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Heavyweight Boxing

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Certainly agree with your latter points. Not sure they want Fury Joshua cos they should be clamouring for it and they aren’t. The fashionable thing is to lick Joshuas ass and call Fury a lunatic in a veiled way. Neither are angels or demons imo.

    Fury shouting to get whyte is surprising but chisora is mind boggling



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Why would they not want it? Makes no sense. They aren’t his blood. They’re just pundits.

    It’s not like AJ has loads years left. And there are very few actual challenges outside of Wilder and Fury and Usyk..

    Hearn and AJ were trying to make the fight. It was done and dusted till Wilder ruined it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I honestly think AJ will and early and ko him

    Its going to be easy work and people will get over excited again about AJ, i just can't see Usyk keeping AJ off him or taking AJ's power



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I don't know as i said its bizarre but they always seem to talk the fight down and to suggest the Haye fight is just mental ,

    Only think that makes sense is they don't fancy AJ to beat Fury & if he does lose the gravy train takes a massive hit maybe want a few more gimme before the risk the golden goose ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    It still makes no sense...

    It's not like AJ hasn't been beaten.....he was shocked/humiliated by a fat Ruiz a few years ago.....the golden goose has already been goosed.

    What gravy train? The chap has had many PPV events. The Fury one would be biggest ever in boxing...

    AJ wants it. Hearn wants it. Fury wants it. The fans wants it. Why would Johnny Nelson not?

    And, win or lose they could absolutely sell a rematch......no matter what happens in fight 1. Still be a huge seller

    Ruiz beating AJ surely has shown them that he is far from invincible, so why would they be thinking of more gimme fights, and ones that could possibly cause an upset, which would dampen the desire and clamor for Fury/AJ.

    He's fighting the 3rd/4th best HW on earth next week.....some even think this chap is a real banana skin.

    I'm not buying this gimme nonsense...there is nobody left for AJ other than Fury and Wilder really...

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,129 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Whyte vs Wallin on October 30th. I can see Whyte losing that one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 242 ✭✭ACAguy


    AJ USYK

    WHYTE WALLIN

    FURY WILDER

    FURY HAMMER

    AJAGBA SANCHEZ

    HELENIUS KOWANCKI

    KABAYEL HUCK

    Decent fights before year end then we have Ruiz Ortiz Joyce Parker Chisora Hunter Dubois without fights hopefully some of them fight each other



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    3rd or 4th best heavy weight ?

    How or why ? Honestly what has he done to make you think he is even in the top 5 ?

    He barley beat a past it Chisora ,

    Uysk doesn't have the size or power to be a top heavy weight

    Can't see anyway he even makes 12 rounds with AJ , He doesn't even have a punchers chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am saying that this is what is being said and is perceived...I have not yet rated him, as to date he has not done anything

    He is actually ranked 10 by ring magazine, but really, he is better than Parker and Whyte, who are both ranked above him, and whom AJ has already beaten

    I'd also pick him t0 beat fat Ruiz and Ortiz and Joe Joyce; all these also above him...

    I'd favor him to beat all not named Fury and AJ....I even think he could beat Wilder.

    So to have a view that he is in the top 4/5 is not crazy....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    After watching his first two heavy weight fights i would fancy Whyte, Joyce, Ruiz & Ortiz to beat him

    Looks very ordinary if you rate him on his actually fights at the weight so far, All the above have the power to hurt him



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think he would adapt and adjuts and beat them all...fat plodding pressing-low Chisora was just stylistically bad for him, because he had not the power and strength to keep Chisora off him

    The other lads would suit Usyk far more, allowing him more time and space to pick them off. Joyce would be too easily hit.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    If myself & yourself can see that Usyk really struggled with Chisora style then you can bet the other lads & there coach's have also noticed,

    I just can't see him keeping any of them at bay long enough and he didn't have much power at cruiser weight so he isn't going to hurt nay of these big lads,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,930 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    And I'm sure Usyk and his coaches have studied it too and will have altered their strategy to best avoid these issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You need to factor in the styles of the boxers. Chisora is just a lump of non stop forward aggression. Awful style for most....he actually had no skill whatsoever to offer in the fight....he was simply an awful awkward and strong opponent.

