Heavyweight Boxing

yourdeadwright

I blame Floyd

All of a sudden the search to finish your career wit a 0 or any loss means you a can has made people afraid to fight in the fire,

Heavy weights used to get out and after each other, now its mostly safety first,

Here;s a question do you think PED's where more used by Heavy Weights in the 80's & 90 than now ?

They all seemed to be in better shape back then, looks wise & the ability to go hard,

yourdeadwright

Iv heard people saying who where ring side that Rob McCraken & other corner member not sure if it was Fernandez where heard saying to Eddie Hearn after the final bell ye i think we have this , i think we beat him,

WTF!!!!!!!!!! was going on with AJ and his whole team crazy stuff,

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949223#Comment_117949223

Well they werent tested really. Look at Evander.

I think the sad truth is the HW division has been abysmal since the 90s and its just being propped up by heavy promotion. Its actually been steadily declining since the late 70s. The Americans have abandoned HW boxing as a sport. Maybe 1 notable champion in the last 25 ish years?

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949162#Comment_117949162

Come on, there are several examples in the clinch where he was actually working and busy and effective...he did it several times vs Wlad, who is far bigger than Usyk. I am not saying AJ is a great inside/clinch fighter, but what we got the other night was atrocious. Not even trying.....

Regards actual punching: Vast majority his shots were paws and tapping. Even the backhand was jabbed out. There was no spite/rotation. We all know AJ can lean in and throw spiteful shots. He has done it many times, and did it against Wlad and AP. Saturday night he was gun-shy to bits....maybe Ruiz fight has crippled him irreversibly...

The belief and desire to give it his all and not to overanalyze gassing out or being KO'd can be at least discussed and worked On by hIs team, whether that be his current team, or replacements/additions.

None of the above is guaranteed, but at least it's worth him trying and discussing. Otherwise, what is the point of it all. We fail, and that is it? Can't redeem or recover or reverse?

6-9 months is plenty time for AJ to give it a real good stab at changing for the better cone the rematch. Of course, Usyk could also change, and either be even better or the same, or less the fighter....something tells me with his discipline and cleverness and commitment, he may have learned more from this wiN than AJ learned from the defeat, and that is dangerous for AJ

Come on, I'm doing an Eddie here and trying to sell you the dream. The dream rematch......hop aboard the hype train one more time...

SHOVELLER

Of course Joshua has a chance in the rematch but its unfair to say people want him to fail. Think most fight fans were happy to see two genial personalities in the ring saturday and it would be very hard to have a dislike or hatred for either.

IMO it is similar to Wilder v Fury in that he has been well beaten already and it is hard to see him turning it around but not impossible.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949334#Comment_117949334

Why unfair to say some want him to fail? I want Fury to fail/lose. People always wants some to win and others to lose. It's human nature.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with anyone wanting a fighter to lose/fail. People here want AJ to fail. People here want Fury to fail. People here want Wilder to fail. and so on......

I find it odd that this view/thinking has people getting a bit defensive on it. Big deal, I say: You want X,Y or Z to fail. Grand!

You've been around these parts enough to know that there is a dislike, or not a like towards AJ the boxer/person. There is. It's clear to see. And again, that is absolutely fine. Maybe a better word to lessen it would be dismissal type attitude about him and his style/hype etc.

So, in knowing this, I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume some posters want him to lose/fail.....and posters who dislike certain boxers will naturally be that bit more critical and scathing, as opposed to glowing and praising. I am evenly balanced with AJ. As a person he is ok. As a boxer he has strengths and weaknesses.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949334#Comment_117949334

Wilder has put Fury on his arse and on his back before though. One punch could do it for Wilder.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949393#Comment_117949393

Exactly. And it is something that logically need to be considered....

A lot referees would have waved off fight 1 in the 12th. Fury was longer down than Forearm was when Ali fought him.

A poster questioned why I backed Wilder via KO over Fury earlier here. Sure who wouldn't pick a KO type win if picking Wilder? It's kind of the obvious choice of win to pick for him.

