Abortion in America

Igotadose · 05-09-2021 8:46am

OK, the abortion thing is very noticeable and controversial. It's not the only thing in Texas, though. It's a damned good place to live, there's a reason this is the most popular destination for Californians leaving the State.

Lower minimum wage in Texas vs. Ca. $7.25/hour vs. $14. Employers are leaving the state for that, along with tax incentives. Employees follow, or are screwed.

Most difficult State to vote in per https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article246564983.html

Personally doubt Animal Protection ratings in a state that still has rodeos. (Yeah, even New Jersey has rodeos. Barbaric in my opinion.)

FWIW, I know Californians who left for Texas, and returned. My own parents were there in 1946 on their honeymoon. Dad wanted to stay. Mom thought about it, but they returned to Brooklyn. I occasionally wonder how things might've been had they stayed.

05-09-2021 11:09am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848481#Comment_117848481

You don't live in America, but obsess about their internal affairs. I don't like either side. The differences are slight. There's no doubt thought that the far left of the US, increasingly affecting Europe, is as poisonous. The spread of extreme ideologies and the incessant culture wars. The colonisation of the European mind.

The main reason to hate the US though is because of its external actions, and leaving Afghanistan is actually a good thing. This kind of thing is what America will be judged on:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/oct/04/yemen-famine-feared-as-starving-children-fight-for-lives-in-hospital

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 1:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848937#Comment_117848937

I do live in America.

I'm equally vocal on threads here about Irish politics and UK politics.

You're like the other guy on here, seemingly trying to quite discussion of particular topics, probably because you know they show conservatives in a bad light.

Manic Moran · 05-09-2021 3:28pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848605#Comment_117848605

Lower cost of living as well. And for employers, lower cost of facilities and operations even before looking at wages. I doubt companies like Oracle pay minimum wage. When my employer shifted from California to Texas, our wages stayed the same. I am a remote employee and thus was not required to move, but we decided we liked the idea of the wife not having to work and she could raise the baby instead. We find it highly unlikely we will return to CA unless major changes occur.

As for rodeos, there's not a State in the union which doesn't have them. San Francisco has a big one, https://www.cowpalace.com/p/grandnational , even Dublin, CA (my old home) has one in the area. https://rowellranchrodeo.com/

Faugheen · 05-09-2021 4:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848937#Comment_117848937

TMH does live in the US.

Nice effort to deflect from the effort they went through to highlight how your 'both sides' argument is a load of sh*te by telling them they don't live in the US when they absolutely do.

Also some rubbish about obsessing over internal affairs while trying to take the cop out of 'both sides'.

The Republican Party, for the most part, is genuinely evil in the way so many of their policies pit ordinary working people of the US against one another.

A lot of Democrat policies, whether Republican voters like it or not, actually benefit 'both sides'.

05-09-2021 4:30pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850018#Comment_117850018

I always regret getting involved in these threads because of the sheer colonisation of the minds on here. Both sides in the US are evil. Trump is evil. Obama is evil. Biden is evil. It's an evil empire. It invades countries at a whim. It's born on genocide and slavery. Its actions have destabilised where you actually live, Europe.

To those of you who don't live in the US, in your insane minds the abortion laws in Texas are a big deal. To the sane, not so much. It's a different country. Try and actually work out what is happening in Europe.

To those of you who do want to talk about internal US politics the internet has almost infinite space to discuss what is happening in the US, this is Ireland. A sub forum for Americans and colonised Irish people who think like you that, and itt could be a private group, might end the madnesss.

Timberrrrrrrr · 05-09-2021 4:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850080#Comment_117850080

Or you could just not click on a thread that clearly has America in the title.

I have no interest in golf, model cars or wrestling, guess what I do when I see a thread title that is clearly about those subjects.

I scroll on by, try it, you may surprise yourself and not get triggered so much by subjects that you clearly have no interest in.

Why you feel the need to tell everyone who does have an interest in said subject that they shouldn't be discussing it is quite confusing if I'm honest.

05-09-2021 5:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850099#Comment_117850099

or I can come in here and criticise both sides.

This is current affairs, by implication it’s the current affairs of Ireland, Europe, then the world. There are actions that the US takes that affect the rest of the world, Afghanistan for instance, then theres an act by an individual State in the US, which isn’t even federal policy. Not that we get that much about US foreign policy unless unavoidable - no Afghanistan until withdrawal, no Yemen now, Syria drops from the news as the US disengages. And so on.

05-09-2021 5:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850239#Comment_117850239

It can still be of interest to plenty of posters. In this case, it's pretty relevant cause it's regressive policies coming into place. Plenty of events in the small towns in France and Poland have become global news. Eg LGBT free zones in certain areas of Poland, weird local anti immigration policies in France.

It may not interest you and that's fine. But often such small events can foreshadow far greater issues at play.

