Would you pay more?

slipperyox · 08-09-2021 8:48pm #1

Was thinking recently about the system in place for licences.

Does the fee of €80 per 3 years, actually cover the cost of running the system. An if not, would you be willing to pay more for a more consistent service?

08-09-2021 8:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058207991/would-you-pay-more

What system? What service? What do you get for your 80 euro other than a piece of paper?

slipperyox · 08-09-2021 9:09pm

Really? A piece of paper?

Civilian staff/ Gardai occupied outside of normal duties, character checks, inspecting safes, collecting paperwork from rfd's, paper, postage, machine to make licences etc etc Doesn't come without a price.

I argue, a cost analysis/ FOI would suggest it actually costs the state.

otmmyboy2 · 08-09-2021 9:44pm

I would strongly argue that with the amount we pay for everything in Ireland, and the high taxes too that we shouldn't have to pay anything for this "service" that is so benevolently provided by the state. We already pay through the nose for other public services which then don't have an additional cost, so why should this?

Not that it really is benevolently provided that is, nor is there any alternative, accountability(that doesn't cost you another arm and a leg in court), no appeals(except through said expensive court process), consistency(between district or between super and c-super either sometimes), etc.

Considering how firearms licencing is administered here compared to how much we pay per licence I would argue that we shouldn't be paying one red cent.

I and many others have been saddled with firearms I cannot access while I wait months longer than the legal maximum wait time for renewals, let alone applications, and given that the system here licences not just the person, but the person and the firearm, I think the "service" provided doesn't warrant paying for. Not to mention the brow-beating that regularly occurs in AGS firearms interviews.

Example, if I went to the private sector and ordered something for €80, that only involved paperwork being essentially rubber stamped, would I be willing to wait a week for it?

Maybe.

A month? Less likely.

3+ months? No chance.

Imagine the uproar if drivers licences or passports were granted like firearms licences are, with the same recourses.

Cass · 08-09-2021 9:47pm

No, in short.

There are approximately 155,000 people licensed, but licensing approx. 225,000 firearms at €80 a go. That is €18 Million every three years or €6 Million per year in revenue from licensing. AGS do all the background stuff and An Post the processing. If you break down the €6 Million per year among the 26 counties (evenly for the ske of keeping it simple) then it allocates just under a quarter of a million, per county, per year. Allowing for a large salary of almost €60,000 per year for 4 people.

Now obviously there is also a cost for printing, CPOs, etc. however even allowing for €80,000 a year, per county, for administration/printing, etc. that leaves €150,000 for salaries. So averaging it at €50,000 per year that is three people (AGS) paid for the year.

As the CPO covers more than one county there is a surplus in the salaries being paid, and with some counties/districts not having FOs at all or only the one then it either leaves another surplus or breaks even.

In short the price is as much as it needs to be. If the price went up I'd like to see a better license (plastic card with all firearms listed and possibly even a swipe function/chip and pin) to buy ammo, etc. All that information is then uploaded into a new PULSE system which has been complete gutted and rebuilt fromt he ground up and is fit for purpose which even the Garda inspectorate has said needs done, badly.

BSA International · 08-09-2021 10:04pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058207991/would-you-pay-more

They don't need to think of ways to do us over. Posts like this do it for them ......... Answer to question ....... NO !

Grizzly 45 · 08-09-2021 10:48pm

IF and that's a very big if...

The system was modernised, taken out of AGS control,bar background checking of applicants for criminality, and then made a SHALL ISSUE within a mandated timeframe of 30 working days, and the license is brought into the line of five years, and made into an old school plastic card that has to work by chip and pin[No RIFID thanks, too easily hacked] that allows you to do like for like substitutions at a dealer level without a vast amount of paperwork then yes it could be considered...

However I don't think we have to dream too much on this, our dear leaders in Brussels are already making the first encroachments on this by demanding EUROPOL has access to national police forces firearms licenses databases.

