No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward

pixelburp · 23-09-2021 9:07am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927549#Comment_117927549

They did reshoots a while back, specifically to address the "out of date" product placement that was to be in the original theatrical release.

As to the projections, well for comparison F9 is sitting at $716 million so a few months onward and maybe yeah; not a crazy target (though I've ranted before about the insanity of 1 billion dollars being the benchmark for blockbuster success)

silverharp · 23-09-2021 9:17am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117927596#Comment_117927596

its the marketing side that always gets me, the film cost ~250m to make but the marketing is well in excess of $200m, its like the whole industry is competing with itself but making it harder to make a profit. 900m seems conservative if they are down possibly 500m on day 1

pixelburp · 23-09-2021 9:27am

Hey, there are whole books written about Hollywood Economics and the counter-intuitive scaling that goes on. And then every now and again you'll see a small, modestly budgeted film do gangbusters (like the Jumanji reboot, Joker or Escape Room, to name three) and yet Hollywood keeps swinging for these $200+ million budgets that have to make a billion to stay even.

Dades · 23-09-2021 9:43am

The marketing budget must be hugely inflated having to keep the buzz going for an extra 18 months.

But it's not as if there's a number they need to hit to guarantee a sequel (unlike Dune, for example). There will be another Bond movie.

py2006 · 23-09-2021 3:53pm

Apparently the director of this one has referred to Sean Connery's Bond as a 'rapist'...

silverharp · 23-09-2021 4:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929573#Comment_117929573

going by that logic the whole women's "romance" section might need to be rebranded lol

Mr Crispy · 23-09-2021 4:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929573#Comment_117929573

"Basically" a rapist. And he's not wrong.

FunLover18 · 23-09-2021 4:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929573#Comment_117929573

Yeh I fail to see a problem with this. The old Bond movies are renowned for their terrible treatment of female characters, this is hardly new.

pixelburp · 23-09-2021 4:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929573#Comment_117929573

The wording smells clickbait strong, but if you watch the old movies, Connery's Bond was ... oof. Very forceful at times. Thinking especially of the barn scene in Goldfinger; the kiss with Pussy Galore (Jesus, this sure ain't High Art folks) wasn't entirely consensual. Like, he was charming to a point but Bond was gonna get it, one way or the other.

Contextually, many movies of that era weren't any better, heroes often forcing themselves on the romantic target (my beloved North by Northwest, for instance, wasn't that far off that tone of "I'm going to kiss you know, stop fighting it"). Not many of those old films remain box office gold though - so they endure continuous retrospective review. Just par for the course.

loyatemu · 23-09-2021 4:59pm

wait until you hear about all the people he's killed!

pixelburp · 23-09-2021 5:07pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929867#Comment_117929867

Don't do that. It's not about absolutes, or trying to cancel Bond. Just that Connery could be a bit of a shít.

fitz · 23-09-2021 7:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929690#Comment_117929690

Rewatched the Craig movies in the lead up to the new one, and there's plenty of the same kind of thing. Finger sucking in Casino Royale, boat shower scene in Skyfall, pinning Monica Bellucci against a wall in Spectre... Craig's Bond is as much of a forceful creep as anything in the old movies.

FunLover18 · 23-09-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930423#Comment_117930423

In the CR shower scene, he is sucking the blood off her fingers, it's weird but I always read it as him taking the burden onto himself.

The other examples are definitely creepy especially after your one in Skyfall had just told him about her history as a child sex slave. The Bond franchise is still learning.

fitz · 23-09-2021 7:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930458#Comment_117930458

He really needed to suck her fingers to clean the blood off, under a running shower? It was creepy as.

FunLover18 · 23-09-2021 7:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117930464#Comment_117930464

She says to him "it won't come off", it's unclear in the shot if there is actually blood on there hands. It's is weird I won't deny it but I don't think it's meant to be overly sexual, it's made clear that it doesn't lead to anything.

FunLover18 · 24-09-2021 12:54am

https://twitter.com/007/status/1441017087737094146?s=19

Not the dress uniform we're used to seeing Bond in.

MisterAnarchy · 24-09-2021 11:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929573#Comment_117929573

Hmm, the guy obviously doesnt understand the character of Bond if he is coming out with stuff like that.

He shouldnt be left near directing a Bond film if thats his belief.

This new film sounds like its going to be a complete car crash.

4 main female characters, two black, one lesbian, one now 007.

