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There will be a rise in incel related terror attacks
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I could always do with a hug...............
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Mod - a number of off topic bickering posts have been removed. Stop with the personal remarks
@Alberta64 don't post in this thread again
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Just taking your post as it's the most recent one, so not necessarily directed at you.
I'm a, ahem, Volcel (I think that was on the last page). I've definitely breached the imaginary timeframe, a long time ago, but I just couldn't be bothered looking now. I've realised what it is that makes me happy in life, and I live that way. Unfortunately, this life is not something that potential partners look for, and I'm also 38 so any single ladies out there right now are most likely looking for someone to start a family with at this stage of their lives. Other single potential partners may already have a kid or 8. I'm not looking because a: I don't want kids, and b: I don't want someone elses kids. So I'm waiting out for a few years until I'm past this phase before looking again, that is if I become bothered.
What I really want is a friend with benefits. I don't think living together is a good idea in the long run. Makes sense if you have kids together, but if you don't... Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and if I've learned anything in the 2 x 7 year relationships I've had, is that being around the person you love for too long will quickly start to erode that love. Apart from the new girlfriend phase (according to Jim Jeffries this lasts 3 months before she can't hide the psycho anymore), not living together for 4 years was doing wonders for my 2 relationships. About 18 months after moving in together, I was genuinely getting sick of it. The nit picking starts, attempts are made to try and change you. Don't get me wrong, I still loved them, but spending so much time together was not good in the long run.
But that's just me. Everyone is different. I may be single for the rest of my life, and if so, so be it. I spent far too many years feeling depressed because no matter what I did, I just couldn't find another partner. But I've come to realise it's because I just cannot do small talk. I cannot bring myself to pretend to be interested in inane shyte just so I can get my cock sucked. If things get really bad and I'm gagging for the ride (at this stage, I'm pretty sure if I had a hymen, it would have grown back), there's always Escorts Ireland. Or a tripe over a couple of ponds to Amsterdam or a number of other countries offering legal sex services. If I'm that bad. I have 2 Fleshlights to tie me over in the meantime.
Unlike Incels, I don't blame women (biological) for this. I just really don't want kids... And I don't have sex near often enough to justify the cost of the snip.
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I could be a burley man bear though, the magic of the internet. If nothing else it just demonstrates that the internet is not really a great place to learn how to be authentic, or meet genuine people, which is sort of where the original poster was going.
*hug
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Would you consider a single mother if its just a friend with benefits you want? Kids wouldn't bother me if the relationship wasn't serious. I feel like I'm in the same situation as yourself. Same age, hate small talk, cannot flirt to save my life. Only the one fleshlight though. 😁 I wouldn't be using Escort Ireland BTW. Not worth getting a criminal record for the sake of shag.
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I came home just before covid hit Europe, and I haven't had sex since then. Even before I hadn't been with someone for sex for over a year. Honestly, I couldn't be bothered, because I was waiting for something meaningful. Not sex for its own sake, but some kind of connection where the sex would be a foundation for a better relationship with someone else. Sounds easy, but I've found that it's not.
Until I was 30, my experience with sex was few and far between. I was relatively shy, uncomfortable with my shaking disorder, and always seemed to enter the friends zone too quickly. I'm a good listener, which makes people trust me quickly.
Past 30, and after I left Ireland, the world of sex opened up. I roamed. I'm bisexual, so I had a grand vista of choices, and I made use of that. Heading to Asia, added to that, due to the way white people are elevated (sexually), and the huge populations in the cities, which made casual sex so easy to obtain. And I had a lot of sex. A lot of really really bad sex, irrespective of how much effort and interest I put into the experiences to make it better. I learned how to pleasure both men and women, but for myself, most sexual encounters were basic, superficial, and lacking any real value. Oh, I got the physical needs sorted. Mostly. But my needs for intimacy rarely matched with my sexual partners. And so, invariably I got bored.
As time has gone by, I've ticked off all my fantasies. My bucket lists of sexual experiences has been revised a few times, and I've done everything I wanted to try. Which is good, but at the same time, not so good. Which left the areas of intimacy and love... and love has always been difficult for me. I've loved a few partners, and I still do... but I've found that love is no impediment to boredom. Not that I've ever cheated, or wanted to cheat, but that boredom just makes me break up with my partners and move on.
I'm not a Volcel, or any other term people want to apply to themselves or others. I'm simply me. I feel no urge to have sex again, although if I meet someone who floats my boat, I know that sex will be part of it.. but sex, in general, has very little importance to me. Oh, I get the wet dreams, the hardons when I see/imagine someone, the desire to jerk off, etc.. but that's not about sex. That's just the testosterone/biological impulses, and the social conditioning that we were all exposed to.