Now, I am backing Fury via TKO mid type rds.......and who's to say that Wilder makes it 0-5 for me on Fury bets...:)

iebamm2580

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949393#Comment_117949393

Furys recovery that night for a guy who came back from 27st was incredible, miraculous even to do it when still not fighting fit, he got tagged clean enough early wilder 2 and walked through it, im not saying wilder cant ko him, of course he can but i dont think the first fight gave a realistic view of fury's recovery powers.

yourdeadwright

Anyone know much about Malik Scott as a coach ?

I had a look at his Instagram & he a bit off a odd dude,

Pictures of him coaching looking professional then loads picture in himself & his missus in there undies in different parts of the house , all a bit weird if you ask me,

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949538#Comment_117949538

Agree. And maybe not a realistic view of Wilders KO power, he didnt get to him in either fight like hes got to other fighters. If Wilder lands really clean it will be interesting. Ive absolutely no idea whats going to happen.

iebamm2580

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949799#Comment_117949799

Yeah true, that second left hand he landed before fury went down in fight1 was clean enough though, i know not his power hand, wilder also has to be worried about furys power now which he wasn't in the first fight, but that will def be in his head that he can be hurt now.

yourdeadwright

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949799#Comment_117949799

To be fair Wilder has fought Ortiz twice and that's it from the top 10 ( bar Fury )

Ortiz would have also put him away in there first fight if he wasn't 39 at the time ,

Since Wilder KO'd his trainer back in 2014 , he has had only 2 really quick Ko's Stiverne who was a fat pig & was two year retired & Breazeale which was a very good victory ,

Fury must have seen that and thought ye know what iv time to get out there and put it on him and that's what he done and will do again ,

OmegaGene

Alex the guy that manages Usyk has said Joshuas team have activated the rematch, part two should be another good fight

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117949538#Comment_117949538

that was a fantastic recovery and something i watch every now and then, the sheer determination in him to get up and fight on was amazing

meanwhile Wilder was there celebrating the victory

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950630#Comment_117950630

I really dont think that was a big punch, relatively. Fury was leaning down, got clipped with a short right and then hit with a left. Wasnt a KO punch, Fury was more tired than anything.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950630#Comment_117950630

The getting up wasn't the hard bit at all. He was down for 9-10 seconds. His attitude when action resumed was the real commendable part

He got up because he could get up. He was awake when he decided to get up. Natural reaction from anyone.

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117950852#Comment_117950852

I’m talking about getting up and fighting on like he did, everyone including wilder thought he was done

going from 27-28 stone getting floored and coming back and doing the job he did in the rematch will be remembered for years to come

walshb

He lost weight. Big deal. He’s a big man. Most of it was just pure gluttony. Eat proper and ease back into training and the weight falls off. Majority of it just excess flab

passatman86

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117951108#Comment_117951108

You would make a mint becoming a personal trainer lol

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117951254#Comment_117951254

I guess I could. Been weight managing many many years..

It’s not rocket science. Fury is 6 feet 9, and if he wasn’t a pro boxer he’d be easily walking around 300+ lbs.

He went off the rails on a gluttony buzz and gained 100 lbs or so on top of what his training/fighting weight was.

Loads boxers have done similar, relatively speaking. Hatton used to go up to 190 or so out of camp. Duran similar.

I don’t get the wow and awe because a big man gains weight and then loses it to resume his boxing career. It’s just flab/fat from gluttony.

Oh, and tens of millions of dollars being dangled in in front of you to get in shape? Talk about a walk in the park!!!

squinn2912

The Fury comeback has been fantastic. I don;t think it’s right or fair to dismiss it. Going ten stone overweight no matter what height he is was a serious depth to have to climb back out of.