But of course, this is as likely as the first commercial Saudi pig farm opening any time soon,and the chances of the Govt making a swine's rear end of the matter. So frankly...NO!

Wadi14 · 10-09-2021 12:11am

Do you honestly think by paying more the system would get better ? the Garda processing your application who might be in the unmanned rural station for a couple of hours a week still will get paid the same as he did before. Its not the price that we pay for a license that is slowing the process up.

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 8:48am

The Northern Ireland system, costs more to run than it receives in fees.

Del2005 · 10-09-2021 9:13am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865429#Comment_117865429

Should we start charging people more than €100 for rocking up to A&E without a doctors letter or life threatening injury? Especially if they call an ambulance, then you are paying for the ambulance staff, nurses, doctors, admin, cleaners and porters all for €100 (when they have a sore finger).

judestynes · 10-09-2021 9:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117871055#Comment_117871055

Yes, they should.

Barber2021 · 10-09-2021 11:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865429#Comment_117865429

having been told earlier this week that my application, for a substitution of one 12g for another, was in fact stuck between 2 other summons documents for the last 4 weeks......no i wont pay more.

i cant imagine that there is more than a half hours work in the administration of an application.....80 for an hours work plus print and post is plenty.

Cass · 10-09-2021 1:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870993#Comment_117870993

I'd love to see a proper breakdown of the numbers on that and why it costs so much, if what you say is true. Actually can you cite the source for that claim?

Population of Ireland (only in the news the other) is just over 5 million for the first time in hundred(s) of years. Population of Northern Ireland is 1.885 Million. So we have 2.65 times the population.

According to the PNSI there are 153,459 registered firearms in Northern Ireland "over" and estimated 100,000 people. So that is an ownership rate of 5.3%. Irelands is 3.25% approx with (at last count) 225,000 firearms "over" 150,000 licensed persons.

Northern Ireland certificate costs £98 (€115) but over 5 years. A variantion (our version of a substitution I believe) costs £30 (€35). Their license lasts 5 years so 40% longer, but they pay 35% more for it so in essence we're the same in terms of cost for a license, but the substitution here is free.

The Northern system receives £15,000,000 (€17.6 million) per 5 years in license fees and I don't have access to the data on the monies raised through variations or other charges. Lets call it a million over the 5 years in variations fees. That would leave it at around 6,000 per year in "subs". So the Northern system generates appox. £16,000,000 (€18.8 Million Euro) every 5 years or £3.2 (€3.75) million per year.

Ireland generates €6 million per year with a larger shooting community of 150,000 people with 225,000 licenses.
Norhtern Ireland generates £3.25 (€3.75) million with 100,000 people and 153459 license over 5 years.
If you "level" the population, costs etc in Northern Ireland compared to IReland on a per head/capita then Northern Ireland would generate £8,600,000 per year or €9,600,000 per year with the same number of licenses.

Conclusion - So Northern Ireland would generate over 35% more in revenue from licensing fees than Ireland based on per head capita. As it stands they generate the same revenue as Ireland with a 35% reduced revenue stream (smaller shooting community) and they claim it is not paying for itself? I find it hard to believe to be honest.

Grizzly 45 · 10-09-2021 1:04pm

Suggesting that 90 days are needed to come to a decision already suggests a grossly inefficient system when handling these applications.I cant think of any other licensing requirement that takes so long anywhere else in Ireland or Europe.

10-09-2021 1:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865429#Comment_117865429

If it costs the state, then the state should get it's arse in gear, and overhaul/revamp so it doesn't cost the state.

OT, but its the same with the TV License, If there is one TV License inspector per county, earning 40k a year(very conservative estimate), then it costs 1.04 Million a year to "inspect" TV Licenses. At 160 per TV license, 6,500 people have to buy a TV License, just to pay for the inspection. Thats before you get onto Joe Duffy's salary. A very wasteful way of doing it.

