Any other women here vote NO for the 8th?

I'm pro-choice, but I have had two children since the 8th was abolished. Calling me a "pro-abort" doesn't make any sense because it implies I got my girlfriend pregnant so we could just abort the babies. And "anti-life" makes me sound like I'm some sort of super villain intent on genocide. It's almost as if we, you know, had the choice! The choice to do what suited us in our circumstances.

On the other hand, "pro-birth" and "anti-choice" are actually fairly accurate terms for the viewpoints of those that label themselves "pro-life". Those that label themselves "pro-life" are against other people from having the choice in proceeding with a pregnancy, regardless of their circumstances. They also want the baby born at all costs and don't spare a thought for either them or their mothers once they are born.

The established terms are "pro-life" and "pro-choice", and have been for a long time. You can throw in whatever makey uppey labels you want to a discussion but if you want any sort of serious discussion, you can leave this belligerence at the door.

This is complete nonsense. The Supreme Court ruled (before repeal) that no constitutional rights existed for an embryo/foetus apart from the 8th amendment. Which we then repealed, and replaced with wording that says that abortion can be legislated for. The Dail can change the 12 week limit to whatever it chooses. The 12 week limit was chosen primarily out of political cowardice.

In the course of my life I have had dozens of friends; and I didn't judge them, so don't you judge me on no evidence, either.

I can still have a view on the ethics of an action without "judging" those who chose it.

It's amazing how it always seems to be people who label themselves pro life that know "dozens" or "loads" of people who have had abortions.

I'm a man and I don't know of any female friends that have had abortions. My girlfriend doesn't know if any of her friends have had any. Collectively, some probably have but just haven't told us. Or maybe we're the only people in this country who don't get told by their friends when they have abortions.

I cannot empathise with anybody that can read a post like this and still think that voting no was the right thing to do.

I don't know you however you have my deepest condolences and respect.

Because most decent people are, at the very least, sympathetic towards people dealing with unwanted pregnancies, I don't think that sort of language from the 'No' side did their own cause any favours during the referendum campaign. I often wonder, if the likes of you had said nothing at all during that campaign, would the result have been closer?

you think the man should decide that the woman must get an abortion? have a word with yourself.

What’s nonsense about it? I’m not even sure what part of my post you’re saying is nonsense when you acknowledge that it was because of the existence of the 8th amendment in the first place was the State’s acknowledgment of the right to life of the unborn. “Apart from the 8th” is doing a hell of a lot of the heavy lifting in your post to suggest that I’m talking nonsense.

Do you not remember the X case in 1992 when the family asked Gardaí could DNA from the aborted foetus would be admissible as evidence in Court? Do you not remember what happened next?

It was the introduction of the 8th amendment that legislated for abortion, before then it was unlawful, and legislation introduced after the 8th limited the conditions under which an abortion was lawfully permissible. It’s why we had the referendum in 1992 and the proposed 12th amendment was rejected, while the 13th and 14th amendments passed.

Because of the 13th it was possible for women to travel outside the State for an abortion, but because aftercare was not provided by the State upon their return, it led to the A, B and C case v Ireland -

Which led to the POLDPA legislation being introduced in Irish law some 20 years after the outcome of the referendum which followed the X case -

And all of this was BEFORE the death of Savita Halapannavar and the repeal of the 8th amendment which led to the introduction of THIS Act in 2018 -

STILL limiting the conditions under which an abortion could either be regarded as lawful or unlawful, and whether or not we agree it was political cowardice or what I would consider pure stupidity which makes absolutely no sense, made no sense at the time, and still makes no sense - the 12 week limit was touted long before the referendum as a means to assuage “fears” of what some people refer to as “abortion on demand”, and politicians at the time caving under pressure stuck it in there as yet another shìtty “compromise” the same as they did when proposing the wording of the 8th amendment in the first place to assuage “fears” that Ireland might follow Roe v Wade in the States.

The 12 week limit is balls, frankly, when it can lead to outcomes of legal uncertainty and medical professionals reluctant to act for fear they might fall foul of the legislation such as in cases like this -

No, it really doesn’t, seeing as men do not have the capacity to become pregnant. They have the same rights as women do in those circumstances should they ever find themselves expecting rather unexpectedly and they do not wish to become a father. It has no bearing upon whether or not a pregnant woman may seek a termination of her pregnancy in any case.

If you don’t want to be a father, abstain or use birth control. See what I did there?

Women could have sex 24/7 without risk of pregnancy if there are no viable sperm around.

Men can also have sex 24/7 if they keep their viable speed away from any eggs

Also, men can’t get pregnant so it doesn’t affect them in any way.

Birth control can fail (approx 9% for pill, 13% for condoms). Get a vasectomy (<1% and reversible.) Much better don’t you think?