Heavyweight Boxing

You said people are dismissing joshua IN a rematch due to dislike/contempt. I disagree as most of us are going on what we saw Saturday and other fights. We will leave it at that because we wont agree.

He always has a chance, i would say 30:70, he could ko usyk , always a possibility, but your fanboy of joshua is baffling to me and you might say the same to me about fury, difference is fury has always backed up his talk.

Absolute nonsense. Fanboy Joshua.....? I am as praising and critical of him in equal measure...

Because I think he is a word class HW does not at all mean I'm his fanboy. In today's HW game, he is a world class HW.

Are you a Fury fanboy because you rate him very highly? I rate Fury very highly, probably number 1 at HW now. Dislike the person

AJ comes cross as somewhat likable, but I agree, he is a bit contrived

Again, never said people picking Usyk to win in fight 2 is based off a dislike for AJ.

No idea why you are seeing this. It has been pointed out clearly to you my point.

Flatly dismissing his chances, or the suggesting that it's pointless to even rematch, comes across as an ignorance of boxing, or a told ya so dislike for him, and a real want for him to lose. Hey, and if people dislike him, and are being clouded here because of it, so what. What's the issue?

The word "dismiss"......in other words, not even entertaining the possibility/chances or wanting to rematch. This comes across illogical to me. Either an ignorance of boxing, or a I told ya so kind of dislike

You hear it so much about AJ anyway...the slating his hype and slating his beating this lad and that lad, and who has he beaten, and he's so fake and all that...

It stands to reason that to then flatly dismiss the chance of a rematch or the chance to reverse or do better in a rematch comes across as a I tolda ya so dislike.

Again, why would that be an issue? It's human nature.

I never flatly dismissed Fury in the Wilder rematch, nor flatly dismissed him in the Wlad fight. I simply said that I thought he would lose...

And I do not have a "strong" dislike for him. I just don't like him as a person. He comes across poorly for me. Hey, he could be sound as a pound in person.

None of us know these people in person. Our judgments are based off how they carry themselves in public, and for me, Fury disappoints. Not always.

Let's iron one thing out here: Never once did I back against him because I disliked him. That is just plain silly.

Oct 9 I am picking a Fury win.

I wonder what Rob & AJ think of Hearn's interview last night ,

He said he told AJ more than once not to over think the fight & to not try to box him & Aj got it his game plan horrible wrong ,He also said they are all so set on a rematch because they know AJ performed terribly & with a terrible game plan ,

I also see Spencer Fearon saying Hearn told him a few weeks ago AJ injured his right arm ,Spencer also lambasted the thinking behind AJ's gameplan

I think AJ bought way to much into thinking he is a wise thinking man & it really bite him hard,

Lot of talk about how his ring walk was too relaxed hugging people in the crowd & chatting to people instead of being focused on the fight,

Possible semantics or misinterpretation. Simple: Picking against him in a rematch could have zero to do with dislike...

I meant to imply/mean that to flatly dismiss his chances to win, or to even take/consider the rematch was looking like one, or both of two things....that's what it comes across like. Either not understanding boxing all that well, and/or just not liking AJ.

AJ isn't all that like/respected as a fighter here, And that is fine. For me he comes across well, albeit a bit contrived. As a boxer he is world class rated today, but doesn't do it for me overall historically. He has glaring weaknesses.

OK we will leave it at that, think he comes across incredibly self obsessed and a few other videos like i posted show his mindset, as whyte said not a nice guy and i tend to agree, you are entitled to your opinion.

Who gives a damn about whether Fury or AJ are nice guys. It's like the Ronaldo Messi rubbish at this stage, although in terms of historical significance neither are in the league of a Ronaldo or Messi.

I'm not really a fan of either, I like watching good fighters. My impartial view is that Fury is simply the better fighter. HW boxing is one of the only sports where the skill level has actually regressed over time. Size is now king, in the land of super heavyweights, it's Fury who is the most skillful. Now again, I don't rate hus standing in the pantheon of greats, but his size and movement make him a real handful. Build up to his fights are usually more entertaining than the fight itself but he has good skill level, a lot of heart and he has good ring IQ, even if his punch mechanics are not aesthetically pleasing, he knows how to win.

Joshua looks the part, but there are too many key components missing in order to call him a world class HW. Suspect chin, poor movement and bad natural stamina. It's also now looking like he has lost some of his bottle. I remember Wlad had to completely change his style, when he started he let his hands go and looked exciting, Joshua did similar but as the competition gets better (both suffered humiliating KOs) you need to change your style, adapt to protect that suspect chin whilst also not sacrificing all of your offence.

Wlad bored a lot with his jab jab straight right, he didn't throw an uppercut for 15 years but he found a way, and had killer instinct to finish a guy when he was hurt. Joshua has not shown this ability. Now he may have this ability but he sure as hell hasn't shown he can deviate. He is stuck in between. Not good enough to be a boxer puncher, but afraid to let the hands go for fear of getting hit. Critical critical flaw. You could KO or outbox Joshua. Or grind him down. A few ways to beat him, which you shouldn't be able to say with a really top HW.