Chiparus · 10-09-2021 6:31pm

error

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 9:07pm

PSNI system costs more to run, than fees collected.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/aug/23/arms-licence-northern-ireland

BSA International · 10-09-2021 9:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874227#Comment_117874227

The Guardian......enough said.

They use "weapons" which tells us what their attitude to firearms is.

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874264#Comment_117874264

The guardian, enough said? It was a FOI reprint.

Target shooters use firearms, hunters use firearm /weapons. what's the issue?

Cass · 10-09-2021 9:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874227#Comment_117874227

Ten year old article which mentions nothing about costs vs revenue.

Slipperyfox - Target shooters use firearms, hunters use firearm /weapons. what's the issue?

We don't use weapons, we use firearms. We have a firearms act and a firearms license. The word weapon is inflamatory and a misnomer for sporting firearms.

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 10:27pm

You need to read article again, 19th line down from "The detail".

The full FOI is available for download in any event.

Regardless of your euphemisms, the Oxford contains definition of the word "weapon" inflammatory or not. The dead fox was harmed and physically damaged.

https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/oi/authority.20110803121436977

Add prefixes, eg "offensive weapon" then you got a different kettle of fish.

In the meantime, judging from the responses on here, by my OP, I guess the status quo and moaning continues regarding the system.🤣😜

Cass · 10-09-2021 10:45pm

Slipperyfox - You need to read article again, 19th line down from "The detail".

It says: "The lower age limit is now 16 and it currently costs the PSNI more to run the licensing scheme than they recover in fees." Then nothing. No data, no breakdown of costs vs revenue, etc. So I'll say it again. The article is outdated and explains nothingbar making an unfounded/unproven assertment.

Slipperyfox - Regardless of your euphemisms

Its not "my" anything. Its English, what we have, what is in law and yes some "PR" thrown in for good measure.

Weapon: a thing designed or used for inflicting bodily harm or physical damage
Firearm: a rifle, pistol, or other portable gun.

Slipperyfox - In the meantime, judging from the responses on here, by my OP, I guess the status quo and moaning continues regarding the system.

Are you happy with the system? Are you happy that the promises made in 2009 were never followed through on? As for "moaning on here", well we're in good company because the Garda Inspectorate has said that the system is wholly outdated and not fit for purpose. Not just the firearm section either, but all of PULSE. So its not moaning to be moaning, but with cause and proof from the least biased soruce there can be.

slipperyox · 10-09-2021 11:03pm

Point 1:

You still didn't download the full FOI.,

outdated? all members on here give me cash and I'll get a more recent one? Its a starting point regardless, and getting off topic if its a little old.

point 2: subjective, and semantics. though I would now add that damage to paper targets constitutes the use of a weapon, as the paper is damaged.😜

point 3: Am I happy with the system? No. This is why I posted a possible solution. Unlike the masses who say nothing, moan, but then attack a proposal.

Kinda sorry I bothered posting now frankly.

Cass · 10-09-2021 11:38pm

Slipperyfox - Point 1: You still didn't download the full FOI.,

You made the assersion so the onus is on you to provide data. If you have the full FOI then post it. If you have other data then post it. Its not up to me, or anyone else, to support your point. If it exists, the data, then post it. Its not that I don't believe you, its that I asked for numbers as I don't see how the revenue form license fees is not enough to maintain a firearms database when, per head of capita, Northern Ireland appears to generate the same revenue as the South.

Slipperyfox - outdated?

Yes, by almost ten years.

Slipperyfox - all members on here give me cash and I'll get a more recent one?

Again, the onus is on you to privide supprting data/arguments for your point. Not on me or anyone else to do it for you.

Slipperyfox - Its a starting point regardless, and getting off topic if its a little old.

Starting point for what? As for off topic, not at all. The discusssion on cost/benefit while pertaining to the South has relevancy to the north given your point about what it costs to run such a system. Its not about who is right because I'm not arguing you're wrong. However the PSNI system is run, its not ours and they [Northern Gun owners] pay more for licenses than we do, but over the longer temr of their license it works out the same as our three year license. So could be argued its very relevant. We won't know until we have data.