    Usyk will have a far better chance against the others because they are not like Chisora at all.

    Ortiz is an old slow man.....no chance apart from a hail mary KO.

    Whyte and Ruiz aren't much bloody better....I am not saying Usky wins easily. He will be pressed hard to win, but he has too much speed, volume, stamina, movement for these lads.....they are just not at all that good.

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    But wasn't that the strategy in his first two fights to avoid being leaned on and bullied ?

    Personally the size & strength difference at heavy weight along with his lack of real power ,make his style of fighting far less effective ,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Apart from one punch power, Whyte, Ruiz, Ortiz and Joyce are just not as good as Usyk..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I don't think he beats them

    Your describing Usyk at cruiser weight against cruiser weights, So far it hasn't transferred over to heavy weight,

    Until he shows something i cant see it ,

    Whyte is a better bigger version of Chisora ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    And Whyte fights nothing at all like Chisora....

    Not sure why you have compared them here...Whyte is not a forward pressing awkward slob type fighter with his head around his waist looking at the floor

    Whyte is methodical, patient, upright fighter, who is nowhere near skilled enough to beat Usyk at boxing. So like I said, all he has is a KO chance.....I do not think he gets it, and this sees him lose via points or late stoppage.

    Whyte is bang average...and his Ring rating doesn't change that. Chisora is Chsora. Muck.......Whyte is Whyte. Little better than muck......as for them being remotely similar as fighters, they are not....Chisora's style a lot more probelmatic for Usyk

    Post edited by walshb on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Both big strong and like to take the fight to you

    Your selling Chisora short there he is quite clever about putting pressure on people & not quite as basic as your making out,

    I don't see Usyk beating Whyte at all, again his size and strength would be to much ,

    I reckon AJ makes short work of Usyk , who then goes down a few levels for a gimmie fight that he also struggles in ,he is not a heavy weight ,

    Look its all opinion till it happens ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I am not selling Chisora short at all...I have said it already, stylistically he is a very difficult foe for Usyk

    This is my whole point. He is still muck, with no skills. But his physical aggression and awkwardness and good stamina are perfect to cause an Usyk issues.

    Whyte's style is far better for Usyk to allow Usyk time and space to go to work and outbox Whyte

    I would be very confident that Usyk does a far cleaner number on Whyte.....all Whyte has is a possible lucky KO shot....He fails to land it and I see Usyk a clean winner.

    Post edited by walshb on


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Time shall tell, I reckon he stops Usyk inside 9

    I just don't get the Usyk hype he has looked awful at Heavy Weight for a guys who was so good at Cruiser weight,

    His best attributes don't help him much in the cross into land of the giants well in my opinion,

    Wouldn't mind be proven wrong as i like him as a bloke but we shall see ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Whyte stops Usyk in 9?

    Surely if Usyk is going 9 rds, then he is in the fight and likely landing more than Whyte?

    If you mean he stops him via a big shot, so be it....but I alluded to this already. It is his only chance

    And he's hardly a giant....about same height as Usyk, and fat.......

    Giants are AJ/WLAD/Vitali/Fury et al. Big men....not just heavy men due to them being fat.....

