What can be done about mass shootings in America?

Manic Moran

I know a lot of people who own tanks, but I don't know any who claim it's for personal protection, it is something of a red herring there. As is the large capacity magazine issue being a particular threat. I would refer you back to post 52.

I suspect we're going to have to simply state a disagreement as to the practical benefits of modern firearms when it comes to personal protection. I suspect, though, that one of the two of us has likely done a lot more research on the matter, a) because of personal interest, and b) because of practical application of this knowledge. Your arguments are emotive, not empirical. A modern semi-auto rifle is, quite simply, the best firearm for personal protection for the average able-bodied person, as well as general purpose recreational or work use. It's not the best-selling firearm in the US because everyone has manhood issues. You don't commute in a 1970s Austin Allegro for a reason: Technology has moved on.

Ash.J.Williams

I heard there was a mass shooting and I went to Google to read about it and I couldn’t pin point it as there seems to be mass shootings happening 24/7

dublinman1990

I would give the personal view that if you were a person who has suffered from a significant level of mental illness since child birth & are afraid of hearing about the frequent levels of gun violence that take place in the U.S. on a regular basis; you should not be allowed to enter the country at all if you simply don't like using guns so that your own level of personal safety can be maintained.

I do find it difficult if I talk about what opinion is correct or appropriate here when I hear about a mentally ill person who could see a mass shooting happen right in front of their faces within a split second & see another person who could have the same mental illness as them who than becomes the main instigator in beginning a mass shooting on people living within their own local community. I do try to understand that seeing that level of misery really wreaks havoc within your own headspace when you try & look at the consequences of these incidents afterwards.

If a person with a mental illness was afraid of using guns & sees a person who has the same illness and inflict that unthinkable level of pain & misery upon other innocent people within their own locality; what could society in America say about them when other mentally ill people observe them if they go & use them? I would go on to say that mentally ill people who are placing themselves in that situation should be classed as stupid & outright dangerous to society if they have severe vulnerabilities within their own mental state that can make them become people with very violent personalities towards other people in society. The level of punishment that you should receive for doing that crime should be equally severe to someone else who has done the same crime although has no form of mental illness in them whatsoever.

Mass shootings of this alarming scale & frequency have also taken place around Central Europe & in the UK as well for at least 10 years or more. I don't know if this should be a trend that can increase a lot more now into the future because how they can take place in America. I would give the view that the frequency of mass shootings in the U.S. can & does create a big influence in making them present in locations right across Europe if the authorities here have critical intelligence on them & try to stamp it out for good. When we have heard or read about them occurring in places like Oslo, Paris & more recently in Plymouth in the UK. The authorities at this point must not stand with idle hands when these incidents can occur among people who are currently living in Europe at any given moment. They have to stand ready to get rid of that influence instantly to keep people safe by while keeping them away from harm.

If police authorities here in Europe have the official legal clout to stamp these shootings to keep their citizens safe. It should send out a clear message to the perpetrators out there that we as European citizen don't want any more of these mass shootings to occur in Europe any more. We don't want anymore vulnerable people to become a statistic of these harrowing incidents. We want them to live in a far more nuanced & educated society so that they can be safe & be thriving within this part of the world.

If anymore of the terrorists & 'incels' out there don't want to live like this in future; well what will happen next should become an easy choice for them. If they don't comply while they carry out more atrocities here in Europe; the police & crime agencies can give them a prison cell or can shoot the scumbags dead with a gun in return so they can take their pick.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977843#Comment_117977843

If a person with a mental illness was afraid of using guns & sees a person who has the same illness and inflict that unthinkable level of pain & misery upon other innocent people within their own locality; what could society in America say about them when other mentally ill people observe them if they go & use them? I would go on to say that mentally ill people who are placing themselves in that situation should be classed as stupid & outright dangerous to society if they have severe vulnerabilities within their own mental state that can make them become people with very violent personalities towards other people in society.

There's an awful lot wrong with your post, in fact, I can't see much I'd agree with, but the above statement and particularly the bit in bold shows you clearly have no understanding of the process or experience of mental illness.