Slipperyfox - subjective, and semantics. though I would now add that damage to paper targets constitutes the use of a weapon, as the paper is damaged

If the targets can sue then I'd agree, but until then we use the term firearm.

Slipperyfox - Am I happy with the system? No. This is why I posted a possible solution.

Its not a solution, to throw more money at something. It'd be different if the revenue from license fees went directly into licensing, but it doesn't.

Slipperyfox - Unlike the masses who say nothing, moan, but then attack a proposal.

Moaning is saying something. 😁 You did not offer a proposal, you suggested throwing more money into the exchequer. Nothing more. Lobbying/petitioning for licensing monies to go directly into firearm licensing, an updated PULSE registry, new license format (credit card type), RFD interface with immediate substitutions changed on PULSE while at the RFD, one license with mulitple firearms listed on the license, etc. They're proposals and if they cost a little more then I'd be open to listening to arguments on why the license fee should/would be increased however more money for the same crap, no thanks.

Slipperyfox - Kinda sorry I bothered posting now frankly.

Debate, difference of opinion, and even arguments are vital for finding all the pros and cons of a point. Attacking and defending the opposing view points will root out whether something has merit or not. If it has it'll stand up to scrutiny, and if not then well done for the effort regardless and keep at it. Not every idea is a winner but it only takes one [good idea] to make a diffference.

Lastly, and this is not a personal attack, if you wanted a load of "yes" replies without debate, rebuttal or argument then a blog is more the way to go. Hell, even if you were right you'll still get an argument from someone saying you're wrong. Joys of the interweb.

Grizzly 45 · 11-09-2021 12:16am

This pic should be stickied on the top of the OT thread!!!🤣

keith s · 11-09-2021 1:14am

" Was thinking recently about the system in place for licenses"

Yeah, basically it's a sh1T3 system, where:

Turnarounds on application times and decisions are based on your location and the station you submit to.

Everybody is not exactly treated the same.

One person can be granted x amount of rounds, when (with the same criteria) another person is denied this amount.

Stories recently of issues being granted a moderator.

I know one lad waited over 6 months for a substation (one 22lr to another 22lr) .

That's 6 MONTHS, where he had to hand in the first rifle while waiting on the application to be approved.

In fairness I think most of the FAO's have been lumped with an extra title and in turn more work, on top of their normal duties and some, may have no more interest in firearms than I do in crochet hooks!

With all the flaws that the current system does have, a new system would need to be carefully considered.

The NDLS car license system and process is standard and much more efficient, if you are banned or need glasses or have endorsements, that can be checked in no time at all. But, a centralized system could have some other issues, if you look at the amount of cyber attacks this year (and they are on the rise) - The HSE probably getting the most airtime this year, but by no means the only victim. If the NDLS database was hacked it might revile a lot of PII, but if a firearms owners database was hacked, it could pose more serious concerns. A recent breach in a UK based site hit the news recently and I'm sure a lot of the users now regret using that site.

So yes, the system in place can be slow and unfair based on where you reside and I do not think anyone here has a problem with that point.

I think it's the fact that you then jumped straight to a proposal of paying more money, that people would take issue with.

Like, why would more money automatically fix it? A new system would of course cost money, but it would not (SHOULD DEFINITLY NOT), add to the day to day effort.

A better system would save time and reduce the effort and redundant tasks needed to accomplish the process.

While I might call up Sky or Virgin and complain if my broadband is slow this week, I would never start that conversation with: "Hey lads if I throw more money at you, will you take a look.. No, I would get on to them and complain and tell them that I am paying for a service that is not getting delivered as promised.

If they replied to say that they are understaffed or their system is in rag order, again I would not say, Ah jaysus sorry to hear that, would it help if you charged me more money, or better still if I proposed that every customer will pay them more money.

