Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email Niamh on [email protected] for help. Thanks :)
New AMA with a US police officer (he's back!). You can ask your questions here

What can be done about mass shootings in America?

  • 01-10-2021 12:56am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 43 maeve99


    Just watched a YouTube video of the mass shooting in Tennessee a few days ago and it seems like mass shootings are as normal as talking about breakfast or the weather in America. Terrible situation but it seems that Americans and the world have become accustomed to it.

    The question is, can the issue ever be solved? Many say tighter gun restrictions would solve the issue like happened in the UK after Dunblane and Australia after the Port Arthur Massacre.

    But the issue might be deeper. Many countries have high gun ownership rates (Switzerland), and haven't had a mass shooting in years. It seems moreso cultural.

    Does American society just need an overhaul?



«1345678

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 19,869 ✭✭✭✭ Strumms


    Unless guns are kept out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them, there will be mass shootings. That can’t happen unless the 2nd amendment is done away with or changed... being neither of those situations are in anyway likely in our lifetimes you’ll see just as many if not more atrocities... “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

    That militia have been rather quiet for 230 years or whatever since that was decreed.. don’t think a single US president has attempted to sign the White House over to the Russians...or sell the pentagon to Mongolia to build an ice rink... however ..






  • Registered Users Posts: 72,826 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    Access to guns is the problem, nothing else.



  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 89,766 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Capt'n Midnight


    Depending on your exact definition there's roughly 2 mass shootings a day in the US.

    And it's not even a gun culture thing as places like Scandinavian, Germany and Switzerland show, they have guns but very few mass killings. On the other hand Australia imposed strict regulations and that more or less stopped mass killings.



    There's another article about how the only developed country where this stuff happens is completely powerless to prevent it.



    Also most of the deaths in Mexico's drug wars are fuelled by demand in the USA so you can add them to the list



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 72,826 ✭✭✭✭ Atlantic Dawn


    And disclaimers which are insane, basically they can put something like *May or may not kill you.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,092 ✭✭✭ topmanamillion


    There's no logical argument against this but the horse has unfortunately bolted on this one. There's 120 guns per 100 American. For context Ireland is around the 7.2 per 100 mark.

    To start any sort of meaningful change the anti gun lobby would need to take down the NRA and have their influence on politics outlawed. A massive ask. They're a multi billion dollar lobby backed by very wealthy gun traders with millions of members. They list politicians on their website that support current gun laws and instruct their members to vote for them. In some jurisdictions if you're not on that list you may as well not bother running in an election.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭ kirk.


    There's a strong macho culture over there

    Doesn't help the 'misfits'

    Also they're gun crazy over there , you only have to look at the movies to see it



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭ delboythedub



    While this video is very interesting to watch it does not change my believe that American both government & military place very little value on human life ie their war on terror has killed 800000+ lives in the last 10 years

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pELwCqz2JfE



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,257 ✭✭✭ taxAHcruel


    I have an 11 year old daughter and we have been training in the care and use of rifles through a friend here in Ireland for some time now. And I really enjoy it. My daughter really enjoys it too. And I am quite proud of her skills at being able to do things like load one, aim it, fire it, and hit a difficult target all in under 10 seconds.

    But I have no desire to own one myself. At all.

    So that is all good. I do not entirely know where I fall on the gun ownership continuum. Wherever I eventually land with my opinion on the issue - it will not be fueled by an anti gun paranoia or dogmatism I sometimes see when this topic comes up.

    I do not think complex social issues can be boiled down to any one factor. Saying something like "It's just access to guns and that's that" is attempting to boil a massively complex issue into a single attribute. And I suspect it is that kind of thinking that helps in part to lead us to bad situations in the first place. As was pointed out in the OP - other countries with high gun ownership do not scale the same as the US with problematic results.

    It is going to be a mix of everything. Access to guns will be a part of it. How that access is mediated will be part of it. Culture will be part of it. Economics and class issues will be part of it. Racial tensions will be part of it. Mental and medical health regimes and programs and structures will be part of it. Media will be part of it. Education will be part of it. Polarized politics will be part of it. Paranoia will be part of it.

    Anecdotally I have talked to Swiss people and American people for example on the subject of their guns and I do not get the "I need to protect my family dude - the bad people could break into my house at any moment dude - I need to be a man and be able to defend my wife and kids and property dude!" mentality from the Swiss nearly as often as I do from the Americans.

    So what "can be done" as the OP asks? I honestly do not know. But whatever it is - I suspect it will be based in treating gun violence and mass shooting as a symptom not as the disease.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭ BobHopeless


    Access to drugs and people's mental health are the main issue not guns.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,428 ✭✭✭✭ banie01


    Cancel Mass!

    There's definitely nothing to be said for another mass!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,135 ✭✭✭ Feisar


    I understand the 2A activists point of view because giving an inch often starts the slow road to death by one thousand cuts. Ya see it here, currently the EU is proposing a lead ammo ban due to fears of lead poison. It's starting with wetlands however it may not end there. Handguns were taken away from lay abiding citizens here twice, once to fears of the IRA (even though handgun shooting is and still is allowed in NI) and secondly after a gangland shooting in 2013. Both did nothing helpful other than "look we are tough on gunsz."