Itssoeasy · 05-09-2021 5:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117848605#Comment_117848605

You’d have been a cowboys fans instead of a jets fan.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 5:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850080#Comment_117850080

Maybe try ringing the Gardai and tell them that you are being forced in to discussions you don't want to take part in.

I specifically wrote a detailed response showing the lack of objective evidence in 'both-sidesing' the assessment of Republicans and Democrats. Please give examples to challenge that, given my post was in response to a post of yours, or discuss other elements of the topic the thread or, you know, stay out of it. It's clearly beyond your capacity to understand why people are interested in discussing current affairs even ones that don't directly/immediately impact them.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 5:48pm

The irony of a conservatives looking for a safe-space is just jawdropping.

Actually, know, it isn't, it's another example of their MO of 'accuse others of that which you are guilty'.

05-09-2021 5:51pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850099#Comment_117850099

You don't like wrestling?

How dare you?

05-09-2021 6:01pm

The “both sides” argument is patently nonsense and at best is a cop out or just a lazy anti-politics statement that doesn’t want to deal with the reality of it, or (more usually) a way of burying the nastiness of one side into a “they’re all the same” argument.

The simple reality of it is that the GOP has been taken over by an extreme right wing, socially conservative, usually highly religious element, who seem to have a belief that their right to govern or legislate comes from god or a notion of moral superiority, not the people.

So things like human rights, democracy etc is all just an annoyance or an irrelevance to them. They see their constitution as their, often twisted, interpretation of scripture and everything else is secondary to that. If you think they’re likely to compromise you’re kidding yourself. They aren’t going to find some bipartisan moderate centre ground. They’re hardcore fundamentalists and they now dominate the GOP nationally and in certain states.

It comes from an idiotic tactic that pandered to them to get the GOP into power by playing on trigger issues. The old establishment in that party thought they could control and use it, but instead it’s taken over the party, much like Brexit/UKIP consumed the Tories when they brought it in and tried to use it.

To say that that all sides are the same is just utter nonsense though. They’ve completely different world views, attitudes to democracy, human rights, socioeconomic issues etc etc etc.

Akrasia · 05-09-2021 6:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850239#Comment_117850239

The fragility of the US political system has consequences for everyone around the world. The SCOTUS have signaled that they do not care about the US constitution. When a Supreme Court sanctions blatantly unconstitutional laws then it’s a very serious symptom of a failing state.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 6:39pm

The notion of people reporting women getting abortions in right wing Texas is ironically ripped straight from the soviet era in East Germany.

Some of the other discussion here is nauseating. Yes this is a bizarre change in Texas state law, what it isn't is an excuse to say "look I told you so" in relation to anything any conservative person has ever said about anything at any point in time. Some of the moral grandstanding here from the usual suspects is anything but surprising but nonsensical nonetheless.

Akrasia · 05-09-2021 6:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850381#Comment_117850381

Yeah. The Democrats are currently trying to bring in reforms that include free preschool education, improved healthcare, free community college, paid maternity leave, infrastructural improvements etc, and and Biden is withdrawing from Afghanistan and releasing the 9/11 reports that shielded Saudi from their responsibility for the attacks…

Meanwhile the Republicans are doing everything that they can do to prevent these reforms while also introducing laws to prevent minorities from voting and persecuting women and girls by denying them access to abortion and turning the public into vigilante gestappo, empowered to make the lives of anyone who provides reproductive services a living hell

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 6:46pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850509#Comment_117850509

Maybe you'd like to counter it with objective content or just admit you can't do so. This is further evidence of why people want this conversation shut down. It's close to impossible to defend the conservatives on it.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 8:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850542#Comment_117850542

I wasn't attempting to defend the changes to the law in Texas, so I'm confused as to why you're asking me to do so.

My interest in this thread centres on the victory lap the thread has become for some people over anything remotely conservative in any setting.

Other posters have mentioned that both "sides" are equally capable of doing reprehensible things which is demonstrably correct, the holier than thou attitude of some people here in the wake of this discussion is frankly laughable.

The antics of people on both "sides" never seems to amaze me, the notion that the views of the left are in some constant danger of being shut down and silenced is a personal favorite of mine. No such danger exists and there's plenty of left leaning posters who have tried to shut down discussions they haven't liked on this site over the years and that isn't tolerated either.

You all need a reality check to be honest. Time to grow up and accept other viewpoints exist and learn to deal with them like an adult.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 8:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850841#Comment_117850841

Can you please have a look at post 120 and maybe counter that with evidence that saying both sides are the same is demonstrably correct.

We are dealing with this as adults, by pointing out the fallacy in blase, simplistic catchphrases.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 8:48pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850854#Comment_117850854

It would appear that the accepted logic here is that all conservatives are religious ideologues and that anything that isn't left of centre is based in intolerance. That patently isn't true.

I consider myself centre-ist, I don't have a dog in this fight, but the irony of describing some things as fallacies whilst dealing in your own fallacies seems completely lost on you.