For my two cents on using Firearm vs Weapon:

A lad on the radio recently referred to duck shooting as a bloodbath, he did so to stress his view and embed an image in the minds of the listeners of the program.

I have never looked up the difference so I cannot tell for sure if it's correct, but (to me at least) a Weapon paints a picture in my mind of anything that is used against someone to hurt or kill; and while you may well kill duck or damage paper, I feel the term firearm is a more appropriate term to use, if you are licensed and acting in a legal capacity.

slipperyox · 11-09-2021 1:18am

I'll end with this.

I'm having a lot more constructive feedback, in a more active forum than this graveyard, so I'll focus my attention there.

BSA International · 11-09-2021 5:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117874339#Comment_117874339

Guardian is left wing borderline tabloid trash.

solarwinds · 11-09-2021 9:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875240#Comment_117875240

Oh dear, someone is taking their ball and going home.

Would I pay more for an outdated broken system, where any interaction I have with the people running it treat me like a nut job or criminal for having a past time that involves a firearm, NO I definitely would not.

Every year without fail the Government throws (pre covid) hundreds of millions extra into the health service outside of their annual budget which increases by hundreds of millions every year any way. Would you honestly say that the service provided was improving, I for one would not but I gather you would have a different attitude.

On this outdated platform you asked a question and got answers, some good suggestions and a debate on your ill thought out idea. To me that is the point of asking a question on a public forum with like minded individuals involved in the sport. It is a pity you cannot take constructive criticism as the contributors here are a wealth of knowledge. But probably best you stay on the AGS members forum where all have agreed with your suggestion of give them more money.

minktrapper · 11-09-2021 2:14pm

225,000 firearms at €80 a go. That is €18 Million every three years or €6 Million per year in revenue from licensing.

More commonly known as a "licence" to print money. If you will excuse the pun. Just as well the rod licence never came in. How could it cost €6,000,000 a year to print a few bits and pieces on a piece of paper. Think about it. €6 million.

deerhunter1 · 11-09-2021 2:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117865373#Comment_117865373

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058207991/would-you-pay-more

What system, if you cannot take criticism don't post

viper123 · 11-09-2021 3:50pm

To answer OP question yes I would pay more, I would also happily pay for deer permit also

Wadi14 · 11-09-2021 7:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117875240#Comment_117875240

You are right there are a lot of people using TicTok these days.

Grizzly 45 · 11-09-2021 9:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117876825#Comment_117876825

Could I be so bold as to ask why? Genuine question.

Nekarsulm · 11-09-2021 11:13pm

The fact that the system takes in money is in no vl way connected to the fact that people operating it get paid.

The only cost is that of the Printers, and An Post.

Everyone else involved is being paid to be a Garda or Civil Service employee regardless of their role within the organisation.

I know of one person, a CO in the Civil Service who was deployed to a regional Garda headquarters and processed all the Restricted Licence applications for the district.

If they were not doing that particular job, they would be doing some other paperwork.

The exact destination of the bulk of the monies collected would make for an interesting FOI request.

JP22 · 11-09-2021 11:23pm

Watching this post for some time now, my thoughts are:-

License Cost - Would I pay more?

Yes BUT only if the system works and meets the needs and demands of a modern day society, the Garda themselves have stated that the current system is antiquated and basically it sucks. The whole system needs a thorough overhaul.

Is it worth €80 for three years as it currently stands? – NO.

System Operating Costs

For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are including Garda Wages in the cost of operating the system. If you’re a butcher, baker, soldier or Garda you are in full time employment and paid for your services anyway, granted not paid enough in certain jobs. I served in uniform and overseas for 30+ years, one day you’re on duty, another day doing admin, another doing ceremonial, it’s still doing the job. All organisations large or small have a variety of personnel, some are on the front line (boots on the ground), others are employed in support doing admin, logistics, driving, etc, etc.