    Now I appreiciate some people just won't see it like that. For instance it took my wife a long time to come around but I've been shooting since I was a pup, a fine rifle to me is like a Gibson guitar to a musician. However yes they can be dangerous.

    As to America, people have mentioned anti-depressants, I've read about them handing out pills like smarties and apparently some of them damage the frontal lobe, where the whole right/wrong type part of the brain functions?

    And then from what I can see there is a fear thing in the States, I read about a lad that kept a gun in his shower in a tupperware in case someone broke into his home while he was showering. Now in fairness to him the reason I heard of him was because someone did break in while he was in the shower so I suppose he was justified. However when one is in that sort of mindset I believe a sickness of sorts creeps in. If one is at DEFCON 5 at all times it's going to lead to shootings. Lads with shotguns for home defense locked and loaded at the bedside on a special quick access safe for example. Fear breeds fear IMHO. I'd consider myself pretty situationally aware however I don't worry about sitting with my back to the wall in a restaurant so I can see them coming.

    Still love my guns though!

    First they came for the socialists...



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ Shao Kahn


    The Swiss have access to plenty of guns, they don't seem to be blowing each other away on the regular?

    America has a very long standing problem with high levels of violence and aggression in their society. Throw lots of guns into the mix, and you've got a tinder box ready to ignite. The propensity towards violence and aggression, could be considered the bigger issue here rather than the guns.

    Guns are problematic, but some countries are just very unsuitable for having a large gun culture.

    I would make a similar argument for drug controls. Some countries would be a disaster, if you made addictive drugs easily available and legal to purchase. Ireland possibly being a prime example, as we have shown ourselves to be quite poor at controlling our alcohol consumption etc. Other countries could possibly do okay with relaxed drug or gun laws.

    Really depends on the people in question. The general characteristics of your average citizen and their desire to do harm to others or their lack of ability to avoid doing harm to themselves.

    "Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives, and it puts itself into our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday." (John Wayne)



  • Registered Users Posts: 246 ✭✭ RossGeller


    I'm not following. You're saying that being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter?



  • Registered Users Posts: 468 ✭✭ PeaSea


    Take away the guns. No guns = no shootings. Simple.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭ kirk.


    There's a flaw in your logic there

    Would be gun carnage if they tried to take them away



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,257 ✭✭✭ taxAHcruel


    Further the issue there is the people they most want to take the guns away from - are the ones least likely to actually give them up. When they have a gun amnesty you can be pretty sure that everyone who rocks up and hands a gun in - are the ones that you probably are least worried about having one.

    There is more guns in circulation in the US than there is people last time I heard. The horse has bolted on the option of getting rid of the guns. Whatever "solutions" they come up with at this stage will be based on living with those guns - not life without them.

    So it sounds like the word "Simple" above should be replaced with "Simplistic". The two words are very different.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,797 ✭✭✭ kirk.


    What's the most dangerous weapon you can buy there now



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,760 ✭✭✭ dudley72


    Stop selling guns and it will stop a lot of the mass shooting.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 20,921 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Pawwed Rig


    This exactly. It is their country and they can run it how they like. I am just thankful I don't live there.

    If it was such a big problem (for them) something would have been done about it years ago but it hasn't so let them at it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 493 ✭✭ BobHopeless


    Try take away the guns = instant civil war

    So no not that simple



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,257 ✭✭✭ taxAHcruel


    I do not want to put words in the mouth of the person you are replying to. But I would say "yes and no" to that question you ask. It is - at with most things in life - more complicated than that.

    We certainly know that some medications have potential deranging side effects more than others. Especially if the person taking them mixes them with other medication or things like alcohol.

    But I think what the user you are replying to might also be referring to is the "Medicate first ask questions later" tendency in the American Medical System. Rather than address underlying issues or problems - they medicate them and paper mache over the issue. So it is not that "being put on anti-depressants can make you a shooter" so much as being put on them in lieu of actually addressing the underlying issues a person might have - fails to avert their path to becoming a shooter.

    It has been a long time since I looked at the figures on what % of Americans are on what particular pill or other. But last time I looked the figures were astounding. The drugs that nearly killed Jordan Peterson recently as he tried to come off them for example - the prescription figures for that drug are simply terrifying.

    A few people have highlighted the issues of taking ownership of your life - effort and responsibility and accountability - coping with failure and conflict - and much more. Perfectly normal life skills that they feel our species is losing. And the effects of that are merely being medicated with pills like confetti. And they feel that that is an issue. If such people are right then gun violence is a symptom, not the disease. And all the "just take away the guns duuuhhhh" mentalities would then just be too simplistic to take seriously - even if implementing such a policy were remotely feasible or realistic or attainable.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement