Heavyweight Boxing

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482876#Comment_120482876

I watched that fight last week, watched Zhang's last five fights. I'd agree it was a draw. Zhang had 10-8's in the first three rounds and won two other rounds. Forrest won the other seven in my estimation and that gives Zhang a one point win but nobody could disagree with a draw.

It looks like they gave Zhang a 10-9 in rounds 1,2 or 3.

reclose

I’d like to see Zhang get a money fight now. Maybe AJ during the summer would have been good but he’s not fighting until December.

I was guilty of judging him by boxrec until today.

I watched him versus the croatian earlier and you could argue he won that.

He looks handy enough and throws some nice shots when he puts them together.

I rewatched Joyce vs Dubois too, DDD did better than I remembered. He landed good shots at times.

Joyce is a good guy but I just don’t see him winning a belt with Fury, Usyk and Wilder about.

AJ would be a close fight.

ebbsy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482885#Comment_120482885

Joyce would not have seen it anyway.

Funny every time the doc is called the crowd start booing !!!

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482895#Comment_120482895

I read on another forum that Zhang had kidney problems during that fight. No idea if true.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482905#Comment_120482905

I've no idea either but it looked like going a similar route tonight if not for Joyce's eye. Zhang was visibly tiring.

OmegaGene

Joyce didn’t seem to have a plan at all, his boxing iq skills were lacking, I can’t see how gaining weight to push Zhang around will help because Zhang was hurting him at range. After the first round joyce was told by his trainer he was asleep, he didn’t really seem to wake up either.

usyk v Zhang will be interesting

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482932#Comment_120482932

Joyce got inside and got caught on his way out because he didn't have the power to push away. The extra weight helps with that.

OmegaGene

Stats don’t always show how the fight went but from this it looks like the smarter fighter beat the busier fighter

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482952#Comment_120482952

Exactly how I saw it. Joyce busier, but with not near the quality or substance of Zhang. He was exposed. I never rated Joe highly. Really admire his style, but don’t rate it. Comes to fight. But just far too predictable, ponderous and slow.

Brock Turnpike

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482857#Comment_120482857

Why are you moving the goalposts? You said "Joyce was ahead on the cards".

squinn2912

Joyce’s tactics were absent tonight and he didn’t get going in time. He knew Zhang would be dangerous early on and he played into that. Zhang was so much stronger and couldn’t be bullied as much with volume. His tank isn’t great though so if Joe hadn’t led with his face he’d have easily won. But he did. He’s too open. I’ve always thought the overhand rigjt was the shot against him but that straight left destroyed him tonight. Frampton called it well for me. Not only did he have the eye issue but he was also hurt. Credit to him it was bad and he didn’t give in but at 37 he couldn’t. In interview he spoke very well afterwards. Dillian wasn’t long doing a runner after the fight, hadn’t much interest in fighting Zhang anyhow.

so should Joe take a rematch? Would be ballsy. His next fight is key.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120482985#Comment_120482985

I'm not moving the goalposts, I score every fight and he was ahead on my card. I expect all cards from these judges to be the same or at least close over a whole fight.

If these judges were marking bigger shots over volume of scoring punches then they are doing their job wrong.

The compubox numbers back me up.

Round 1 Zhang had 14 scoring punches to 4 for Joyce.

Round 2 Zhang had 16 scoring punches to 15 for Joyce. In this situation you look at what you marked as bigger hits. Zhang landed 14 to 9 for Joyce.

Round 3 Joyce landed 23 to 15 for Zhang.

Round 4 Joyce 18 to 15 for Zhang

Round 5 Joyce 21 to 13 for Zhang

I said Zhang won 1 and 2 and Joyce won 3, 4 and 5. The numbers back up my scoring of the fight.

lbunnae

I'd say that's the end of Joyce, he was shite.

Rjd2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483099#Comment_120483099

styles makes fights and he was just all wrong for Zhang sadly.

I would advise him to swerve the rematch and maybe fight Whyte hopefully get a flashy win and then maybe he might get a money fight with Joshua and Fury which he would not win but at least he would get paid.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483109#Comment_120483109

Yeah that's a good shout to be fair , definitely swerve the rematch

walshb

Just on the cards: I have no real issue with the cards, as I reckon Joyce was being rewarded purely for effort and workrate; and Zhang was taking breathers.

So on a rd to rd basis, Joyce was deserving of some rds. But as regards action, substance and superiority, it was Zhang clearly ahead. And it was Zhang’s punching that closed the eye and got the fight stopped!! So Joyce really was well beaten!!

squinn2912

Zhang was going to have to have knockdowns to be winning on points. I think it’s a toss up either one was winning 3-2. When Zhang had that big target thats all he needed to aim for. F*ck the rounds just dont be stupid and walk into anything big, no way that eye was making it through the fight. After 5 rounds one guy had to be pulled out of the fight, that;s about as convincing as it gets. Trying to argue otherwise is like arguing for Kahn against Canelo. Silliness.