Incels need to get their own heads out of their asses. I know how easy it is to get sex, and I know just how difficult it is to get sex. Once Incels understand the same, they will stop being incels.
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What I really want is a friend with benefits. I don't think living together is a good idea in the long run. Makes sense if you have kids together, but if you don't... Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and if I've learned anything in the 2 x 7 year relationships I've had, is that being around the person you love for too long will quickly start to erode that love. Apart from the new girlfriend phase (according to Jim Jeffries this lasts 3 months before she can't hide the psycho anymore), not living together for 4 years was doing wonders for my 2 relationships. About 18 months after moving in together, I was genuinely getting sick of it. The nit picking starts, attempts are made to try and change you. Don't get me wrong, I still loved them, but spending so much time together was not good in the long run.
I'd not be too sure on the "hide the psycho" part, but otherwise I'd largely agree with you. We're all "psychos" to some degree and we have to figure out each other as we go on, unless someone is dealing with an actual nutbag of course and they can hide the madness for a long time. But yep I'd agree with the long term stuff alright. It's a personality thing too and I'd also add in age with it. IMHO and as a general rule, if a man isn't somewhat "domesticated" by his 30's at the latest he's going to be resistant to a long termer/complete nightmare in a long termer. Looking at my own and others long termers, after the honeymoon period(roughly 2-3 years depending on how often you see each other, longer if dating, shorter if living together) the real "you" comes out on both sides and that's where it either breaks up or goes more long term.
I hear you on the nit picking, though I would see it as a general difference between men and women. In 90% of things again IMHO men and women are pretty identical and individual differences are far more in play than gender differences. Except in relationships. In that I think the differences can be pretty stark. Even in friendships I've seen this. Women's friendships appear to be much more work. Women friends of mine have noted this. In relationships, friends or romantic, men tend to develop a status quo and stick with it, women tend to see relationships as constantly shifting and in need of attention. In general of course as I've known women in relationships who just go into cruise mode and men who are the nit pickers.
The romantic/sexual angle really changes things though. With women friends it's much easier, much less work and far less of the relationship anxiety thing. I've found in long term sexual relationships relaxing is not an option. There's always something and that something is usually focused on by the woman. I see it with mates in longtermers/marraiges, they're never allowed to relax really. There's always something that needs attention and that can get old really quickly. Depending on your personality. I've had women friends who are great mates, chill and supportive, but who could be utter headwrecks with partners. One such friend had a theory about why, because she noted it herself(she's very self aware, something I've found is rare in men and even rarer in women). Her theory was that with a friendship we weren't shagging so no chance of kids happening so she could relax and just be, whereas with a sexual relationship kids might(and probably would) happen in the long term so she had to more on guard, more into "fixing" him up, testing how emotionally stable he was and all that and part of that was the nit picking stuff. She couldn't relax because there was simply a lot more at stake. I reckon she's got a point.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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The longer you're with someone the more their annoying habits become glaringly obvious, and vice versa. I have zero tolerance for drama too which doesn't help.
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Morning there. Sorry for the delay in replying. I became a dad again (4th time) and decided to dedicate 100% of my time to that as the 3rd kid caused some issues for mammy the last time. So we were being hyper vigilant over the last couple of weeks here. Everyone good here - no issues this time - and all is good.
At the time I made changes in my life I did not really have the language to describe or understand what I was doing. Looking back I do now. So I guess the biggest change was moving away from what would be called "external locus of evaluation". Which is just a fancy smancy way of saying I stopped getting my well being and self worth from external sources - or comparing myself to others such as my siblings or peers. Over night I pretty much decided that I would consider myself no better or worse than anyone else except the person I was yesterday. And my goal in life then became to somehow - mentally physically or emotionally - better myself even a tiny bit over the person I was yesterday.
I then moved to implement incremental and very slow improvements in my life which built up over the long term. So rather than try to over night suddenly start taking up running or exercising - for example - I got up one day and literally went for a 1 minute run. I spent much longer just getting ready fro the run than I did the run. I ran down the road 30 seconds and 30 seconds back up the road!
But on day 2 I did 2 minutes. Day 3 - 3. And so on. And by the time 2 months had passed I was running an hour every day. And the main benefit of this incremental method was that I fixed the routine early - and met my goals early given the goals were so small - which tend to be the two main difficulties people face when trying to better themselves. I applied this incremental approach to many many things in my life. Running is only an example. Meditation would be another example. There are many.