    Dillian Whyte is not that good.....he really isn't...an Usyk with his feet, stamina, volume and belief is a bad match for Dillian Whyte...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Parker-Chisora II on DAZN Dec 18....gives me the fooking shivers!!!!!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,129 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    Can't wait for that one. I don't think I've been more excited about a rematch since Bellew vs Cleverly 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I don't think Whyte is great myself but as i said Usyk hasn't show anything in his first 2 heavy weight fights ,

    In my opinion Whyte will come after him and wear him down and stop him within 9 , Usyk will start well for 2 rounds or 3 rounds but his lack of power will start to tell as Whyte becomes less cautious & starts to get to him,

    Now of course that could all changed if Usyk shows us something we haven't seen yet against AJ

    My opinion is based on what we have seen at heavy weight so far,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I don't think wearing Usyk down will work for Whyte. Usyk has excellent feet and conditioning....these two traits are exactly what do not allow a plodder like Whyte do what you are saying...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Chisora found Usyk regularly in there so there is no reason Whyte can't &he hits harder,

    Yes Chisora fights differently but we seen in Whyte v Chisroa 1 that Whyte could fight Chisora at his own game and win

    Honestly until Usyk does something at heavyweight i can't see how anyone can back him ,

    The AJ fight could change that & i hope Usyk wins to be honest,

    That my thoughts anyway



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    Fair play to Joshua for taking this fight. Its a real banana skin. He won't have faced anyone as skillful as Usyk.

    Size differential yes, but he needs to be in range. Agree with Walshb about Chisora, he makes anyone look awful, and I actually give Usyk credit for taking that fight as hes the last guy i'd fight if I wanted to look good.

    I think AJ needs to get the job done early to be honest, if Usyk settles and adjusts then he could potentially really school AJ. Expecting Joshua to take over after the mid rounds against a guy like Usyk who has an unlimited gas tank, is wishful thinking. Joshua won't have experienced the movement of Usyk before, its a fascinating fight. Don't forget Ruiz is not a noted puncher and had AJ seeing stars, not outlandish to think Usyk could KO AJ in a heavyweight bout, where guys are bigger but not as skilled in fairness.

    They say a good big un always beats a good little un. I think we are seeing a good big un against a great little un, thats what makes it fascinating for me.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I was very much thinking AJ blasts Usyk away a few months back. Now I am thinking the fight could be closer.

    It won't be a big shock if Usyk beats him. If Usyk can be slippy enough to avoid heavy leather, he is more than capable of being competitive, and AJ has not got a great chin. Look how he has reacted in the past from shots....Usyk isn't dynamite, but he can still punch a little....

    I will go with AJ inside 5 rounds via KO, because I believe he has the perfect blend of size, speed, variation and very good power to land on Usyk cleanly. AJ will also be physically stronger in the clinch, as well as very dangerous in close.

    Usyk could surprise me if he can take the firepower, and if he can, then he is in with a rea good shout via points or stoppage

    Intriguing fight. And if not, sure at least we have Campbell Hatton to look forward to......



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,877 ✭✭✭squinn2912


    Very eloquent from Blanco there but the last person I saw saying that was Audly Harrison. I enjoy Usyk but this talk of greatness I feel is sill premature. Undisputed CW champion is impressive and there was no one to threaten him left there but was that division that strong during his era? He looks nothing like great at HW. I’d love to be wrong but I think that Joshua will catch up with him and it will be a brutal ko after a few rounds of Usyk looking clean and tidy. I was thinking 7-9. If Usyk can stay out of clinches that long.

    The rest of the card is dirt. Betting odds are about 1/10 at best which says enough. Hopefully there will be at least one big upset to make things interesting.

    I got my weeks messed up and thought it was tomorrow. Gutted.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 823 ✭✭✭Coneygree


    If Covid didn't derail things I'd be confident on Usyk springing the upset. Now I am not so sure. Usyk is 34 and with a style like his it is going to be a factor. His cardio and gas tank is like nothing I've seen in a long while for a big lad so maybe it won't matter too much. I think he has good whiskers although Joshua definitely hits as hard as anyone he's faced. Usyk definitely allows himself to get hit but one of his biggest strengths is being able to ride a punch well. Even if he's too late to dodge a punch he's nearly always telegraphed it by the time it lands so he gets away with it. It's a great fight, I've never enjoyed Joshua as a fighter or as a persona, whereas Usyk is hilarious and one of the most satisfying boxers to watch since his amateur days.


