Abortion in America

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851236#Comment_117851236

The one thing I agree with you on is the two party system being untenable.

If you want to understand why American conservatives have become so aligned with as you put it, nutters, you need look no further than what has happened to American society post 9/11, America changed in such an immense way that is almost forgotten about twenty years on from that event, freedoms and rights forfeited for the "greater good" notions of patriotism ramped up to incredible extremes an "US V Them" mentality openly encouraged the space for liberal ideologies away from the major cities dwindled whilst anything traditional was put on a pedestal all whilst the economic situation for people in traditionally conservative areas worsened. The perfect breeding ground for the ideologies you find so repugnant was created.

9/11 itself was an event facilitated by Afghanistan which was under Taliban rule at the time, a group who came into existence as a result of the soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s. Everything is connected in some way, the left and right wings affect each other directly and indirectly all through history, if you feel rationalising that is facile then more fool you.

You ended your post by saying that America is on a path to a hell of a lot of instability, I wonder then how you would describe America over the last few years if not unstable?

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851196#Comment_117851196

Again, I've pointed out acts by sitting Conservatives, you're responding with what looks like students advocating for communism. Do you not see any disparity there?

You're not comparing like with like.

Would you accept a video from a Klan meeting as evidence of conservative ideals, or call them extremists?

[Deleted User]

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117850854#Comment_117850854

Life exists outside the Empire. Both "sides" are evil war mongers who bomb, scar, and starve children and civilians. Both sides support the Israeli supremacist state. Both sides ally with the ugliest religious countries in the Middle East, like Saudi.

There's nothing in the least "conservative" about stating that, it is the standard left wing case against the genocidal American empire. All Americans are complicit.

I posted a picture of a dying Yemeni child. If you do live in America try and stop that rather than whine about the evil conservatives within the US. Your side is in power.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851397#Comment_117851397

Yes, As epitomized with the Patriot Act, and the weaponization of the concept of patriotism used to this day to dismiss anyone calling for improvements in how society operates.

But it wasn't liberals who did either of these things was it?

[Deleted User]

I agree 9/11 absolutely screwed up American society. It was a terrible incident, but I think the issue is quite complex in the sense that it had a more profound impact on their sense of security and confidence that is often admitted to.

They brush off regular and horrific mass shootings, because they’re domestic in origin and there’s a rather odd gun culture, but 9/11 seemed to send them into a major security lockdown mentality in way that I don’t think I’ve ever seen in Europe or elsewhere.

Many European have endured horrible terrorist attacks over the decades and also have a memory of wars that occurred close to home, not across seas. There’s a robustness in the European response that tends to mean people dust themselves off, pick themselves up and life goes on as normal, not letting terrorism actually inflict terror, which is its aim.

I think though it’s complex in the USA. These culture wars go back a long way too, particularly the race relations issues which are linked very directly to what is absolutely living history of the struggle for civil rights. I mean pre 1960s US has a lot in common with Apartheid South Africa, it just tends to market itself to itself in a way that somehow seems to imagine that stuff happened somewhere else, maybe in a movie.

Then you’ve also had issues with extremely socially conservative movements at times. It’s a country that has had full prohibition of alcohol, quite strict moralised censorship and so on.

On the other side of it it’s also been at the forefront of many liberalising movements too over the years. It’s a complex place.

Aspects of the USA feel like perhaps Britain or Western Europe without the post WWII shift towards social democratic systems. At times it almost feels like the US is a bit like Edwardian society just continued as was, getting all the tech innovations, but perhaps relatively fewer social innovations, particularly around welfare and so on.

I don’t think you can really sum it up other than to say that the USA is in a period or turmoil at the moment. Is it unprecedented? Maybe not - look back at the 1960s and there are a lot of parallels.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851449#Comment_117851449

Sorry but that argument doesn't hold water.

College campuses are a reflection of what becomes increasingly acceptable, particularly with regard to how the left has evolved over the last half decade or more, in the mainstream down the line.

There is a thread on this site telling the reader that the National Party are now a part of mainstream Irish politics and that they constitute a clear danger to the country, when in actual fact they are a poorly organized rabble of cretins. The thread has an insane number of posts, most of them telling us all how the sky is falling in from a liberal perspective. So, what's good for the Goose surely must be good for the gander.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117851996#Comment_117851996

That 'National Party are now mainstream' thread was started by a poster who is clearly a supporter of that party and wants the thread title to be true. So I don't think that thread title can be held up as an example that proves anything. (Ideally the thread title should have been modded to a generic 'NP discussion' or at least have a question mark at the end of it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117852111#Comment_117852111

The majority of posts in the thread are scare mongering about how the national party pose a direct threat to the future of Ireland. The thread has around 58 pages of that type of discussion, so you are in effect, judging the book by its cover.

Timberrrrrrrr

How does this even work? Are they suddenly going to ban rape? Will rape no longer be a thing in Texas?🤷‍♂️

https://twitter.com/KXAN_News/status/1435294934555189258?s=19

Mr. CooL ICE

^^ By giving every potential rape victim a gun. Or something like that

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861792#Comment_117861792

It's Texas. Why wouldn't they legalize it?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839354#Comment_117839354

So a married woman is her husband's chattel.

Fuuuuuck that.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117861899#Comment_117861899

They'll probably just legalise rape...

Tell me how

Good move by DoJ

https://www.npr.org/2021/09/09/1035467999/justice-department-sues-texas-over-new-abortion-ban

Garland noted the law deputizes private citizens "to serve as bounty hunters authorized to recover at least $10,000 per claim from individuals who facilitate a woman's exercise of her constitutional rights."

