Varadkar hits the right note for Landlords

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925530#Comment_117925530

Stop trolling, lol

Tenant pays for all that through rent.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117925617#Comment_117925617

I've been renting all my life and there's been **** all repairs, plus it's tax deductible.

Go on...give some proof of your costs.

Insurance is a few hundred...an increase of 100% would mean like a weeks rent ffs.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926332#Comment_117926332

It would be naive to think market principles would not apply all the same if all renters with the funds to buy suddenly wanted to buy at the same time.

What do you think would happen to those who do not want to buy, or do not have the funds, what of the rentals with multiple tenants, one property eviction creates 5 buyers, if the properties they rent disappear? Homelessness would increase exponentially overnight,

A lot of LLs would welcome your grand vision remove tenants overnight and sell to the highest bidder among the hundreds of thousands of evicted tenants.

I don’t think you gave this much thought.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926365#Comment_117926365

Why not buy yourself if as you said earlier is true "I could buy if I wanted, have 130k in cash and stocks right at this moment." and stop moaning?

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926465#Comment_117926465

You don't appear to have given it much thought yourself. The highly inefficient model of the amateur landlord with one or two properties on the side is not the only possible model.

The professional ones who actually understand the basics such as tax (which many posters on here do not) can also provide the same service.

A market should never compensate a participant for idiosyncratic risk. But most amateur landlords (again, as exhibited ad nauseam in posts on here) demand to be.

If you are an amateur landlord and you sell your property tomorrow, it is unlikely that the purchaser will knock it down. There will still be the same number of housing units available in the market overall. It might end with an owner-occupier, where there is a need, or it could also end up as being rented by a professional landlord to another renter, where there is also a current need.

As I am sure you are aware, there are stories, perhaps apocryphal, of amateur landlords who get stung by bad tenants and who end up leaving their property off the market for a long time afterwards. And that definitely reduces supply

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924508#Comment_117924508

"The main reason why Ireland rent is so high is because a huge amount of landlords got driven out of the market because of the regulations which will allows tenants to sit in house paying no rent and no wya to get them out."

No it isn't. That's an astounding misunderstanding of basic economics. The main reason that rent is so high is that that is what the market is currently willing to pay due to scarcity and lack of alternative.

As a very small-time low rental-let landlord, I’m chasing threads on this subject. I’m weary of expressing my views on social media, but suffice it to say an awful lot has been let get out of hand by a series of governments. The bubble has to burst some time… can’t last that long. But few have saved sufficiently for the future, for accommodation, for pensions. Generally, our standard of living exceeds our ability to finance it.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926570#Comment_117926570

There’s usually a couple of factors at play when it vines too anything, and discouragement of landlords is part but not all of it.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926534#Comment_117926534

My response reflected the posters wish that EVERY landlord exited the sector, there was no distinction made between amateur and professional.

Have you some reason to believe that “amateur” landlords as you call them do not understand taxation? And I would argue that the amateur model is highly efficient, it provides the majority of rental properties, often in locations where professional investors do not venture.

The risks associated with renting properties are not peculiar to an owner of one, two, five, or a hundred properties, though the ability to absorb the consequences of errant tenants would seem to be. Of course houses are not knocked when LLs sell, to suggest anyone thinks that is idiotic, though the reduction in rentals may aid some buyers, not all, you must also consider that a significant number of people neither want to, nor can afford to buy homes and therefore need those amateurs you dismiss so readily.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117924220#Comment_117924220

In your example, you are basically paying 2,000 a year (i.e a few pints a week) for an investment which will pay off (highly inflation protected) a couple of hundred k in 30 years. That is pretty exceptional. Fair enough you have a somewhat illiquid asset but it is not wholly illiquid

(inflation protected in the sense that real estate is highly correlated to inflation).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926534#Comment_117926534

Indeed, there is good truth here. I have the most superb tenants from a Northern European country where the culture is to repaint your house interior frequently. My tenants live the original decor I provided and maintain it that way and wouldn’t change it without permission. Were I to sell with these particular tenants resident they would be an asset to a new landlord who wanted their property protected.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926645#Comment_117926645

Man, there are mountains of posts on here about people complaining that they have to pay income tax on the rent they receive i.e. income.

They try to compare it to corporation tax and don't understand that either.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926662#Comment_117926662

No, there are mountains of posts complaining about the amount of tax they pay on rental income, that is not to say they do not understand taxation.

And yes, a lot of people have questions about the tax on rental revenue paid by the “professional” landlords as you call them. With good reason.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926659#Comment_117926659

So in that case you are lucky. The issue is when someone has the problem tenants, then it could financially ruin them. But a larger organisation, even say 100 previously single-property-landlords pooling their properties, would not have the same worries. Because the loss is spread over all of them. Each of them would take a little bit of a loss rather than X getting perfect trouble free tenants and 100-X getting the troublemakers which could ruin them financially.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926497#Comment_117926497

Being a renter or owner doesn't mean I can't voice opinions on landlords.