    I'm afraid that Usyk will need a stoppage or a shutout to get a win though. Everyone knows the Joshua/Fury fight is the one, and Usyk winning **** everything. Hopefully I am wrong but I don't think so...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I see Wilder had Helenius in as a sparring partner,

    Not sure if it will help him much but he is a decent heavy weight ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Any guesses on AJs weight and Usyk's?

    AJ looking leaner and less bulky this time. Something he has spoken about for this fight

    I think he may be sub 240 lbs for this...possibly 237/238



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    He was 240 last time out ,so id say your almost spot on

    Can't see him being 235 or under,

    I reckon Usyk will be 219/20 lbs just up on last time ( i think he was 217lbs ) it's what 10/11 months on so i'd say had time to get used to carrying more weight,



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    Actually think AJ's best move was to come in big (well his usual size) and win it in first 4 rounds. Make that size and weight advantage count.

    Usyk is coming up to his weightclass, coming in leaner hints at him trying to box Usyk which is the wrong move in my opinion.

    Whenever I hear Joshua speak, I hear a fella absolutely riddled with self doubt and doing his absolute best to talk up how much he loves a scrap, loves adversity etc.... its like he has become an amateur philosopher with some of the stuff he spouts.

    But honestly, fair play for taking this fight, in fairness id say he'd have lost one of his belts if he didn't take it, this will be a real test.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭The Floyd p


    I agree that it'd serve him well, but he said he worried about being too big and fatiguing against Usyk, noting that he's facing a 15 round fighter.

    A part of me thinks he'll have enough size at 240 to balance longevity and power. Any attempt to out-manoeuvre Usyk is almost guaranteed to fail.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Yeah I think Joshua coming in light shows how difficult he knows it's going to be to hurt Usyk and that this fight more than likely goes rounds. He doesn't want to be carrying all that excess muscle in the latter rounds which naturally leads to fatigue like we saw against Klitschko.


    Always fancied Usyk to win this and still do but very intrigued to see who the ref & judges are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think a possible issue here for Usyk could be that he tastes the power and it affects his own offense.

    We could see Usyk spending large parts of the fight defending and spoiling, with AJ not having to work too hard, and controlling the flow.

    Another thing: folks seem to think Usyk is clearly the better boxer. Nonsense. AJ can absolutely box with anyone. There should be no surprise to see AJ deservedly win on points whilst out-boxing Usyk. Remember, he has height, reach, power advantages.

    AJ was ahead on points against Wlad 4 years ago, and Wlad could still box very well.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    Excellent point in relation to AJ potentially not having to work as hard, once Usyk feels his power, being so wary of it will have to affect his offence.

    I would argue though that Usyk is the better boxer, not markedly so, but there is a difference in quality. Now AJ's size may render that obsolete, as has happened with many a smaller man moving up.

    I just think the skill level with todays heavys is so low (Fury is probably most skillful so the bar is low) that Usyk has a real chance in that AJ won't have faced anything like him. Its incomparable with any of his previous fights, although the Parker fight may be the closest, albeit Usyk will definitely give a better account of himself than Parker.

    I'm contradicting my previous post (where I said AJ needed to come in big and pour it on for 4 rounds), there is method in preparing for 12 round fight by AJ, I expect that Usyk believes his best chance is points win or late stoppage.

    Its a fascinating fight, don't expect it to be a classic but the tactical battle will be very interesting. Firmly believe its a good big un v. a great little un.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,190 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    would Ruiz not be the most comparable to Usyk, smaller man, better movement, faster hands?

    I expect AJ to walk through Usyk, but if it doesnt go his way early it could be an interesting scrap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    If AJ himself thought he'd walk through Usyk would he not have come in heavier and look to finish it early?

