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Any other women here vote NO for the 8th?



  • I think you have been far too kind in your analysis.

  • Perhaps but I usually like to START a new conversation with a new person assuming the best about them, not the worst, until they directly give me cause to do otherwise. Benefit of the doubt and all that :)

    Plus on this topic during the Referendum I got a lot of PMs on boards thanking me for my input and how I treated people during the debates. Even by people who were strongly and entirely against my position. So it seems treating them with that level of respect had very positive results. So I have tried to keep it up, even when instinct suggested doing otherwise.

  • True, but by "assume the best" I mean I do not jump straight to any conclusion that the person is a wind up merchant and I assume they will be engaging in the conversation in good faith, honestly and with basic decorum. Until given direct rather that vicarious reason to assume otherwise that is generally how I approach people in a conversation if I have never engaged with that person before.

  • So what exactly are you arguing about then?

    You voted to repeal? You agree with abortion.

    I'm not sure why you are arguing

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  • But I already gave you reasons why 'my body, my choice' is perfectly reasonable.

    And you basically agreed.

    Not sure why you would argue on such a strange point, considering you agree with abortion

  • I guess the key point of difference between us is whether a 'swing back' on this issue over say the next few decades is a realistic possibility. Without at least some hope of that there is no point in engaging in any sort of activism on the issue. Why, fundamentally, did opposition to divorce evaporate entirely after the 1995 referendum passed by a wafer-thin majority? IMO it was because the antis recognised there was no possibility of the Irish people changing their mind on the issue and so there was no point expending any further energy on a lost cause. In most western democracies that have had 'liberal abortion' since the 1960s and 1970s there has been very little pushback on the issue and I don't anticipate Ireland being any different over the half-century after our belated liberalisation.

  • I'm not sure that there's a huge difference between us on the point of 'swing back'. I'm probably better described as cautious rather than pessimistic. It's not that I think there's a strong likelihood, it's that I think people shouldn't take social liberalism for granted, hence my comment about the need for vigilance. On the question of divorce, it's worth noting that Ireland has a restrictive and conservative legal regime for divorce by international standards.

  • Yet bodily autonomy and control is a vitally important defence against people who would make abortion unlawful - particularly people who tend to rely on terms like "unborn" and "protection" to justify their views.

  • It's worth noting that Ireland has a restrictive and conservative legal regime for abortion by international standards...

    Bring back the :pac: !

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  • But but but it's led to unconditional and limitless abortions and essentially being used as contraception!!!

  • Look at them hooers havin' sex all over the place and no baby, it's a scandal Joe.

    Bring back the :pac: !

  • No matter how much the "pro-life" side dance around it this is what it always comes back to.

  • In which case Ireland needs to liberalise its legal regime in relation to both abortion and divorce.