Other than that I also aimed to turn into hobbies things that so far in my life had seemed to be inconveniences. For example many people rush through the process of obtaining - preparing - and eating food. And I found that unhealthy. So I started to grow or hunt my own. Cooking has become a very serious hobby for me to the point I would now consider myself approaching as professional a chef as an amateur can be. And I make time to eat and see eating as being an end in itself rather than just a thing that gets in the way of the rest of my day. Mindful eating if you like :)
Similarly doing things with / for my kids. A lot of parents I observe seem to treat the upbringing of their children as a chore or something they have to struggle through before they get to "me" time. I focus on a lot of my time with them as being "me" time too and I delight in finding new ways to do things with them and educate them and foster their sense of wonder and awe and joy in their lives. I have written a lot about that too on this forum in the past if you search my user name for words like "windowing" for example.
The hobbies and pursuits in my life have been the main source of my meaning and well being though. Meditation and cooking and running I have mentioned. There is also Jujitsu and Capoeira and weaponised go kart racing and more. And most recently the "Jedi Academy" I created for some local "problem kids" here where I live has brought me so much joy and pride and well being and focus too.
Finally I focus on making time (which clearly I do not have much left of after all the above!) for communication and introspection. I check in with myself a lot. And I make time to communicate with the people important to me which is something we often forget to do in our rush to get on with the rest of our lives.
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I am a little slow this morning sorry :) Lack of sleeps! But I am not seeing the link you are drawing between the two posts?
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I doubt it. They tend to be right wing and the right wing tend to invent these groups to be afraid of.
But I genuinely think these lads main problem is they have gotten the wrong end of the stick in social situations. They think it's all about them and never think about the mundane too and fro in a relationship. The things that actually bind people aren't just the headline things like supermodel looks and wild sex, it's the hundreds of tiny interactions throughout the day. These fellas never seem to get that and I presume that is one of the reasons they can't form strong relationships with women.
And I really agree that they tend to set their expectations way too high. It's like they're living in social media land where everyone puts on an ideal front on their lives.
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I'd also add that in the past these guys existed, but expectations were lower overall, the point and click of online dating didn't exist, the filtered BS of online "standards" and lives was much less a thing and more importantly they didn't have a social outlet for themselves or their feelings. By nature they would tend to be loners, by choice or circumstance, or both. The world of the internet changed all that. Suddenly they could find like minded people and do it through a text based, largely non visual, usually anonymous medium, which makes things easier for anyone who feels socially excluded. They could have a community, a tribe, a social outlet, one that gave them social contact, a good thing, but which also gave succour and enlarged the negative aspects until it became a culture of that, a bad thing. And one with a much larger voice than it would otherwise have. A thousand "incel" voices can sound like a large minority on the interwebs.
This goes for pretty much all otherwise marginalised groups in society(though levels of negativity varies). We can see that with things like anorexia and other self harming groups online. They build a culture, a community that builds an echo chamber and catechism of the faith which elevates the faithful over the voices of measured debate and crowds them out. We see the same with political arenas online too and it doesn't matter whether it's the conveniently if woefully simplistic right or left either.
I've long believed one of the main reasons old style forums like Boards are fading away is because generalised discussion where you can read different opinions was a temporary blip in society and that people are far more drawn to arenas where their existing views are believed, reinforced and deviation from the local script is downvoted, blocked or never invited in the first place. Add in that I have found in life that people in general would much rather be proven "right" than be happy and marginalised groups and echo chambers of all stripes including incels are not going away anytime soon. Like I say I reckon that this tribal partisanship is the natural state of humanity, not open debate that might ask questions.
Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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Yeah as much as I'm extremely unhappy in life right now I look at mates in relationships (literally going back to my teens) and in every single case I think "No thanks". The effort, the nagging, the digging, the next thing, the lack of appreciation. I really just don't think it's for me. I'm sure my mates can be and are arseholes at times but I wouldn't be going out with one of them. :P
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Indeed. Maybe "better than" is not the right words to use. Improved upon maybe?
Basically I am trying to indicate an improvement - but without a "value judgement". So "better than" is not really the words I am looking for but also not wrong either.
For example if I learn a new fact - then I know something that the yesterday me did not know. If I run 10km in 34 minutes rather than 35 minutes then I am a little faster than yesterday. If I pull off a move in Capoeira or BJJ that I could not before - then I am a little more flexible than I was before. If I make a new dish or pull off a new close up magic or mentalism trick - then I have a new skill I did not have yesterday.
So the only person I want to compare myself against on any given day - is the person I was the day before.
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You focus too much on negative aspects of your personality - what are the positives?
Typically, a guy has to tick a few of those boxes, sure, but not all. If they don't tick any of them, then they need to work on themselves or ask themselves: what DO they offer?
Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Are you replying to the right person there? I think you may have misunderstood the tongue in cheek nature of my post where I was derisively translating the INCEL language structure to read between the lines of their negativity and doomsaying.
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Yeah, sorry - thought you were the OP for some reason...
But the general gist of my post holds true: incels tend to blame women for having high standards that must women don't actually have. If they did, the human race world be in decline.
Everything I don't like is either woke or fascist - possibly both - pick one.
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Agreed. I put it less eloquently than that. But what I keep saying is that the Incels are so intent on Navel gazing they are forgetting to look out the window to see if their theories hold true in the real world. And in the real world people are pairing up in all kinds of shapes and sizes and economic backgrounds and genital size and fashions and more.
They are so intent on decreeing who is and is not mating material - they are failing to notice the sheer variety in mating behaviour that simply does not even remotely map onto their musings.
Nothing wrong with navel gazing or imagination of course. All good stuff. But such people should stop and look around and reality check every so often.
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Of all your mates, not one of them is in a healthy, happy enough relationship that would even tempt you? Fair enough if that's the case but it sounds extreme.
I think most people i know in relationships are in mutually beneficial situations. Some are less happy than others and in some cases I think they'd be better off ending the relationship. But that's where I think you have completely discounted a crucial factor in relationships. The factor that binds people together and makes a poor relationship tolerable and a normal, good relationship great, is love.
I think the point you're missing (and lots of the incels miss) is that love makes the whole thing work. I think your post above seems oblivious to the fact that most of those couples you know, probably love each other (even if it doesn't last forever). And people express and accept love differently which is why most people aren't compatible with each other but are compatible with some people.
I wonder if the INCELs have a bigger problem understanding giving love or accepting love. The way they go on about themselves seems to suggest they don't like themselves and struggle to imagine anyone else falling in love with them.
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Is incel a sufficiently nuanced term, that’s now occurring to me. You have the guys who can’t find a sechs but could make some attitudinal changes and tidy off their appearance then find themselves out banging (not something I’d necessarily advocate actually but that appears to be their goal). They’d be incels, but they ain’t full on, legit, straight up, no fcuking around incels.
Then you have what I’d term “the heavy hitters”. The morbidly obese, nocturnal, sociopathic, porn addicted, internet addict piss drinkers who are a woman’s nightmare. The jizz tissue tyrants who can’t look you in the eye, but propagate alt right propaganda online and subsist on energy drinks, greasy take away food and wee wee. Who’d date the likes of that? They have an irrevocable stank of no box 4 life. The no box life. They also represent a terroristic threat. They are the real incels, the others just need a life coach!
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Yea it is a vague term. It basically means anyone who wants to be having sex - but is not. That could mean anyone at any time really including the two ends of the continuum you describe above. Men or women. Young or old. A husband or wife in what has turned into a sexless marriage. Anyone really could potentially fit the term "incel". It just means "Involuntary Celebate" right?
So I wonder who I mean when I use the term? I think when I use it I almost entirely mean men. But I mean men specifically who are not having sex - want to be having sex - but are specifically blaming this reality on some attribute or concept that they deem to be out of their control.
The most common one I see on Boards.ie is height. Guys who are convinced their lack of sex is due to their being short. But I see others. Money and Penis size are in the top common group too. Or another common one is something like "irish women are just stuck up" or some other generalisation about irish women.
But the list goes on.
But for me the term "incel" is one I only use for the guys engaged in this excuse making. Blaming their absolute lack of effort at self improvement on something out of their control. It is basically this "I am doomed before I try - because I am not <insert here> - so I am simply not going to try in the first place." attitude that really defines the term "incel" for me.
So the basement dwellers you describe may or might not fit how I use the word. Some of those basement dwellers probably acknowledge the reality their life style does not get them women. I would not call them incels. It is the basement dwellers who think their lack of women is because of women or something like height or wallet or penis or some other nonsense that deserve the term.
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It's not that simple anymore. Many of the MTGOW crowd have merged with the Incel category, as have a number of other internet type groups which have some kind of bitterness about women, as a gender (or women having bitterness about men, as a gender).
As with most things that started on the internet, it's morphed over time.
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Yea its never simple is it? As soon as a word gets used more and more it moves far away from what it originally meant. The word "feminist" is a great one. I guess the moment a word moves from being a descriptive word to being used in any context as a slur - it starts quickly to lose its original meaning.
All I can do is say what _ I _ mean when I use it as I did above. Looking back at the first years of my pulling myself out of the "basement dweller" type into what I am today I would I guess have very much been MGTOW for sure. But I never heard that term or concept until years later. And I think even that term is now changing so I do not know if the 22 year old me would have identified with it as much as it is now compared to how it was earlier.
