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Abortion in America

  • 02-09-2021 4:50pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,656 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    I haven't seen a thread on this yet but wondering what people's thoughts are.


    Basically now in Texas if you want an abortion after six weeks you can't have one, There is no wiggle room even for rape or incest.


    The worst part is that it's not the police who will get you but your family, friends, neighbours. They can sue health care professionals or If you help someone obtain an abortion you can be sued. They have even incentivesed people to report anyone getting an abortion by offering a $10,000 "reward".


    Below is the White House statement on the matter, hopefully they can somehow get this overturned.




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Comments

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,319 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    Such a weird Orwellian way to go about trying to restrict abortion. I presume most of the actual suing will be of clinics/medical facilities? If an individual woman is seeking an abortion, in most cases who else would know?



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,611 ✭✭✭ MrMusician18


    No, what I'm saying is that a) this is none of our business and B) debating it here will only serve to further import the US's poisonous culture war.

    If the US wants to tear itself apart, let them at it. That's their problem.



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,656 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    If you help someone obtain an abortion, if you drive them to a clinic to get one then you too can be sued. What a crazy situation, and rape/incest? It doesn't matter.



  • Registered Users Posts: 10,233 ✭✭✭✭ TheValeyard


    White House probably use this as an excuse to appoint more liberal judges to the Supreme Court. It had been talked about previously.

    Think the whole thing with Texas is coming down to State laws vs Federal laws. Which has its supporters and detractors on both sides.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,654 ✭✭✭ Quantum Erasure


    we won't solve it here tonight anyway....



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,517 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    They have even incentivesed people to report anyone getting an abortion by offering a $10,000 "reward".

    Wow.



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,756 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    OP, I'm guessing that you're pro-abortion, which is fine, but I'm still guessing because you didn't really place your opinions for us to follow.

    I am curious though about something. Where do you think it leads to? Think of Asia, maybe China in particular, where a girl/woman can get an abortion for a 100 dollars. Or hit one of the backstreet places for less (no identification needed). I had university students aged 20 who were already past their 3rd abortion and didn't see anything wrong with it. It was fast, easy, cheap, etc. No moral confusion or guilt trip involved. They were pregnant and they removed the problem... because that is what abortion is about.

    It's one thing to give women the choice, it's another thing to consider what will happen in society when those choices are exercised. Do you favor limiting women's choices to match your moral standards, or should it be a free-for-all where they can abort any time they want?

    ----

    Now, personally, I've always viewed this as being a womans choice, however, if she's married, it shouldn't be allowed without her husbands consent. Takes two to tango and all that. So, obviously, I feel that there should be limitations in place to restrict how an abortion is approved. The option should be available for women, but restrictions should be in place to avoid the culture that Asia has about them.

    So, where would you stand on it? Not the simple question of should Abortion be available, because that's been done to death. How about the harder questions relating to the effect abortion has on society, and people themselves?

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,656 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    Thank you for your well thought out insightful post.


    You are right in your guess that I am not so much pro abortion but certainly pro choice, I'm also in favour of time limits on when abortion should be available to (12 weeks for me seems right, after that only in the case of rape, incest, FFA or if the mothers life is in danger).


    You ask about the effect abortion has on society but on the flip side you have to question the lack of abortions effect on society. Should a woman be forced to raise a child she does not want or cannot afford to have?

    We already have a generation or two of young men growing up without fathers around and without a strong male influence in thier lives it can lead to them taking a path to crime/drugs etc. If the mother had the choice at the time maybe she would have chosen not to carry to term and aborted within the time frame allowed.

    I'm certainly not saying this is the case with all children of single parents but I'm sure it is a factor for some.

    Do you believe the decision made in Texas is a good one? Should a teenage girl get raped tomorrow and her mother takes her to get an abortion should the mother be sued for helping the daughter abort a baby she does not want to have?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,756 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    You didn't answer my question. You deflected with your own.

    Personally, I'm in favor of pro-choice for all women, although with a clear restriction of the number of abortions within a certain timeframe. I believe anyone who is applying for an abortion should be investigated by "family services" or something similar to ensure that they're not in an abusive relationship. Just as I believe that abortion should never be allowed to become a casual choice. There needs to be some gravitas involved, without a guilt trip.

    We need to recognise that our societies are changing, and many of the frameworks for morality are being removed. Religion is increasingly being pushed back, which is where a lot of our morals about sex and abortions came from. Yes. It was a flawed system, and remarkably unfair to women, but what is replacing it? Nothing as far as I can see. And no, I don't have an answer to that question..

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,656 ✭✭✭✭ Timberrrrrrrr


    I agree with you that abortion shouldn't be a free for all and I don't believe it is, we heard this before the referendum about how women would be using it as a means of contraception but that was just the pro life side using that as scaremongering, there is no proof of this happening in Ireland.


    On religion, I'm happy to seeing it pushed back and would be even happier if all religions would disappear tomorrow. I believe Religion has been the biggest cause of death in the world since the first man made up the first "god".



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,251 ✭✭✭✭ Cookie_Monster


    So whats to stop you travelling to the next state over, just like what Irish women used to have to do?

    Or is out of state medical care in the US another no-no



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,756 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    Ahh... but I already provided the scenario for abortion being a free for all... Asia. It's extremely common there, advertised in fashion magazines, and in subways alongside plastic surgery. The question is whether we'll end up the same way.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 13,319 ✭✭✭✭ Loafing Oaf


    It's very common everywhere. I'm not really seeing how Asia is much different from anywhere else with 'liberal' abortion laws. It's free in Ireland you know...



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,958 ✭✭✭ ceadaoin.


    Well it doesn't seem to have gone that way in the US in all the years that abortion has been available does it?



  • Registered Users Posts: 15,756 ✭✭✭✭ klaz


    I guess that depends on what state you look at, and which particular demographic... but honestly, I don't know that much about it. I have a few American friends and remember a conversation about abortion being very common in the South, especially among the poorer/less educated regions. I don't pay much attention to American society anymore.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle 



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭ Multipass


    It’s Texas though, the next state over could be a 14 hour drive. They may as well just say that abortion is banned outright, 6 weeks is just at the limit of finding out you’re pregnant - the day you conceive you’re already at 2 weeks!



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,546 ✭✭✭ Blaaz_



    A state that will pay people to inform on their neighbours,will eventually either end up autoritarian as fcuk or decend into anarchy imo



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,517 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    It's true that the line will be different for everyone. But I certainly don't think that the line is to be drawn any where near paying people to rat out girls who have had, or are thinking of having, an abortion.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 16,517 ✭✭✭✭ Tony EH


    Nothing. Except perhaps Mrs Miggins down the road knows that you're up the duff and then all of a sudden you're not and she's entitled to a big payout for informing on you.



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