In the last century we have seen extremes of right and left wing political ideologies take hold in different parts of the world and both have resulted in death in a massive scale, those are the extremes but more moderate left and right wing systems have failed in their own ways and continue to do so. There is no magic ideology that works perfectly, I wish there was, but the notion that human rights are only respected by left wing groups is utterly baffling and flies in the face of fact.

Here we have conservative Texas introducing a draconian set of measures surrounding abortion. Go to communism China and although measures have been long in place to stop it, sex selective abortion is rife resulting in a disproportionate number of males in the population.

Two ends of the political spectrum two awful situations, neither side is right, both are wrong.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 8:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850943#Comment_117850943

That's a cop out.

No one is arguing that there aren't extremes on a global scale, particularly when you take historical events in to account, but the post I responded to in post 120 specifically referred to the situation in the US ad the commentary since then has been about that.

I'm seeing your post as an attempt to deflect from acknowledging the issue with conservatism in the US. Your point on the opposition ideologies on the global scale and the extremist examples within could be discussed in detail, but it wasn't being discussed here.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 9:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850966#Comment_117850966

It's a cop out when I expand the discussion to a point where you can't win?

I thought we were all free to discuss things on whatever scale we wish?

Do you believe all American conservatives are religious ideologues? Can you prove it?

Get real TMH, as usual the goalposts are on wheels with you one minute and rooted to the spot the next.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 9:03pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850997#Comment_117850997

Lol. You start talking about things going on in China and suggest I am the one who moved the goalposts.

No I don't believe all American conservatives are religious ideologues, but I believe all ideologues are Conservative.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 9:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851009#Comment_117851009

Talk about copping out.

The reason China is relevant to the discussion is that it is operates a communist system, which is something that is increasingly fetishised by left wing groups in America.

The lessons of history are always worth learning, the democrats at one point were no friends of African Americans for example, things are more fluid than you care to recognize and always will be.

Everything is relative in a discussion once you turn a single issue into an excuse to wag your finger at anyone you feel may be in any way connected to it.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 9:22pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851053#Comment_117851053

The reason China is relevant to the discussion is that it is operates a communist system, which is something that is increasingly fetishised by left wing groups in America.

Link please.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 9:31pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851104#Comment_117851104

Sure thing... https://www.google.com/

There are plenty of left wing weirdos (and yes right wing weirdos exist as well) advocating the virtues of communism as a way forward for America.

That's the thing about extremists, their views are extreme, but as you are quick to point out when the extremism in question is of the ring wing variety, we should all be alert to it and what it could lead to.

Tell me how · 05-09-2021 9:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851132#Comment_117851132

That's the thing about conservatives. They paint Democratic ideals as the dreaded bogeyman irrespective of the lack of evidence to support it.

And once again, the examples I've given are all sitting or recent members of congress. That's where laws are made and the evidence is that the extremists are on one side of the debate.

Thanks for posting as you have done, you've evidenced my point perfectly. I'm off out.

nullzero · 05-09-2021 9:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851166#Comment_117851166

Here's a link to a YouTube video showing some wackos lobbying for communism... https://youtu.be/XOkfTxPyEPA

What you've said above can also be applied to either side of the argument.

That's the thing about people with entrenched views, they dehumanise the other side with aplomb and reduce them to caricatures who become their bogeymen of choice.

The thing is my friend, there are oddballs aplenty in the world of all denominations. Just because you align yourself in one way doesn't absolve those you align yourself with of their misdeeds.

Like I said previously, time to grow up and see things for how they really are. Enjoy your day.

05-09-2021 9:57pm

I find these arguments utterly facile, yet they seem to be accepted by a lot of people commentating in the USA.

It’s this false equivalency garbage that has been a huge part of allowing this to happen in the first place.

You are looking at a group of primarily religious zealots and extreme social conservatives. They are nothing whatsoever to do with historical platform of liberal economics, small state, moderate centre right or when normal right wing politics as the GOP once was.

The party has been hijacked by nutters basically.

I wouldn’t be a big fan of the kinds of policies the GOP once stood for, but this is basically the opposite of what that party once meant.

It’s gross state interference into people’s personal lives. It’s removing freedom of choice and it’s baking religion into a country that was once proudly secular as one of its core principles and values.

The Republican Party was all about small government and personal freedom. They don’t know what they are anymore. They’re beginning to look more like the governments of Vichy France or Franco’s Spain, or modern Russia or Turkey - deeply conservative, controlling, paternalistic and very open to using the organs of the state to coerce and control. That isn’t American republicanism at all.

The USA operates as a de facto two party system and has evolved into a rather extreme example of that, where 3rd parties are just non entities. One of those two parties going crazy can do immense damage as there isn’t really a viable replacement for it. People keep voting for Red or Blue.

My view of it is that if the GOP can’t rid itself of this crazy, the USA is on a path towards a hell of a lot of instability.

Abortion in America

Comments