People might have called me an Incel back then too. No idea. But I threw away any illusion that my lack of interaction with girls/women was anything about girls/women or some attribute about me that women as a whole were somehow constitutionally against. I knew it was all about me - and I knew I had to sort myself out.
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I presume most incels are pretty normal, functioning guys who are socially awkward and don't really get social interactions on some level or another. I can think of a couple of friends who have good jobs, earn well over the national median income, but just don't have that spark that makes them attractive to women. They're excellent mates and good fun to be around so I believe they would make great partners if they found the right woman, but they just don't have the chat for women.
But unless you plan to do something about the incels who are grand lads but don't have the chat aren't really going to grab any headlines. It's the few who are incels AND are also headbangers who think the world is out to get them, that will grab the headlines.
I don't have a problem with looking to help these lads. I just don't know what can realistically be done to help them.
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Those guys you mentioned who are normal or whatever usually end up welded to some dreadful boring ugly chick and pussy whipped to death inside 20 minutes, which is probably a worse path in life than brazzers and pr0n etc. The heavy hitters probably end up in prison for being caught out as some kind of online chomo, or getting caught up in one of those to catch a predator YouTube spin-offs, or indeed making their own quietus via a towel on doorknob type situation.
The former lad could be a lot better off within a couple of tough and potentially scary decisions, and I think a lot of guys do make that jump at some point and kind of become more chill and alpha out of nowhere. The latter is a dangerous man with a tiny willy who aches to spread his wrath among the living. But in real life, not in some weird online game.
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Helping the ones who genuinely deserve it feels - ikky too.
I mentioned on the forum a few times about a really great friend of ours. He was forever single. Went on dates that simply never worked out using things like Tinder. And we simply could not figure it out. He was a great catch. Lovely in many ways. Fairly attractive according to the gals around me. Always going totally out of his way for his friends. But he was failing so often he was slowly going "Incel" in the "The world is out to hate me and women are all against me" kind of way.
Wasn't until I took him speed dating that I saw a few issues in how he interacted with women as potential romances/sexual encounters that I actually saw the problem. Wouldn't have guessed at the issues until I saw him in "Action" and it all became clear. And he got no "hits" at all at the Speed Dating that night.
So I coached him and helped him in a few ways to deal with the things I saw. Thing he never saw in himself that it took someone outside him to notice and address. And it all worked out great in the end. He is now in a relationship after another speed dating session - where he got majority "hits" - and they seem mad about each other.
So being able to help such a guy wasn't the issue. But how it felt helping him is another issue. I extremely dislike the whole manipulative charlatan "PUA" movement. And working with a guy to help him up his game to attract women felt too much like that. It felt slimy. Now granted I was not coaching anything even remotely PUA like so my ikky feelings probably were not warranted in any way. But the PUA movement is so slimey and awful and abhorrent to me that I couldn't not feel ikky by proxy by even working in that same sphere at all.
All in all I am glad I helped the guy sort out a few things. As is he as he never stops expressing his gratitude. I never - ever - want to have to do anything like it again though.
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I doubt it works like that in reality. I'd say most of them just adapt to being single or sort their problem out and meet a woman they can form a normal connection with. I'd say a very small percentage of them end up as any kind of deviants.
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Oh the helping part felt good. Still does.
It was just the thing that I was specifically helping him with that did not. I guess it just put me in the mind of the PUA people and I felt ikky by proxy. Coaching anyone in order to improve their chances of finding a partner has just been given a bad name by those people. Though much of PUA is about the guy manipulating the girl - while pretty much all I was doing was about the guy improving himself - it still felt like that whole "domain" to me and I did not like it.
I do not regret doing it. I just hope never to have to repeat the experience.
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But like most things there is some really good stuff in PUA or NLP. Not the creepy stuff but some basic science of attraction, being relaxed, sitting and standing relatively straight, don't wear your sleeves over your hands, and some psychological techniques which promote liking such as encouraging the other person to talk and making the normal amount of eye contact and generally looking and behaving like you have the normal amount of pride in yourself. That's the bit I think the incel lads miss. If you don't look and behave like someone who has the normal amount of pride in and love for themselves and other people and they don't come across like someone who could easily be loved.
The PUA lads go off the deep end almost immediately talking about scripts and all that guff and they have a pretty disrespectful attitude to women which is setting up a pretty toxic environment for any relationship. But there are a few body language and behaviour things that are really good habits to adopt. The good parts are probably all contained in NLP. And the incel lads could benefit from adopting some of the techniques.
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