I would propose an incentive to landlords to let long term. A decreasing tax liability once the landlord maintains the same tenancy. How much, how long, is for someone with the excel spreadsheets to work out. But I would suggest to government to think of it.

It’s been going around in my head, going to tweet this.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926696#Comment_117926696

They don't complain about their tax on their 9-5 salary in those posts.

However, they complain that they have to pay tax on their side income (from rent) when they are paying off a capital investment (their mortgage).

They are not complaining that the tax bands or the tax rates. They don't understand why they should be paying tax on the rent (with deductions for interest and maintenance)

I’ve got agreement in Twitter. I’m “landlord class”, at the same time into social justice; but there is another way. I’m going to plague gubbermint on Twitter that things need to be changed.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926720#Comment_117926720

Of course people complain about the taxes they pay on their work income, and all the indirect taxes we pay, this being the accommodation and property forum, it’s stands to reason that complaints on taxation related to rental income would be be vented here.

Being a landlord is not a philanthropic pursuit, that is the point LV was making, the benefit must be worth the risk. If it isn’t, then LLs leave, renters get squeezed even more. It is a symbiotic arrangement, one cannot exist without the other.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926714#Comment_117926714

While it is a good idea, the difficulty with those sorts of schemes is that they can:

1) be used as a tax avoidance measure by others

2) just act to increase the value of the property.

The second point might mean, for example, that it is even more financially beneficial for an investor to bid even higher, to outbid a potential owner-occupier, in order to rent it back to them.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926764#Comment_117926764

For as long as there is a chronic shortfall in the owner-occupier market, landlords selling up is not really making the overall situation any worse. And there are currently many people renting who want to buy. So those people would benefit.

I would agree that it would be making the overall situation worse if LLs leaving the market resulted in a glut of houses being left unsold and idle. But we are far off that for now. At now, it would be, at worst, robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Ha Long Bay

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926707#Comment_117926707

If you say so. I didn't suggest that.

antimatterx

This is going to get alot of abuse thrown my me, but **** it.

I was/am a huge Leo fan boy. I've canvassed for FG and him personally. He's a nice guy. But I'm not sure what him and FG are doing. They're really doing there best to put SF in power.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926793#Comment_117926793

Of course LLs leaving the market makes it more difficult for buyers. A rental property being sold may result in multiple tenants homeless while providing one buyer with a property. Without rental properties new employees migrating to that area looking for rented accommodation become subject to diminishing supply, as a result, rents increase and they become less capable of buying. The rental and buying markets are two sides of the same coin, but multiple people rarely buy houses together, and not everyone wants to buy immediately when they move to a new area, or even in their present location.

Quin_Dub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117922313#Comment_117922313

Well - Having a roof over your head is a human right.

Owning a home is absolutely not a human right , nor is being able to pick and choose where you live.

No one has a right to home ownership - That is aspirational and a good one , but not a right.

It's a bit like free legal aid - Every one is entitled to representation but if you can't afford to pay for it yourself , you have to take what you are given.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926839#Comment_117926839

You have a couple of implicit assumptions there, and forgive me for describing them as nonsense, but I feel that I must:

1) That everyone renting is renting in multiple tenancy housing.

2) That people who would otherwise continue to rent out of choice, would suddenly decide to buy based solely on their landlords decision to sell up.

Lets be blunt, your scenario is effectively that in a house that is currently being rented to multiple people, the landlord sells up and one of the current tenants buys the entire place and kicks out all others so that they can live there on their own. That is not a usual scenario - one where a person who has the means to buy a large place on their own, instead rents a room in a large multiple tenancy housing.

In reality, it would be far more likely that that previously rented house would be bought by an individual, or a couple, who are currently renting another unit on their own. When they buy the house, their previously rented house goes back into the rental market and is available for your multiple tenancies. So you have reduced the number of houses available for rent by one. But you have also reduced the demand for rental houses by one.

jimmycrackcorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926350#Comment_117926350

Everyone travelling on Dublin bus is paying for the actual bus.

agoodpunt

trump go away u have nothing between ur ears

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926917#Comment_117926917

I’m not sure if you are intentionally misconstruing what I posted.

I said no such thing that everyone renting is doing so in multiple occupancy accommodation, I do say a significant proportion of rented properties have more than one tenant, but a house usually has only one buyer. Taking an example, if 3 people have to leave a rented property so that it can be placed on the market to be sold, one buyer benefits along with the landlord as a result of that property sale, but the three who were renting it are in a worse position. They then end up paying more rent due to less supply, therefore they find it more difficult to buy their own home.

Also, as I said, while many want to buy homes, many others do not. A further diminishing supply of rental properties as a result of sales, though it may benefit a buyer, makes life much harder for renters who themselves want to be buyers eventually. You must also take into account that many prospective FTBs are not currently renting, so the assumption that a buyer opens the way for another renter cannot be taken for granted.

agoodpunt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117926350#Comment_117926350

rent = mortgage or is it + jacks roll how can you rent what u when you want all LL to sell ? DS