To include wages in the overall operating cost is ludicrous, and, if it is to be included, then that should be clearly stated in any report.

License Grant Time Frame

The current minimum three month grant time (rarely achieved) is way too long. It should take no more than four weeks, six at most to check documents, vet the applicant and issue a licence.

The Powers That Be - or shouldnt be

It’s no surprise to me that the system sucks and doesn’t work. Just look at our present government and previous governments back over the years. They never get things right, when they do have a good idea it’s never fully funded or implemented; promises are made but never fulfilled. Health is a serious issue for us all, yet some hospitals cannot access your records in another hospital, worse still, some departments within the same hospital cannot access your records, no cross platform.

Madness I say, madness you say, but end of day it’s because of no detailed logical plan, incompetent ministers, incompetent departments, incompetent managers, lack of resources (underfunding, lack of staff, lack of training, under paid staff, etc).

And worse of all, when government departments are found to be lacking or at fault, poof, like magic everyone involved dives for cover, no one is ever held responsible, no one carries the can and no effective action plans are put in place to solve the issues. The best we ever get is some minister or department head surrounded by the usual nodding donkeys in the background saying “we will learn from our mistakes”, “we will put things right”, yeah, we’ve all heard that one on more than one occasion.

The few times their backs were put to the wall, they always took the easy options, ban this, ban that, restrict this, and restrict that,…………………

God be with the good old days of the green paper license. Back then the Station Sergeant or a dedicated Sergeant within the station looked after the issuing of licenses. The sarge knew you and you knew him, all docs in order, walk in, have a chat (even had a cuppa of two occasions) and an hour later walked out with my license, everything done correctly and above board I might add. Alas, the good old days are gone.

That’s my rant for today, I feel better already, at least for a while anyway.

Cass · 12-09-2021 12:02am

JP22 - For the life of me I cannot understand why some people are including Garda Wages in the cost of operating the system.

For my own part it was a hypothetical. IOW if you took their salary from the yearly revenue you'd still end up with a huge surplus. I know that is not how it works, and if all firearms, hence their license fees, were gone in the morning they'd still get paid. Not to mention all monies go straight to the exchequer and are divvied up among other departments, schemes, costs, and projects.

JP22 - That’s my rant for today, I feel better already, at least for a while anyway.

Well then at least something has come from this thread. 😎😁

Nekarsulm · 12-09-2021 12:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117878938#Comment_117878938

If you don't like how this Government or the last one operate, can you give us any inspired guess as to how the next one will handle firearms licensing?

:D

viper123 · 12-09-2021 11:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117878527#Comment_117878527

No problem at all, but I will say from the offset this is based on the (flawed) opinion that money is ringfenced. A garda background check and a couple of referees are in my opinion not sufficient to weed out people who are not suitable for gun ownership. The licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it.

Regarding deer licencing, if it gets my licence out in time, without admin errors, and in the form of something more than a piece of paper thats detroyed on my first outing each year I'd fund that.

solarwinds · 12-09-2021 12:34pm

Currently people are getting paid to do their job, they are either incompetent or just do not care, which then leaves us with the poor service we are receiving for the money we already pay.

Now how in anyone's head does it make sense to pay these same people more money to suddenly do a better job, they are not overnight going to change their ways or practices, no they will will just gladly take the extra money and still provide the same mediocre service.

Now if some of the suggestions mentioned above were implemented, the service streamlined and made to perform in the manner it is already supposed to, then yes there would be a case for it. But as it stands to pay more money for the same is just throwing good money after bad.

Grizzly 45 · 12-09-2021 1:24pm

Regarding deer licencing, if it gets my licence out in time, without admin errors, and in the form of something more than a piece of paper thats detroyed on my first outing each year I'd fund that.