OmegaGene

joyce was talking to talk sport in the ring after the fight and mentioned another fight before a possible rematch, his mum chirped in asking why the doctor was not called for dubois to check his eye and he gave her a little comment to be quiet

mums and their sons hey

on a serious not joyce took some serious shots and his head snapped back loads, i know people say he has great punch resistance but at 37 he needs to be careful using a face for defence, joyve is such a likeable guy but i am not sure what his best plan is from here, whyte stadium fight in the summer would make a few quid for him.

walshb

An AJ landing with full intent and a Wilder with intent would KO Joyce..

Usyk woukd run rings around him. Fury could beat him blindfolded.

squinn2912

Any of them watching that last night would adore a crack at him to look good.

Joyce needs to see about that eye before worrying about who he fights. Another loss and what’s left for him? Title shot is likely gone.

Anyone seen or heard from Whyte since? Like a rat up a drainpipe when the thing didn’t suit him

Mantis Toboggan

His defence for that left hand was dreadful, wonder what he was doing in sparring. Certainly puts the brakes on his career for now.

PJ2022

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483058#Comment_120483058

You have to know boxing scoring is not as simplistic as who landed the most?

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483542#Comment_120483542

He's an expert and anyone who disagrees is wrong. Same on the MMA threads.

OmegaGene

george warren said they have a contract with zhang now which was a smart move

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483418#Comment_120483418

https://youtu.be/iGIDdSI2u24

skip the first 30 seconds

US3

Joyce should listen to eagle eye as he himself thinks he was losing the fight before the stoppage.

Bobby Baccala

Now we can see why Zhang has been avoided by everyone! Clinical stuff altogether, the man hits like a train.

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483955#Comment_120483955

John Wayne the Quiet Man today hahaha

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484011#Comment_120484011

I dont remember much about him before about 5 years ago. I’m not sure he’s that unbeatable himself. No tank anyhow. I think all of the top guys should be beating him. I think Joyce himself would win the rematch. He got a mini lesson with Jennings when he got a sickener to the stomach and then he kept distance. Everyone else has been too easy. After Parker they should have been trying to improve his defence but instead he went again with the face first approach and got taught a real lesson last night. The fact that he picked up a couple of rounds is pretty meaningless because he had to really chase it knowing that eye was banjaxed. Next up he has to regroup and fight a knock over, I’d be very surprised if he goes with the rematch right away anyhow. But that takes him to a good 38, maybe it’s rematch or bust now.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483542#Comment_120483542

Please explain it to me. Lol.

Bobby Baccala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484099#Comment_120484099

Zhang has an Olympic silver and is huge and clearly knows what he’s at so maybe he’s had a hard time getting matched up with the big names. At this stage of his career he’s definitely beatable.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120483955#Comment_120483955

Did you ever hear fighters saying they won fights after it was over and their opponents hand had been raised.

Basically it's impossible for a fighter to know how a fight is going.

Joyce took some big punches that hurt him so I can understand him thinking he was losing.

I see anybody trying to dismiss my views hasn't argued about compubox.

OmegaGene

Was he really being avoided ? He hits like a train yes but a decent boxer would have good head movement 🤷‍♂️

people like Sam jones who used to manage Joe said joyce was being avoided too but realistically he was a fighter with little to offer financially for anyone and only when he became interim was he being spoken about by the bigger fighters

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484145#Comment_120484145

Perhaps. He’s fought a lot in USA so he’s done all from his own end anyhow to try to force things. Him and Ortiz would have been a good contest back a. While ago. I never watched him much until recently. He’d have been dangerous for someone like Wlad but anyone good would box his head off as long as they avoided him. Easier said than done. He’s in the who needs him club I suppose

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484150#Comment_120484150

I wouldn’t dismiss your views, but more dismiss your excuses.

I had it 4-1 Zhang after 5, and wouldn’t argue against 3/2 Zhang. This based off pure 10-9 must system per rd.

The wider picture that I think you either can’t see, or don’t want to see is how Joyce was clearly inferior last night during the 15-18 mins of action against a good opponent (but not at all great).

Of the 15-18 mins when both were trying, Joyce was losing every minute… Joyce really only had his success when Zhang had to take breathers. That’s what I, and others clearly saw. He was outclassed

squinn2912

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484150#Comment_120484150

You will look a whole lot more credible if you admit to being completely wrong about this fight. Humble pie doesn’t taste great it seems. This I’m still right anyway nonsense is draining.