    Joshua is an overrated puncher. Couldn't put a dent in Ruiz, Parker, Takam (awful stoppage). It's heavyweight boxing so there's always a chance but I'd be surprised if this fight doesn't go rounds.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    My main worries around Usyk would be how inactive and how many injuries he's had of late. His body feels like it could break down at any stage and he can't afford to pick up an injury in there on Saturday night like he did against Chisora. The fact he's linked back up with Anatoly Lomachenko makes me think he'll be on song for this one though. Also cornered him for his career best performance against Gassiev.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I just can't see Usyk dealing with the size and power, I think Aj makes it look easy ,

    Lack of power is a huge disadvantage & his normal stellar gas tank will be depleted from taking heavy shots,

    I hope im wrong and Usyk wins but i just don't think he transfers well into being a heavy weight ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    AJ is quite a heavy hitter....giving examples where he didn't take guys out doesn't change that. The chap has heavy hands. Look what he did to many, including a very tough Povetkin. Pulverized him with power shots. Wlad couldn't do that. AJ is circa 245 lbs of size and weight and power, and he knows how to throw power shots. He has very good punch mechanics.

    Ruiz has a solid beard. AJ decided to box him for 12 rds in fight 2. Takam was deservedly stopped. He was quite staggered and hurt

    Parker ran and spoiled for 12 rds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,808 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    I agree for the most part but lets not forget Wlad fought a 34 year old AVP on the Jesus juice , AJ fought a 39 year old AVP off the Jesus juice ,



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,908 ✭✭✭Morrison J


    Wouldn't deny he's a heavy hitter at all (he definitely is) just don't think he's this elite puncher that saws through top level fighters that he's being hyped up to be.

    More of a decent puncher, great finisher for me. I just think he's going to find it much more difficult to pin Usyk down and hurt him than many on here believe. The Chisora fight played out in a completely different style to how this one will go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I don't buy either these excuses....AVP is one tough man, whatever juice he was or was not on; and nobody can know what he was on at any time. I do not believe that it has been established that AVP was juicing in the Wlad fight.

    Anyway, just look at the impact of the shots and this will tell you that AJ is very heavy handed. Look at the impact on the Pulev KO shot...

    AJs KO percentage is very high. His visible power is very clear. I don't think he at all overrated as a puncher. He is a big puncher.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 56,619 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    These two key questions could well be what decides this fight: 1. Can Usyk take the power? 2: Can he avoid it (if not able for it)?

    Problem I see that he could have is that he ends up doing a Parker on it, and spoiling to avoid the power, resulting in very little offence

    Similar to his LW stablemate, Lomachenko when Lomachenko met Lopez. Spending large parts the fight not wanting to taste any power. In a shell, and losing rds



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,190 ✭✭✭✭Cyrus


    i am probably way off but i see it being cagey enough for say 4 rounds, Aj gets to him a little in 5 & 6 and its all over by 8 at the latest, knock out.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,933 ✭✭✭Blanco100


    I just don't see this, I could be wrong. But I think alot of fans have Usyk down as just another overhyped Eastern European fighter who is really stepping up in class.

    Also this talk of AJ coming in leaner helping his stamina, Usyk would be best advised to work every minute of every round to test this theory. Some guys just naturally have a poor gas tank, no matter what they weigh, how well they train. Some are built for speed and destruction, others are built for endurance, Usyk is definitely the latter.

    I don't doubt AJ can go 12 rounds, but its usually at his own pace. The worry for AJ is that i'd imagine Usyk will feel him out for 3-4 rounds and then maybe start stepping on the gas, and by stepping on the gas I don't mean throwing the kitchen sink at him, I mean moving him around, having AJ chasing shadows trying to land something meaningful.

    Usyk is an elite level fighter and I don't envisage AJ walking through him like some say he will, but Usyk is a slow starter, i'd be in AJs ear to get in there and catch him cold, I wonder if all this talk about slimming down and trying to box him is a bit of a ruse, and he will rush him from the bell.



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