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Heavyweight Boxing



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    After watching his first two heavy weight fights i would fancy Whyte, Joyce, Ruiz & Ortiz to beat him

    Looks very ordinary if you rate him on his actually fights at the weight so far, All the above have the power to hurt him

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    I think he would adapt and adjuts and beat them all...fat plodding pressing-low Chisora was just stylistically bad for him, because he had not the power and strength to keep Chisora off him

    The other lads would suit Usyk far more, allowing him more time and space to pick them off. Joyce would be too easily hit.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    If myself & yourself can see that Usyk really struggled with Chisora style then you can bet the other lads & there coach's have also noticed,

    I just can't see him keeping any of them at bay long enough and he didn't have much power at cruiser weight so he isn't going to hurt nay of these big lads,

  • Registered Users Posts: 33,633 ✭✭✭✭ eagle eye

    And I'm sure Usyk and his coaches have studied it too and will have altered their strategy to best avoid these issues.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    You need to factor in the styles of the boxers. Chisora is just a lump of non stop forward aggression. Awful style for most....he actually had no skill whatsoever to offer in the fight....he was simply an awful awkward and strong opponent.

    Usyk will have a far better chance against the others because they are not like Chisora at all.

    Ortiz is an old slow chance apart from a hail mary KO.

    Whyte and Ruiz aren't much bloody better....I am not saying Usky wins easily. He will be pressed hard to win, but he has too much speed, volume, stamina, movement for these lads.....they are just not at all that good.

    Post edited by walshb on

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  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    But wasn't that the strategy in his first two fights to avoid being leaned on and bullied ?

    Personally the size & strength difference at heavy weight along with his lack of real power ,make his style of fighting far less effective ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Apart from one punch power, Whyte, Ruiz, Ortiz and Joyce are just not as good as Usyk..

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I don't think he beats them

    Your describing Usyk at cruiser weight against cruiser weights, So far it hasn't transferred over to heavy weight,

    Until he shows something i cant see it ,

    Whyte is a better bigger version of Chisora ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    And Whyte fights nothing at all like Chisora....

    Not sure why you have compared them here...Whyte is not a forward pressing awkward slob type fighter with his head around his waist looking at the floor

    Whyte is methodical, patient, upright fighter, who is nowhere near skilled enough to beat Usyk at boxing. So like I said, all he has is a KO chance.....I do not think he gets it, and this sees him lose via points or late stoppage.

    Whyte is bang average...and his Ring rating doesn't change that. Chisora is Chsora. Muck.......Whyte is Whyte. Little better than for them being remotely similar as fighters, they are not....Chisora's style a lot more probelmatic for Usyk

    Post edited by walshb on

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Both big strong and like to take the fight to you

    Your selling Chisora short there he is quite clever about putting pressure on people & not quite as basic as your making out,

    I don't see Usyk beating Whyte at all, again his size and strength would be to much ,

    I reckon AJ makes short work of Usyk , who then goes down a few levels for a gimmie fight that he also struggles in ,he is not a heavy weight ,

    Look its all opinion till it happens ,

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  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    I am not selling Chisora short at all...I have said it already, stylistically he is a very difficult foe for Usyk

    This is my whole point. He is still muck, with no skills. But his physical aggression and awkwardness and good stamina are perfect to cause an Usyk issues.

    Whyte's style is far better for Usyk to allow Usyk time and space to go to work and outbox Whyte

    I would be very confident that Usyk does a far cleaner number on Whyte.....all Whyte has is a possible lucky KO shot....He fails to land it and I see Usyk a clean winner.

    Post edited by walshb on

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Time shall tell, I reckon he stops Usyk inside 9

    I just don't get the Usyk hype he has looked awful at Heavy Weight for a guys who was so good at Cruiser weight,

    His best attributes don't help him much in the cross into land of the giants well in my opinion,

    Wouldn't mind be proven wrong as i like him as a bloke but we shall see ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Whyte stops Usyk in 9?

    Surely if Usyk is going 9 rds, then he is in the fight and likely landing more than Whyte?

    If you mean he stops him via a big shot, so be it....but I alluded to this already. It is his only chance

    And he's hardly a giant....about same height as Usyk, and fat.......

