a gun. There's even concealed carry permits so one can carry a handgun at all times. There's also open carry. You'l see arseholes doing youtube vids open carrying in towns just to say look at me. Usually the vid will involve an encounter with police.

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If that was the case Ireland and most other countries would have the same issue.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Would they? Would that not be assuming that access to drugs and mental health issues are the same in those countries as in the US? I am interested in how the assumption that most other countries would have the same issue can be made - without making the assumption that there is an equivalence in their drug and mental health situation? Or am I wildly misunderstanding what you are suggesting here (also likely)?

    But these things are vastly different from country to country. One can not even get medication for Pin Worm - one of the most common parasitic infections in humans - without a prescription in Germany for example but you can simply buy it over the counter in the UK and Ireland.

    While my friends in Ireland who have sought access to mental health support faced high bills and waiting lists - the people I know in Germany (including one user of boards) were able to basically walk in off the street and get 8 hours right away on their medical insurance and after those 8 hours if the professional signed a document to say the patient does indeed need further therapy - up to something like 60/80 hours per annum free of charge too straight away while another simple document can double that again.

    So if we are examining the claim that gun violence is tied to medication and mental health structures - that we would see equivalent results in most other countries - when in fact even neighboring countries can differ wildly in their drug and mental health regimes - would just seem on the face of it to be a shaky assumption to start with.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,184 ✭✭✭85603


    If its got the magazine capacity of a military weapon, which it looks to have here (or close to), and if its available in a military calibre, which it probably is, and if it has 2 of the 3 firing settings of a military weapon, ... then wouldnt it effectively be a military weapon but just without the automatic setting.

    No need for the likes of it.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    A main battle tank.

    There are a fair few hoops, it's not like you can just go to the local gun store and buy one (Plus they tend to be a bit pricey. Even basic machineguns and assault rifles are routinely some $20k), but they are legal. I've a friend who owns several, (and a bunch of friends who own WW2 tanks) they are fully functional. Interestingly, the paperwork and taxes mean that they generally only fire armor-piercing and canister: Each high explosive round comes with a $200 tax stamp and such onerous paperwork requirements they are not normally worth the effort.

    If you need to kill a human being, it's the best thing for it. Around here, we think that if you have the right to self defense, you have the right to the equipment to use it. Handguns mainly because they are convenient. AR15s are also very popular for hunting and pest control. Remember, the object of the exercise is to put a projectile on target, the projectile doesn't care what the target it. The design features which make modern rifles useful for military purposes (eg ergonomics, accuracy, modularity, customizability, maintainability) are the exact same which make them useful for any civilian purpose. Today's 30.06 Springfield bolt-action deer-getter started out as the Army's standard service rifle a century ago.

    As others have said, it's down to 'how to live with them', not 'how to get rid of them'. Even if some major gun confiscation law were passed (it won't be), there is no mechanism in US law to enforce one. Good luck getting rid of the 4th Amendment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I actually don't disagree at all. If it's about sport shooting, then automatic loading is not necessary. The argument is that it allows the shooter to fire multiple rounds without having to adjust their aim. Surely if you're shooting for sport, it's all about getting each shot right and not about firing in quick succession?

    But the discussion about guns gets so bogged down in these specifics so frequently, when it's a total red herring. Even if all weapons like this were to disappear overnight, mass shootings and murders in the US would be unaffected.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    On the whole, the US is a failed entity beyond fixing. The main reason that other countries have open gun laws without the mass shootings is a cultural issue. American culture is what's broken here, not gun laws. American culture rewards selfishness, sociopathy and greed. Honesty, empathy, selflessness and charity without reward are seen as a sign of weakness.

    I've been living in US a few years now, can't say I agree with this part of your statement. By no means saying it is perfect, but it is not the immoral dystopian place either.

    As with a lot of places, the bad stories get attention but it still has a lot of positives. At least that's my experience in New England region, which to be fair is very different to a lot of the rest of the country in many ways. Even here, the 'Live Free or Die' motto of New Hampshire actually makes me thing of just how engrained the abject fear many here do have when it comes to government legislation. A fear which I think is irrational in the world of the 21st century.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,456 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Depends on the sport. If accuracy can be a thing, why not test speed -and- accuracy?

    Here's one from the highly violent society of New Zealand. Looks kindof fun to me. And note how fast those old Winchester lever-actions put rounds downrange.

    A more popular sport (because you don't need the clothes) is 3-gun. Again, speed and accuracy both.




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