2011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117977843#Comment_117977843

Possibly the most incoherent post I have ever read.

banie01

A 30% increase in homicides in 2020 versus 2019 😮

The biggest rate increase in year on year homicide in "modern" US history and honestly a staggering jump.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/mortality-dashboard.htm#

The issues it points to, are quite stark. At a time when people spent more time than ever with family and loved ones due to lockdowns? A spike of massive scale hits the murder rate! I'm looking forward to mashing the CDC report against the national crime statistics for the US and in particular violent crime to see if a similar spike occurred.

While the initial release of the NCHS preliminary data did not provide a total number of homicides from 2020, the FBI's Uniform Crime Report recorded about 21,570 murders total last year -- compared with an estimated 16,425 murders in 2019.

The NCHS researchers plan to conduct follow-up analyses on the new homicide data for more insight into state-level data and how the homicides occurred. For instance, the provisional data do not document the various mechanisms of homicide, but the researchers noted that provisional data on gun-related deaths also increased last year, climbing from a rate of 11.9 firearm deaths per 100,000 in 2019 to 13.6 per 100,000 in 2020 -- a 14% increase.

This isn't just a mass shooting issue, it's an access to firearms issue, it's a mental health issue and it is surely at this point?

A public health issue of quite large scope too.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982523#Comment_117982523

A public health issue of quite large scope too.

Covid has shown us how conservatives are largely resistant to being impacted by death figures forcing them to act against their hardwired beliefs.

700K deaths, the man who might be next President of the US (De Santis) introduced laws focused on preventing school boards from bringing in mask mandates. Maybe if we somehow saw Democrats get super majorities in both houses (60%) and the White House then it would change, but that is not looking likely within the next several election cycles.

banie01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982605#Comment_117982605

Fully agree tbh but, I'd posit it's not as simple as a Dem/Rep split.

Yes there is a large majority of Republicans that are very much individual rights and responsibilities with little care for impact of everyone acting in that manner, but, there is a good number of Dem voters who seem to value those "freedoms" too albeit in less overtly aggressive manner.

I don't know how public health and policy can be extricated from the US need for left v right, pro v anti. It reduces every issue to binary and it's easy to sit in Ireland and point out how stupid it is...

But other than a small cadre of US fringe politico's it's deemed perfectly normal and par for the course there. Far too much reliance on politicians for public health leadership and not enough heed paid to experts. It's a symptom of culture wars IMO in that "experts" become the enemy. Very reminiscent of certain political movements disdain for, and actions against academia.

Tell me how

Police in Texas currently chasing an 18year old who drew a gun and shot 4 after an argument in a school yard.

Thankfully no fatalities reported yet but for those who think that guns aren't the problem, mental health is, what do you think it does to children to have to live with the fear, or experience of this as they try to get an education?

PhilOssophy

Thoughts and prayers, that's about it really.

Itssoeasy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117984942#Comment_117984942

If an 18 years olds first instinct is to use a gun on people in their school over an argument which at 18 are mostly way over blown anyway it’s a bad sign.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117984947#Comment_117984947

dear gawd, please help those poor poor kids in that shooting.

and please stop them fags libs and their communist gun control.

also can i git a mac-10 with the 30 rd mag for christmas. ah need it for huntin turkeys lord.

but dont go lettin any a them school shootin types git a hold of it.

amen.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117984942#Comment_117984942

The feeling I get from here - without living in America - is a culture of fear and paranoia in general. This narrative of having to be able to defend your family from the "bad man" or a home invasion and so forth. How are you going to rise to the challenge when the bad people come for you. It seems to permeate the culture there in a way it does not in other countries with relatively high gun ownership.

So I think I would be more worried about a child growing up trying to get an education in that culture and mindset - more than I would about them growing up in some culture of fear their school might be about to experience a shooting. And I would be more worried about gun ownership in such a culture/society much much more than I am worried by gun ownership in and of itself.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117982605#Comment_117982605

Most of the crazy murders are happening in places where Republicans have no power or say. E.g. Chicago, Detroit, Baltimore etc.

In my opinion the biggest single factor is the lack of fathers in black households, causing young black men to look for father figures in their deprived areas, many of whom are the drug dealers or gang leaders. Most of those murders, I'll wager, are gang-related.

85603

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986743#Comment_117986743

Well then its simple. Just fix the lack of black fathers.

And fix gang crime.

And fix mental health.

And if all that doesnt work, then look at gun legislation.

Then the very next day the military can finally roll in and impose communism haw haw haw, it was those pesky 30 rd magazines that were the deciding factor in stopping our gay red abrams tanks.