    Giants are AJ/WLAD/Vitali/Fury et al. Big men....not just heavy men due to them being fat.....

    Dillian Whyte is not that good.....he really isn' Usyk with his feet, stamina, volume and belief is a bad match for Dillian Whyte...

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Parker-Chisora II on DAZN Dec me the fooking shivers!!!!!

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,118 ✭✭✭ normanoffside

    Can't wait for that one. I don't think I've been more excited about a rematch since Bellew vs Cleverly 2.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I don't think Whyte is great myself but as i said Usyk hasn't show anything in his first 2 heavy weight fights ,

    In my opinion Whyte will come after him and wear him down and stop him within 9 , Usyk will start well for 2 rounds or 3 rounds but his lack of power will start to tell as Whyte becomes less cautious & starts to get to him,

    Now of course that could all changed if Usyk shows us something we haven't seen yet against AJ

    My opinion is based on what we have seen at heavy weight so far,

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    I don't think wearing Usyk down will work for Whyte. Usyk has excellent feet and conditioning....these two traits are exactly what do not allow a plodder like Whyte do what you are saying...

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    Chisora found Usyk regularly in there so there is no reason Whyte can't &he hits harder,

    Yes Chisora fights differently but we seen in Whyte v Chisroa 1 that Whyte could fight Chisora at his own game and win

    Honestly until Usyk does something at heavyweight i can't see how anyone can back him ,

    The AJ fight could change that & i hope Usyk wins to be honest,

    That my thoughts anyway

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ Blanco100

    Fair play to Joshua for taking this fight. Its a real banana skin. He won't have faced anyone as skillful as Usyk.

    Size differential yes, but he needs to be in range. Agree with Walshb about Chisora, he makes anyone look awful, and I actually give Usyk credit for taking that fight as hes the last guy i'd fight if I wanted to look good.

    I think AJ needs to get the job done early to be honest, if Usyk settles and adjusts then he could potentially really school AJ. Expecting Joshua to take over after the mid rounds against a guy like Usyk who has an unlimited gas tank, is wishful thinking. Joshua won't have experienced the movement of Usyk before, its a fascinating fight. Don't forget Ruiz is not a noted puncher and had AJ seeing stars, not outlandish to think Usyk could KO AJ in a heavyweight bout, where guys are bigger but not as skilled in fairness.

    They say a good big un always beats a good little un. I think we are seeing a good big un against a great little un, thats what makes it fascinating for me.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    I was very much thinking AJ blasts Usyk away a few months back. Now I am thinking the fight could be closer.

    It won't be a big shock if Usyk beats him. If Usyk can be slippy enough to avoid heavy leather, he is more than capable of being competitive, and AJ has not got a great chin. Look how he has reacted in the past from shots....Usyk isn't dynamite, but he can still punch a little....

    I will go with AJ inside 5 rounds via KO, because I believe he has the perfect blend of size, speed, variation and very good power to land on Usyk cleanly. AJ will also be physically stronger in the clinch, as well as very dangerous in close.

    Usyk could surprise me if he can take the firepower, and if he can, then he is in with a rea good shout via points or stoppage

    Intriguing fight. And if not, sure at least we have Campbell Hatton to look forward to......

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,776 ✭✭✭ squinn2912

    Very eloquent from Blanco there but the last person I saw saying that was Audly Harrison. I enjoy Usyk but this talk of greatness I feel is sill premature. Undisputed CW champion is impressive and there was no one to threaten him left there but was that division that strong during his era? He looks nothing like great at HW. I’d love to be wrong but I think that Joshua will catch up with him and it will be a brutal ko after a few rounds of Usyk looking clean and tidy. I was thinking 7-9. If Usyk can stay out of clinches that long.

    The rest of the card is dirt. Betting odds are about 1/10 at best which says enough. Hopefully there will be at least one big upset to make things interesting.

    I got my weeks messed up and thought it was tomorrow. Gutted.