He pointed out the law has thus far had its intended effect.

"Because this statute makes it too risky for an abortion clinic to stay open, abortion providers have ceased providing services," he said. "This leaves women in Texas unable to exercise their constitutional rights and unable to obtain judicial review at the very moment they need it."

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870760#Comment_117870760

Yeeeah, but it's a suit and reading it, a very complex one. This will, sadly, take a while to work through in the courts. The first judge to hear it will be an Obama appointee.

Tell me how

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117870898#Comment_117870898

Absolutely, but it is a pretty fast response to the actions in Texas which does put their cards on the table. Let all the GOP big wigs have to defend taking womens rights just to disagree with an action by the DoJ under Biden.

Timberrrrrrrr

Could this be the first test of the new laws in Texas?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/s/opinions/2021/09/18/texas-abortion-provider-alan-braid/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjI4NTEyNDM3IiwicmVhc29uIjoiZ2lmdCIsIm5iZiI6MTYzMjAyNzg3OSwiaXNzIjoic3Vic2NyaXB0aW9ucyIsImV4cCI6MTYzMzIzNzQ3OSwiaWF0IjoxNjMyMDI3ODc5LCJqdGkiOiI3Njc2YTFkOC03ZmM1LTQ2MTgtOTM3NS0xYWRlODMwYjcwODciLCJ1cmwiOiJodHRwczovL3d3dy53YXNoaW5ndG9ucG9zdC5jb20vb3BpbmlvbnMvMjAyMS8wOS8xOC90ZXhhcy1hYm9ydGlvbi1wcm92aWRlci1hbGFuLWJyYWlkLyJ9.nqHkZbycqFCvizzNB3LywW5OOmJT9MeuskMLVciMLkg

"And that is why, on the morning of Sept. 6, I provided an abortion to a woman who, though still in her first trimester, was beyond the state’s new limit. I acted because I had a duty of care to this patient, as I do for all patients, and because she has a fundamental right to receive this care.

I fully understood that there could be legal consequences — but I wanted to make sure that Texas didn’t get away with its bid to prevent this blatantly unconstitutional law from being tested."

Manky O Toole

So Texas is a pro-life stronghold? No sure what the big deal about that is?

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910655#Comment_117910655

Consider this scenario

You have a 12 year old daughter.

Your daughter is raped and is now pregnant.

Your daughter asks for an abortion.

You facilitate your daughters abortion.

Your neighbour/family members/work colleague finds out that you helped your daughter get an abortion.

That person can now sue you for $10,000.

Do you think that is a good thing?

Manky O Toole

Lol at jumping to the most extreme example. She can travel to another state for the abortion.

Probably good idea to get a better job so you don't have to live in poor people neighbourhood where such things happen.

Timberrrrrrrr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910685#Comment_117910685

Taking then to another state to get an abortion would be against Texan law and would still leave you open to prosecution.

Ugh....just noticed join date/post count. I really need to check for re-regs before engaging 🙄

On the list you go.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910685#Comment_117910685

I thought Texas was stopping the crime of rape, are "poor people neighbourhood"s not being included in that? What "poor people neighbourhood"'s in Ireland aren't worthy of our protection anymore? Do you think that "poor people neighbourhood"'s are just in constant purge mode and anything goes?

What a sh*tty response you made :) You'll now be the "poor person neighbourhood" poster (was it in London per chance?) to go along with the "Rashford" poster.

Manky O Toole

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910697#Comment_117910697

If you live in a part of Texas where 12yos are being impregnated through rape, then I think it's fair to say you live in some awful gettho.

No idea what the London Rashford comment relates to.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117910703#Comment_117910703

You don't understand anything about rape statistics, then. But, like Mark Twain said: "“It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than open ones mouth and remove all doubt” ­­

Billy Mays

Only poor people abuse children is an interesting opinion

nj27

It's a case of my baby my choice

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916125#Comment_117916125

Don't know if you did so purposefully but your statement almost sounds paradoxical. The first half sounds pro life and the second half sounds pro choice.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117916855#Comment_117916855

Could simply be nonsense, too.

Faugheen

So oral arguments took place in the Supreme Court over the last couple of days, and it looks like some Justices are, at the very least, wavering on their original decision.

Brett Kavanaugh asked a very interesting question to the Texas State lawyers in that could the mechanisms of this law be applied to, say, gun ownership, and it was followed up by Kagan delivering a knockout blow when the solicitor general tried to fob it off by saying those concerns belong at Congress.

Amy Coney Barrett, somewhat surprisingly, also put Texas through their paces by asking similar questions to Kavanaugh, but instead applying it to religious rights.

Roberts seems to have convinced Kavanaugh and Barrett to move closer to him. Both of them already joined Roberts and the liberals in the mask mandate case AND rejecting a challenge to Maine's vaccine mandate for healthcare workers.

The fact both Kavanaugh and ACB raised concerns about how this mechanism of what is in effect vigilantism to keep the federal courts out of it could be applied to other rights closer to their hearts surely means one or both will turn, no?

The scenes if ACB flips and becomes a hero for pro-choice campaigners.

Of course, hard to trust anything Kavanaugh or ACB say as well.

beeker1

"Choice " a euphemism for outright murder , the child has no say , I'm very loose on most things but abortion on demand is so wrong and indefensible in this day & age 😞