Wilder has fought some utter turkeys. I just took a peep and Audley was his 28th fight, and that was like a billion years ago itself. He did have two (I think) Povetkin fights cancelled. He was on for going to Russia to fight him so I think he’s game enough. Ortiz is a good boxer who has been avoided those are two good wins. And many a ref would have called off the Fury fight, that would have been him getting out of jail big time (he did anyway) but it was insanely close to a victory. Imagine then he got a fight with Joshua and KO’d him too. Meanwhile Fury could’ve walked away or tried to get a rematch or whatever - the whole thing could’ve been changed very easily.

Anyhow I’m rambling...

walshb

I think the big three all have similar resumes. Fury and Wilder met each other, which differentiates them slightly from AJ, but now AJ has met Usyk, who many consider right close to number 1.

I think Fury at 1, Usyk 2 and AJ/Wilder equal.

By spring next year those ratings could change. What if Wilder wins next week and AJ wins the rematch…

As myself and others have noted, outside these 4 the division is just underwhelming.

walshb

Funny, as poor as I thought AJ was on Saturday, I still feel the exact same way about him and Wilder.

It is always going to a 1-3 rounds shootout. So, for AJ to win he has to go in to end it ASAP.

AJ goes in trying to box, then likely he gets taken out himself. He will hardly go 12 rds without tasting power

Kind of a 50-50, and if it was to go 12 rds, I'd be quite confident AJ wins a clean decision

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948260#Comment_117948260

You come across like you are 15 or 16 years of age. Grow up and discuss fighters instead of abusing people. You'll never get any respect for your opinions if you keep at that.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117948180#Comment_117948180

The Joshua we seen the other night was awful and he's been on a downward spiral for a while now.

Personally I think his only chance is to go back to being the big boy with massive power if he can do that again.

He has no hope trying to win a sparring match with Usyk. Only chance he has is to push him around the ring and try get him out of there before he gases.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954246#Comment_117954246

Yes, good points.....Simple: Needs to give it a "proper" go.

I did not see that Saturday, no matter how effective Usyk was, I was sitting there wondering when was AJ going to start fighting.

Will really look forward to the rematch. And, maybe Usyk will be even better....because if AJ isn't really up for it, he won't reverse the result

Cyrus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117954302#Comment_117954302

i had the same feeling, kept waiting for him to mount a sustained offence.

Watching it back when you know the outcome made it look a lot more comfortable for Usyk.

Blanco100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117947801#Comment_117947801

Did Loma tell him to go away? Probably lost in translation. Does it look like Bellew is being escorted out of the building there?

Blanco100

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117953910#Comment_117953910

Actually think Joshua should thread carefully in the opening rounds against Wilder, he doesn't have the head/upper body movement to pour it on for 3 rounds without getting tagged with something big himself. Tactics he used against Usyk would actually be better ironically enough, get behind the jab, a limited Wilder would leave an opening sooner or later.

Joshua is vulnerable in attack mode against decent fighters. A shoot out with Wilder (who may even be chinny himself) is the last thing Joshua would need.

Generally speaking, Joshua is a fighter who seemingly is unable to put it all together in one go. He was boxing defensively the other night and when he does this his offence is poor. Likewise, when he lets his hands go he is vulnerable to walking onto something. He works to a plan in the gym and there is no deviation when things don't go his way.

I know myself, I was a boxer, I had fast hands and quick feet, but using them at same time was a stretch for me, when my hands were moving quickly my feet were planted, when my feet were moving quickly I was not thinking about my hands. It wasn't in-sync so to speak. Theres a bit of this with Joshua in that he is unable to put it all together, the ring IQ isn't there to adapt outside of what his coach tells him to do.

The best fighters size you up, adapt and become more effective, try different things naturally based on what they are seeing.

The optics the other night were so bad too, when the bell went he slumped in the corner looking visibly distressed. Yet in the press conference he opined that he didn't know the outcome, and was waiting for judges decision. There is a huge chasm between the things AJ spouts (his false confidence/optimism) and the reality, he looked a proper beaten man at the bell, the cringe factor when he speaks like some kind of life coach is ridiculous.

His team should tell him to drop the amateur philosopher bullsh*t quick smart, or he will become a parody. Albeit a very rich one.