The US is probably the most medicated place in the world. The focus on medication and psychology providing easy answers is a major factor affecting the mindsets of Americans, along with the economic and political conditions. Having a two party system constantly reinforces an us VS them mentality, and is present throughout the period of development for most people. Then, throw in the massive inequalities (not referring to racism, but classism or elitism), and you have a lot of people left behind, who are constantly bombarded with advertising for all manner of products, or beliefs.

My one stint in the US bemused me, because of the amount of media that the average American is exposed to. Hundreds of radio stations, same with TV, covering all manner of beliefs, and with little intent to regulate what's being promoted. Depending on your state, different worldviews gain support over others, and considering the shifts in society due to the social sciences (not exclusive to race and gender, but plenty of other theorists), many of these theories have been implemented on the local level with the aim of elevating one group over another.

Psychology in the US is a business. As is the medical profession, with one feeding the other. Which is why we've seen an explosion of mental conditions being revealed over the last two decades, along with people being classified as such. Which, in turn, has had the drug companies providing medication for these illnesses, with little consideration for the side effects. There have been plenty of scandals over drug testing and approval in the US, but as with most big business concerns, they're swept under the carpet and away from peoples attention pretty quickly.

The root of the problem is the divisions within American society, which are reinforced by technology. At no other period of history, have people felt so alone/lonely, while being so connected. Added to this is the mentality of the blame game, where few people want to tackle the inherent problems within society, but rather pass the buck to something minor.

Personally, I'd say that a few changes would be needed for America to step forward. The expansion of the two party system to having five or six parties. The downsizing of their military and weapon industry, in favor of domestic industry/economic development, along with a genuine effort to bring balanced education across all States. I saw American cities that reminded me of third world cities, with hordes of people living on the streets. The infrastructure outside of the truly prosperous states is pretty awful relying on maintaining efforts made in the 80s/90s. The medical/Psychology profession and the Pharma companies need to be reined in and made truly accountable for what they produce, provide and refer to people. Just as the theorists of the social sciences need to be examined for introducing dangerous or encouraging truly divisive beliefs.

The core problem for the US is that it's a massive divided place. Race, gender, even nationality, economic backgrounds, educational backgrounds, etc. All ways in which people are isolated and pushed out to the fringes. It all started with good intentions, but a modern society cannot operate with so many individualistic needs and demands for resources. The US is proof of that.

Basically, if we want to see these kind of killing ended, the US needs to stop tearing itself apart, and seek to bring people together. A return to a focus on community spirit. Helping each other out because they're neighbors or even simply fellow Americans. Providing everyone with the means to achieve something close to the American dream, and if not that, at least ensure that people have suitable housing, in clean/well-managed areas, which are properly monitored by the authorities.... with jobs being available for everyone, which are capable of providing an income to support an average family.

Any extreme becomes a negative. The US is a place that embraces extremes. Capitalism to the extreme. Free expression to the extreme. Minority rights to the extreme. etc. It's no surprise that they're tearing themselves apart, and some people are going to react violently to being caught up in it all.

Still... it's not going to change, because it would require Americans to admit that they're not perfect. The land of the free who incarcerate more people than anyone else. The hypocrisy of US culture extends throughout the whole, and they won't want to deal with it, except when it concerns their own chosen/preferred group that needs special consideration, which simply reinforces the divides in society.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986743#Comment_117986743

And in my opinion you have just demonstrated the biggest problem - blatant racism. Systematically disadvantaging people and then blaming them for it, is the stock in trade of the Republican party, you are part of the problem not the solution.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987003#Comment_117987003

It's not racism, it's statistics. Young black men disproportionately commit murders. Their victims are also disproportionately other young black men. There's nothing racist in saying that.

How do you break the cycle? The War on Drugs has failed. How about a War on absentee fathers instead?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987067#Comment_117987067

Absentee fathers is part of it, but so too is the cycle of abuse that often comes from single mothers raising children. It's something that is often shown in movies/tv but rarely addressed.

Education and employment. Employment that goes beyond minimum wage. One of the main problems with violent crime is that too many Black people (similar problems for poor white areas too) are left with too much time on their hand, which means they spend too much time in groups on the streets, or in neighborhoods without something to occupy their time. This is particularly true for young people, but also for those in their 40s (who have lived with the failed system all their lives). Get them off the streets, and into workplaces. Educate and provide skills that allow them to earn a reasonable income, which in turn, provides the means to improve the standards of their living, and also improve the general standard of living across districts. When your district looks like it's just come out of a war, it's hard to feel any desire to improve things.