Being based in UK, being born an A-side fighter has been his curse in long run as much as it has blessed him with riches. He was fast tracked to stardom by match room, is their money making machine, the Wlad fight was the false dawn as it gave them a false sense that he was almost a finished article, that win was sheer luck.

They really should have went to work on him then, prior to that fight and after he was positioned into fights in which he overmatched his opponent. First time he stepped out of his comfort zone in US, he absolutely bombed, another red flag. He still manages to look green to me.

Its one of 2 things:

1) he just hasn't got it

2) he needs to take a step back from chasing titles and big money, change his team, step out of spotlight and brand AJ and learn with a new coach, preferably in the US. Where he is just another fighter.

Step 2 requires hunger, but it's his only option. McCracken and co might not be the problem, it might be option 1 above but he has to explore all avenues to find out.

Listening to his management team who may only see short term with him now may not be in his best interests. He is young enough to rebuild away from the fake bravado of chasing rematches he is grossly overmatched in.

As I said Walshb I do genuinely enjoy your posts, I wasnt being sarcastic.

But in terms of areas for improvement, what evidence is there that he can improve in those 3 areas? Even under his current regime?

Guys who were telling him he was fantastic throughout the fight. I thought that was astounding, I actually know Rob McCracken from about 15 years back, the guy is no mug or yes man, he was doing that for a reason, AJ is fragile, he obviously goes to pieces with criticism or being told in a direct manner that he's behind.

When has Joshua shown any ability in the clinch? Using his size to wear out another fighter even a smaller one? I've never seen it. He doesn't fight like a guy with physical advantages.

The man in him will want the rematch no doubt but to get to the level needed to win will take alot longer, it's not a case of reverting to the 3 areas you mention for improvement, because he has never excelled in these areas let alone against an elite fighter.

New training camp with new team, adapt his style, be humble enough to step out of limelight, take apart his style, build himself up with new trainer, away from UK, couple of warm up fights and yeah maybe there is defined plan to avenge his defeat. And even at that he may just not have the ability.

Nothing I have seen in the guys career to date says he has a chance in that rematch. And I'm loathe to blame his coaches as yes men, but we need to see a change to see if someone can teach the dog new tricks.

Iv heard people saying who where ring side that Rob McCraken & other corner member not sure if it was Fernandez where heard saying to Eddie Hearn after the final bell ye i think we have this , i think we beat him,

WTF!!!!!!!!!! was going on with AJ and his whole team crazy stuff,

Come on, there are several examples in the clinch where he was actually working and busy and effective...he did it several times vs Wlad, who is far bigger than Usyk. I am not saying AJ is a great inside/clinch fighter, but what we got the other night was atrocious. Not even trying.....

Regards actual punching: Vast majority his shots were paws and tapping. Even the backhand was jabbed out. There was no spite/rotation. We all know AJ can lean in and throw spiteful shots. He has done it many times, and did it against Wlad and AP. Saturday night he was gun-shy to bits....maybe Ruiz fight has crippled him irreversibly...

The belief and desire to give it his all and not to overanalyze gassing out or being KO'd can be at least discussed and worked On by hIs team, whether that be his current team, or replacements/additions.

None of the above is guaranteed, but at least it's worth him trying and discussing. Otherwise, what is the point of it all. We fail, and that is it? Can't redeem or recover or reverse?

6-9 months is plenty time for AJ to give it a real good stab at changing for the better cone the rematch. Of course, Usyk could also change, and either be even better or the same, or less the fighter....something tells me with his discipline and cleverness and commitment, he may have learned more from this wiN than AJ learned from the defeat, and that is dangerous for AJ

Come on, I'm doing an Eddie here and trying to sell you the dream. The dream rematch......hop aboard the hype train one more time...

Why unfair to say some want him to fail? I want Fury to fail/lose. People always wants some to win and others to lose. It's human nature.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wanting a fighter to lose/fail. People here want AJ to fail. People here want Fury to fail. People here want Wilder to fail. and so on......

I find it odd that this view/thinking has people getting a bit defensive on it. Big deal, I say: You want X,Y or Z to fail. Grand!

You've been around these parts enough to know that there is a dislike, or not a like towards AJ the boxer/person. There is. It's clear to see. And again, that is absolutely fine. Maybe a better word to lessen it would be dismissal type attitude about him and his style/hype etc.

So, in knowing this, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume some posters want him to lose/fail.....and posters who dislike certain boxers will naturally be that bit more critical and scathing, as opposed to glowing and praising. I am evenly balanced with AJ. As a person he is ok. As a boxer he has strengths and weaknesses.

Exactly. And it is something that logically need to be considered....

A lot referees would have waved off fight 1 in the 12th. Fury was longer down than Forearm was when Ali fought him.

A poster questioned why I backed Wilder via KO over Fury earlier here. Sure who wouldn't pick a KO type win if picking Wilder? It's kind of the obvious choice of win to pick for him.

Now, I am backing Fury via TKO mid type rds.......and who's to say that Wilder makes it 0-5 for me on Fury bets...:)