  • Registered Users Posts: 813 ✭✭✭ Coneygree

    If Covid didn't derail things I'd be confident on Usyk springing the upset. Now I am not so sure. Usyk is 34 and with a style like his it is going to be a factor. His cardio and gas tank is like nothing I've seen in a long while for a big lad so maybe it won't matter too much. I think he has good whiskers although Joshua definitely hits as hard as anyone he's faced. Usyk definitely allows himself to get hit but one of his biggest strengths is being able to ride a punch well. Even if he's too late to dodge a punch he's nearly always telegraphed it by the time it lands so he gets away with it. It's a great fight, I've never enjoyed Joshua as a fighter or as a persona, whereas Usyk is hilarious and one of the most satisfying boxers to watch since his amateur days.

    I'm afraid that Usyk will need a stoppage or a shutout to get a win though. Everyone knows the Joshua/Fury fight is the one, and Usyk winning **** everything. Hopefully I am wrong but I don't think so...

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    I see Wilder had Helenius in as a sparring partner,

    Not sure if it will help him much but he is a decent heavy weight ,

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    Any guesses on AJs weight and Usyk's?

    AJ looking leaner and less bulky this time. Something he has spoken about for this fight

    I think he may be sub 240 lbs for this...possibly 237/238

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,443 ✭✭✭✭ yourdeadwright

    He was 240 last time out ,so id say your almost spot on

    Can't see him being 235 or under,

    I reckon Usyk will be 219/20 lbs just up on last time ( i think he was 217lbs ) it's what 10/11 months on so i'd say had time to get used to carrying more weight,

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ Blanco100

    Actually think AJ's best move was to come in big (well his usual size) and win it in first 4 rounds. Make that size and weight advantage count.

    Usyk is coming up to his weightclass, coming in leaner hints at him trying to box Usyk which is the wrong move in my opinion.

    Whenever I hear Joshua speak, I hear a fella absolutely riddled with self doubt and doing his absolute best to talk up how much he loves a scrap, loves adversity etc.... its like he has become an amateur philosopher with some of the stuff he spouts.

    But honestly, fair play for taking this fight, in fairness id say he'd have lost one of his belts if he didn't take it, this will be a real test.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ The Floyd p

    I agree that it'd serve him well, but he said he worried about being too big and fatiguing against Usyk, noting that he's facing a 15 round fighter.

    A part of me thinks he'll have enough size at 240 to balance longevity and power. Any attempt to out-manoeuvre Usyk is almost guaranteed to fail.

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,782 ✭✭✭ Morrison J

    Yeah I think Joshua coming in light shows how difficult he knows it's going to be to hurt Usyk and that this fight more than likely goes rounds. He doesn't want to be carrying all that excess muscle in the latter rounds which naturally leads to fatigue like we saw against Klitschko.

    Always fancied Usyk to win this and still do but very intrigued to see who the ref & judges are.

  • Registered Users Posts: 48,381 ✭✭✭✭ walshb

    I think a possible issue here for Usyk could be that he tastes the power and it affects his own offense.

    We could see Usyk spending large parts of the fight defending and spoiling, with AJ not having to work too hard, and controlling the flow.

    Another thing: folks seem to think Usyk is clearly the better boxer. Nonsense. AJ can absolutely box with anyone. There should be no surprise to see AJ deservedly win on points whilst out-boxing Usyk. Remember, he has height, reach, power advantages.

    AJ was ahead on points against Wlad 4 years ago, and Wlad could still box very well.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,919 ✭✭✭ Blanco100

    Excellent point in relation to AJ potentially not having to work as hard, once Usyk feels his power, being so wary of it will have to affect his offence.

    I would argue though that Usyk is the better boxer, not markedly so, but there is a difference in quality. Now AJ's size may render that obsolete, as has happened with many a smaller man moving up.

    I just think the skill level with todays heavys is so low (Fury is probably most skillful so the bar is low) that Usyk has a real chance in that AJ won't have faced anything like him. Its incomparable with any of his previous fights, although the Parker fight may be the closest, albeit Usyk will definitely give a better account of himself than Parker.

    I'm contradicting my previous post (where I said AJ needed to come in big and pour it on for 4 rounds), there is method in preparing for 12 round fight by AJ, I expect that Usyk believes his best chance is points win or late stoppage.

    Its a fascinating fight, don't expect it to be a classic but the tactical battle will be very interesting. Firmly believe its a good big un v. a great little un.