Varadkar hits the right note for Landlords

I can predict we're this will go.

Leo Talking common Sense is a rare thing, he does make a fair point as there are clearly two sides to the rental crisis coin but the "common sense" comment is not going to actually achieve anything sensible. More a sound bite and utterly meaningless.

Intriguing the added comment about the SF party, it would seem not a single thing, Leo says or does can not have a slight thrown in about SF thrown into the mix.

I listened to the late Debate last night and my god, it is very clear where this Housing for all plan is going, clearly not much common sense put into its drafting and indeed by all accounts its implementation. The FG representative (Limerick City) was savaged and wasn't talking any sense at all.

Common Sense not at all evident it would seem.

Bunch of small portfolio landlords are already leaving the market due to the punitive changes in the way their income is taxed

When these properties disappear it's not gonna help with the supply issues people keep talking about

Great news. I'll have a 5 bed in Howth with a sea view and tennis court please.

There is a massive contradiction in people's constant demands for better housing supply on the one hand, and the denigrating of landlords on the other.

Landlords bring housing into the market place. Thats what we want. So lets kick them. Lets do everything we can not to encourage them.

Makes no sense.

A rental cap is a direct intervention in the market. If his reason against direct intervention is that it would negatively affect the income of a certain selection of society, i.e. it would distort the market, then that same reason holds for indirect intervention.

That would mean no more government schemes or reliefs for any developer/investor and also no more intervention in the housing market by the State. So no subsidised rents, no payment of rent to private landlords for social housing, and also no purchasing or building of social housing. If you want to take it to the full extreme, it would also mean removing standards and protections.

I personally think that the government should indeed be intervening directly in the market by encouraging and promoting development and by penalising those who hinder it.

I would, however, be against the concept of market caps, but for a different reason. That being that they could only ever be a short term relief. If you have a market cap, then the only way to increase profit is to decrease costs. A landlord would have no natural incentive to ever upgrade or improve a property for a tenant.

People do. But if you live in Dublin and pay nearly €1800 a month on rent, how are you supposed to also save for a deposit?

Has the cost to a landlord of renting a house out gone up by the levels of the rent increases of the past few years? I can't imagine it has, mortgage repayments won't have anyway...

Small landlords are, in general, merely rent seekers (the economic meaning of the term).

They are surely removing housing from the market (rentals that is. Obviously people are buying the ex-rentals).

Right well look at what Leo is saying in response to a three year tent freeze: it's someone's income.

Would a normal person be unable to go without a pay raise for three years - after massive pay raises in previous years which outpace inflation?

Lessen the tax burden for small landlords, and make it possible to evict troublesome/non-paying tenants if you're worried about their livelihoods.

Fair enough. I'm not an LL, I rent.

They seem to use the excuse of having to pay tax to continually raise rents.

Im not a landlord, though i did spend a couple of years investigating getting into it and decided that I wouldnt.

One of the main reasons is that I would have been paying a loan over many years and getting taxed at over 50% on the profit.

So (not my exact figures, im totally making these ones up) you would be paying about €14000 of which 9000 was interest, so about €5000 profit.

For ease, we can assume no other expenses (but of course there would be, like advertising, repairs, property tax, RTB etc).

So Im shelling out €14000 and paying over €2000 tax.

So that €16000+ going out and about €14000 in rent coming in.

After 30 years I would own it outright though. Thats a very long way away with the goal posts moving with new legislation yearly.

But anything can, and has been happening with new legislation and then you have the fact that paying rent in Ireland is now basically optional if you have a big enough neck.

I know people who havent received a penny in rent for over 3 years now. And i doubt they will be getting their property back anytime soon. And god knows what damage they will end up having to pay to fix when they get it back too.

Is that an investment that anyone could get behind. I think not.

Well a lot of people can't afford to become profitable jewellers or moneylenders either. If you need to borrow heavily to get a start it's a bad idea imo. It was a Celtic Tiger con that anyone could make easy money as an LL.

If you only have one or two properties and thin margins a bad tenant will sink you financially.

Is it possible to sell the debt for unpaid rent to a private debt collector? That is what I would prefer to do in that situation, if it's allowed.

There is no way to sell the debt arising from unpaid rent. The cost of pursuing the debt (assuming you can even find the defaulting tenant) is usually more than the benefit of chasing it. After the cost of bringing the tenant to court, you might get a judgement of a couple of Euro per week that could take years and years to repay. Why would any bank/fund/idiot buy something thats worth nothing.