I'm getting a really bad vibe, Bond is like a reckless bold boy who needs to be mothered by all these independent strong women.

MisterAnarchy · 24-09-2021 11:58am

Has Craig had some plastic surgey in the last few years, his face looks odd.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RRhhewFqyw

pixelburp · 24-09-2021 12:09pm

He looks like a fairly ordinary, 53-year-old man to me; don't forget Casino Royale was 15 years ago now ... when Craig was 38. That's a significant era for men to age across.

johnny_ultimate · 24-09-2021 12:13pm

What exactly is the maximum allowed number of main female characters? 2.75? 3.33? Just checking for future reference.

Mr Crispy · 24-09-2021 12:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932567#Comment_117932567

Please explain the character of Bond to me.

MisterAnarchy · 24-09-2021 12:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117932716#Comment_117932716

His face looks a bit rubbery and worn.

Cheeks are very puffed up.

I suppose he is maintaining a low body fat percentage for promotional stuff which might make his face look more worn.

The short hair doesnt help either.

It seems he had some plastic surgery in 2008 for injuries sustained whilst filming Quantum of Solace and there are rumoours he had more in 2018.

OU812 · 24-09-2021 1:10pm

Your one from fleabag was heavily involved in the script which probably adds a lot to the female influence we’re getting

silverharp · 24-09-2021 2:17pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117933082#Comment_117933082

I especially like the threat of shooting Bond in the knee, his good one, take that white patriarchy 🙃

The Black Oil · 24-09-2021 2:33pm

On Wittertainment the other week Simon Mayo said he had been offered an interview with Craig, but not access to the film. It's a longstanding rule of that parish that he sees films before interviews. He said things may change, hopefully they let him see it.

Dades · 25-09-2021 12:24am

Some people seem very vexed with the amount of women (some of whom a black!!) in a film they haven't seen.

Does that say more about the film, or the commentator?

alchemist33 · 25-09-2021 8:17am

If the black woman is Moneypenny, I think she's been an excellent addition.

Wedwood · 25-09-2021 8:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117929690#Comment_117929690

This retconning of classic movies through current ‘woke’ standards is appalling. In the times these movies were made, the love scenes were essentially Mills and Boons books acted out on screen. The idea of the leading Lady ‘being swept off her feet by the dashing hero’ which was a staple of those movies and not some grubby rape scene in disguise, current morons would have you believe.

One notable exception is the scene in Gone With The Wind, which made it clear what was happening.

pixelburp · 25-09-2021 9:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117936430#Comment_117936430

I don't think you're calling me a moron, but ...? I don't think you are but assuming those who reassess these things as "woke" is as inaccurate and reductionist as calling what Bond did as "rape". Bond is more than 50 years old; it's older than some countries, laws, it's the oldest franchise going. It can survive a little examination and thought experiments, otherwise it's not much of a franchise if it's that brittle.

Just cos something was the done thing, doesn't excuse the behaviour; even the most brazen PUA wouldn't try a tactic like Bond did with P Galore 🙂 you're going to kiss me, c'mere. Swoon? 😜

Feel like with these conversations I should point out I do have a fondness for the franchise - lest people think I'm some woke troll out for crusading. I just have mixed feelings, the films are not an absolute for me, and can parse the good and what I see is as bad. But at 50 years of age, some stuff has aged better than others - that's just life. View to a Kill remains a favourite for instance, depsite the famously lopsided age difference between the leads.

Actually anyone got a handy source for the comments ... cos I'd at least like to read the context, see if this is another case like with Scorcese vs. Marvel. Otherwise I'll dig it out myself.

FunLover18 · 25-09-2021 10:51am

Here's the link to the original article which is quite long.

" Perhaps the biggest hurdle for the film was bringing its globe-trotting lothario into Hollywood’s post-#MeToo reality. After all, No Time to Die began development in 2016, before the industry embarked on a period of self-reflection in the wake of Harvey Weinstein’s downfall for predatory behavior. Though Craig’s oeuvre puts a greater emphasis on the quality of drinks than the quantity of women, the history of Bond includes casual misogyny and worse.

“Is it Thunderball or Goldfinger where, like, basically Sean Connery’s character rapes a woman?” Fukunaga asks. “She’s like ‘No, no, no,’ and he’s like, ‘Yes, yes, yes.’ That wouldn’t fly today.” "

No Time to Die **Spoilers from post #1449 onward**

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No Time to Die Spoilers from post #1449 onward