Bobby Baccala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484162#Comment_120484162

Zhang is no random journeyman bud he’s definitely more than a “decent boxer”. Just schooled one of the highest rated British heavyweights.

OmegaGene

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484180#Comment_120484180

you didn’t read my post properly so I will try to explain it again

I’m saying Zhang hits like a train yes , but a decent boxer (not joyce) would have good head movement and moved out of the way

joyce just allowed him to land punches offering no defence at all it was a poor game plan from him to use his face as a defence

walshb

Joe last night made AJ look like Pea Whitaker!!!

Bobby Baccala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484196#Comment_120484196

Nah mate you didn’t type your post properly and that’s why you’re explaining it again, but that’s okay.

Still doesn’t have much relevance anyway you can’t let Joyce’s poor gameplan take away from what Zhang can do. If it was that easy to jab the eye off Joyce why hasnt anyone else done it?

OmegaGene

Who has he fought of note apart from a half finished Parker 🤷‍♂️ Zhang was the best boxer he has fought so far that’s why

joyce was never going to set the world on fire with that style for long in my opinion

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484172#Comment_120484172

Well in my opinion you only seen power shots and Zhang's were more affective but they alone don't win rounds unless you put your opponent down.

I said it last night and then when the compubox numbers became available they backed up my scoring.

Zhang easily won round 1, then the scoring was tight in round 2 but when there's only a point between them you consider the power shots you've marked down. Zhang was ahead by one in the second but even if he was behind by one I'd still give him the round. The next three rounds were clearly won by Joyce, in round 4 he landed more punches and there was only one between them on power shots so its Joyce's round. That was the closest round of 3, 4 and 5.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484173#Comment_120484173

Again I posted my round scoring last night, then compubox numbers became available and backed up my scoring.

What have you to say about compubox?

Bobby Baccala

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484252#Comment_120484252

My original post was about Zhang mate I’m not here to debate who Joyce could beat. Not entirely sure what you’re trying to get at either so let’s just leave it at that.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484276#Comment_120484276

Compubox is people pressing buttons when punches land. Nothing is considered as regards effectiveness, cleanness, force. Arm shots and blocked shots and partially blocked shots are considered/counted.

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484319#Comment_120484319

It counts up scoring punches, that's the primary, as in most important, part of judging.

You hit ten great shots and get hit twenty times and you lose the round easily.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484629#Comment_120484629

It counts up punches that “land,” not necessarily “scoring” shots. And it’s not the actual judges doing it (I know you are not claiming this). It’s a handy tool, no doubt, but only part of an analysis.

And handy for you here because it is allowing you to ignore the glaringly obvious, that Zhang won clearly!!

eagle eye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484638#Comment_120484638

I said what I thought before compubox numbers were available. Then compubox numbers become available and lo and behold they back up my scoring of the fight.

Like I've heard loads of people calling fights wrongly all the time. They see the big shot and that's all they use to score a round.

If I'm not mistaken I remember you saying Canelo beat Golovkin in their second fight where Golovkin hit way more scoring punches in 10 of the twelve rounds. I don't know what you saw in that fight but it was clearly corrupt judging. Same as the first fight.

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120484803#Comment_120484803

Canelo winning fight II was not corrupt judging. Seriously, stop digging here.

Professional boxing judges do not use compuxbox to score fights. So your point is pointless!

squinn2912

This man wont be happy until Saint Joe gets awarded the fight on the grounds that compuboxing had him up on landed punches. Sure he had to chase the fight for all he was worth because he allowed his eye to be banjaxed while Zhang just had to be careful not to get hit big or gas. He also took so many shots on the hands and arms, very little clean or substantial. In any event it doesn’t matter a shiny shite even if Joyce was up on the cards, he had to be pulled from the fight for his own safety. So he got bested. He lost his 0. His style came undone. He looked like a novice who hadn’t a clue how to defend and this has been threatening to happen ever since he went pro. You got it wrong.

squinn2912

Just watched it again it really was an impressive performance from Zhang. Joyce just hadn’t got it. Terrible first round he was a rabbit in the headlights, second even worse. Joe had lots of peppering punches but they were mostly ineffective. He did get some success to the body and round the back of the guard but his movement was so poor. Zhang fired hard every time and made it count. Makes me rethink Hrgovic now. I thought he was brutal last night out but all considered thats a good victory. Cards might have been a bit unkind to Zhang but the best he could have got was a draw for me. Wondering who Hrgović will take on next. Id have thought hed be a mandatory. Standing at the moment

Fury

Usyk

Wilder

Joshua

Hrgovic

Zhang

Ruiz

Joyce

Ortiz

Leaving 10 blank can’t decide who gets it