In fairness to them and having been shaken up this year by Noonan and some funding as well as the mess in 2020. They have got their act together by 80% in upgrading the system to being online, now making it a 3-year license[finally]. So all they really need to do now is figure out how to do the returns online. A ziploc bag or a laminate machine, or a decent photo on your phone sorts out the other problem.😉

No problem at all, but I will say from the offset this is based on the (flawed) opinion that money is ringfenced. A garda background check and a couple of referees are in my opinion not sufficient to weed out people who are not suitable for gun ownership.e licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it.

WHY would you invite more restrictions on yourself and others for the FALSE premises that more restrictions make life safer? You cant regulate for crazy or bad, mad or sad or land inheritance/disputes if your concerns are on the three murder suicides in the last year? In that timeframe, more people have thrown themselves in the Shannon here in Limerick due to the stress of COVID and that gets ZERO mention in the Irish MSM. Mental checks...Push the decision if someone slips their dog onto the medical profession?You should see the reaction in the online forms of the UK docs when Privvie Patel suggested this post the Plymouth Incel shooting his fam and neighbours. Half said they won't sign off mental competency certs as they are unqualified to do and the other half because they don't like guns...M 'kay?

So let's go the Italian route get a state shrink to do it...Someone with an agenda as a civil servant...With no right of appeal or get a 2nd opinion...We won't have a license left within 12 months here under something like that. Random checks are there already under the firearms act,do we have enough Gardai to do this?

Ok lets go the German way on this. Post-Winniden school shooting...Privatise it,and let a private company send out,at 150 euros a throw that YOU as the gun owner must pay on the spot, designated personnel to randomly check up on whether gun owners are storing their firearms and ammo properly. That means letting any Joe or Jane Bloggs into your private house to inspect your gun safe and ammo locker,at possibly 5 AM.Or anytime you might be in residence. Even criminals in Germany don't have that sort of privacy invasion.

IOW be careful what you wish for ...

BSA International · 12-09-2021 2:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879848#Comment_117879848

Do you own firearms?

Competency you refer to every new applicant has to prove same.

You give permission for Garda to contact you doctor/s on application form.

CPO/Garda can/do check house/security set up on new app and/or renewal.

So your asking for what's already there ........

JP22 · 12-09-2021 10:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117879083#Comment_117879083

You jest, I'm sure, at least I hope so.

The good Lord himself couldn't answer that one.

Grizzly 45 · 13-09-2021 8:06pm

You can be assured of 3 things in this life...Death, taxes and more restrictive and stupid gun laws!🙄

viper123 · 16-09-2021 11:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117880390#Comment_117880390

I own a few yes. I provided doctors info on application form but the doctor was not called regarding application so the point is mute. Likewise safe was checked once about 3 years ago but it was on the wall a long time before that.

BSA International · 17-09-2021 12:59am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117901968#Comment_117901968

I refer to your original comment "The licencing should include some form of competency check,firearms safety, random checks etc. If this happens and it costs me money I'm happy to pay it." I pointed out that all this already exists. As you own firearms you know and have admitted this so what you're saying is we should pay more money for current setup? Madness........

viper123 · 21-09-2021 5:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117902116#Comment_117902116

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. The OP asked would I pay more my reply was yes if it went to enhancing a shoddy current system. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me to change my opinion or are just arguing my point.

BSA International · 21-09-2021 6:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920758#Comment_117920758

My point is what you are looking for already exists. Why pay more for it? The extra cash will not make a difference to the service we get. Good cash after bad.

viper123 · 21-09-2021 11:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117920815#Comment_117920815

Yes it does exist, in your opinion. In my opinion it doesnt exist and in answer to the OP's question I'm would be prepared to pay for it. Would I pay more for no enhansement? Deffo no.

BSA International · 22-09-2021 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117921965#Comment_117921965

So what are you saying should happen that's not happening?

Shooting Forum - Firearms licencing information

Would you pay more?

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Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County

Forum Charter - Useful Information - Photo thread: Hardware - Ranges by County - Hunting Laws/Important threads - Upcoming Events - RFDs by County