The US focused too much on providing a workforce for their manufacturing sector, with low wages, and no security of employment, but economic change drastically impacted the availability and value of such employment. Add in that many businesses have moved away from the cities, leaving large populations behind with few options for employment, and those options that are available are barely worth doing.

A friend of mine (African American) completed high school but couldn't afford university, tried working in his local area, but even though he worked long hours, barely managed to cover his cost of living, which was pretty basic. Moved to another state, and city, but faced problems with the locals blocking his applications, and then he was stuck within the area of factory employment. In the end he moved abroad to Asia, and is finally making decent money. But he was lucky in getting the opportunity (through the mormons) to go abroad.

The simple truth is that if they want to decrease crime then they need to occupy peoples time, while giving them some pride in their lives. Get them away from the gangs, and downplay the value of the gangsta style of living. Encourage a change within African American culture pushing family values, and stability. As opposed to the crap that BLM pushed about destroying the nuclear family.

You find similar problems in Redneck areas where there are traditionally poor families, poorly educated, and with few opportunities for growth.

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117987003#Comment_117987003

Maybe true but look at this story from 3 days ago in Chicago.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2021/10/3/22707555/5-suspects-released-without-charges-deadly-shootout-austin

the video is up online and it's mental, there is a police car right behind the gang members so they caught them red handed. So republicans maybe bad racists but it's democrats letting out without charge people who were having a running gun battle in the middle of the day in front of cops.

briany

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117986627#Comment_117986627

I think that once Columbine happened, that really set the template. There had been shootings before Columbine, but that was the one where the shooters became MTV antiheroes. Everyone talked about them and everyone knew their names. Without doing so directly, it told every terminally pissed-off youth in America that here was one hell of a way to give two middle fingers to the world and achieve notoriety. Kill everyone and then kill yourself. You can see how that would appeal to someone who was both suicidal and rage-filled. How those people are created in the first place is a problem no-one in the USA has ever really tried to address.

Enter name here

Surprised? NO... Society is playing out exactly how the Biden followers and woke brigade wanted after they elected him. But then again I presume mods will not like this opinion because it's polarizing.

Ten of Swords

@Enter name here not sure what that's about. Don't post in the thread again

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117984942#Comment_117984942

Well he is already out on bail, probably won't be talked about a lot on the standard gun violence places though

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991425#Comment_117991425

Where are 'the standard gun violence places'? An NRA boardroom? Smith and Wesson marketing dept? A GOP townhall meeting?

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991669#Comment_117991669

I am sure you actually do know what I mean. The places that go crazy about certain types of gun violence while ignoring the type of gun violence that results in the vast majority of killings. What's your response to the article I linked?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991891#Comment_117991891

It's a bit strange that you are talking in code rather than mentioning where or what exactly these places are.

You didn't link any article in the post I responded to.

Melanchthon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991908#Comment_117991908

You know exactly what I mean though, MSNBC and so on. The article is three posts up from yours? I presume your reading the thread. Shows how multiple shooters caught red handed got released by democrat DA.

Didn't give a link to the school shooter being released on bail but here it is now. He shot a teacher and another student and is out the next day

https://www.newsweek.com/timothy-george-simpkins-timberview-school-shooting-suspect-was-bullying-victim-family-1636414

Your thoughts?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117991964#Comment_117991964

This is from that article.

In a statement later Sunday, Cristina Villareal, a spokeswoman for the Cook County state’s attorney’s office, explained that prosecutors had “determined that the evidence was insufficient to meet our burden of proof to approve felony charges.” Police officials agreed with the decision, Villareal added.

Do you know that this was not the case? How do you know?

On the concept of mutual combat which was referred to as one of the reasons that they didn't charge anyone;

Mutual combat, a term commonly used in United States courts, occurs when two individuals intentionally and consensually engage in a fair fight, while not hurting bystanders or damaging property. ... In some cases, mutual combat may nevertheless result in killings

It seems Oregon is the only state that has banned such a practice.

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117993487#Comment_117993487

For better or worse, the Federal military has also banned duelling under the UCMJ. (Article 114). I believe D.C. has a similar prohibition.