Joe Rogan downplays the need for a vaccination and gets covid

Carfacemandog · 02-09-2021 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839164#Comment_117839164

Cheers, the caps fecked me up!

USA has about 34% more cases per capita than Ireland, but about 700% more deaths per capita, based on 7 day rolling averages.

ohnohedidnt · 02-09-2021 6:45pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839090#Comment_117839090

Some countries are using it, so there is obviously some dissent. My point is why does anybody care about what drugs other people are taking to fight an illness? It has no bearing on anybody else's life, people have been making bad drug decisions since drugs were discovered. Joe is also a big proponent of DMT and Weed, nobody is mentioning that.

For some reason people are getting defensive because they feel Ivermectin is some sort of challenge to to almighty saviour, the vaccine. When it is nothing of the sort, and is really sort of irrelevant, so why the focus on that?

Penn · 02-09-2021 6:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839090#Comment_117839090

Oh sure, you can post actual testing and evidence, but Joe does "independent thinking" and really, isn't that the more important thing?

02-09-2021 6:58pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839204#Comment_117839204

Imagine that was the logic for vaccines - " some people are using it, sure it's failed all the trials so far, but get the big-boy pants on"?

It actually deters a not inconsiderate gullible amount of people from getting vaccines because they believe in the unproven (all trials so far) ivermectin, which do work for preventing infection (less with Delta), cuts long covid risk (new 1 million person study out today), cuts drastically severe illness and death %

So it will get people severly ill and indeed kill people that way alone, and more than you think

It's also not completely harmless if taken in incorrect doses through non-human products and dubious internet sources are not a great source for medical drugs?

https://theconversation.com/thinking-of-trying-ivermectin-for-covid-heres-what-can-happen-with-this-controversial-drug-167178

Tork · 02-09-2021 7:02pm

People are being distracted by Ivermectin. It isn't clear one way or the other if it is effective as a standalone treatment. It is one of quite a cocktail of drugs that Rogan has been taking. He has obviously been quite ill or in danger of becoming so. Why is there no mention here of the monoclonal antibodies, prednisone (a steroid commonly used for respiratory illnesses) or the drips? No, let's all get obsessed with the horse paste. For all anybody knows, it's the more conventional medications which have been doing the heavy lifting and the Ivermectin is the placebo.

godzilla1989 · 02-09-2021 7:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838999#Comment_117838999

I don't think he's a retail pharmacist

Yes some Irish doctor's do.

godzilla1989 · 02-09-2021 7:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839081#Comment_117839081

Yes

Joe Rogan gets covid, takes some meds from a doctor and feels better. Good for him

But no it's Joe Rogan, bad man, anti-vaxer, stupid man, should have taken the vaccine, not ivermectin, that's poison, unless it's rebranded pfizermectin and will be all good then.

Anyway he successfully beat a disease he was almost certain to beat if he did nothing at all. Thus proving whatever he did works for most.

Instead media wish every unvaccinated person would die, because they blame the unvaccinated for covid still existing

Media is toxic

Carfacemandog · 02-09-2021 7:16pm

Here's a fair idea of how honest Joe "I don't like either party or candidate and am voting 3rd party" is.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QMQrFO5loLM

Yeah, he definitely voted 3rd party... even Tim Dillon called bullshit on it there and then.

02-09-2021 7:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839267#Comment_117839267

that's more likely the case that is was the other drugs for sure given that Ivermectin has failed all trials so far

Ivermectin as you probably know well has become a huge focus point for the gullible and conspiracy theorists, and a big reason these sort of people don't go for vaccine

people are buying horse products containing Ivermectin (particularly in the US) instead of getting vaccines, thinking that it will prevent them from getting Covid and/or cure it

many won't be able to access or afford monoclonal antibodies but can order horse paste

more than you think will get badly ill and even die from Covid as a result, again in the US

the FDA ran a campaign "You're not a horse"

by promoting it like this Rogan has been really stupid and adds fuel to that fire

Brian? · 02-09-2021 7:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839173#Comment_117839173

a classic the Dunne strawman.

I didn’t say they should be shut down. I said they should be challenged. I happen to believe in absolute free speech. This includes telling people they’re wrong and challenging bigots for making bigoted statements.

As I’ve explained to you many times, I’m not a liberal. I’m an extremist.

Brian? · 02-09-2021 7:24pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839110#Comment_117839110

He challenged Owens on her climate change denial. He did not challenge Shapiro on anything that I saw.

You think interviewers should sit and listen? Even when someone is a bigot? You think bigotry is a side of story that deserves equal air time as tolerance? Then he’s the man for you alright.

I happen to think that if someone is being a bigot they should be called out for it. I don’t Rogan is a bigot, but I think he’d lose a massive chunk of his audience if he went hard on the bigots.

c.p.w.g.w · 02-09-2021 7:26pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838199#Comment_117838199

It's also used by humans for a multitude of illnesses as well just a form specific for humans

02-09-2021 7:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839345#Comment_117839345

It is used in humans but has shown across 14 trials so far, none have shown any efficacy in it preventing or treating Covid

The real damage is done (particularly in the US) by people not getting vaccines because they buy into the Ivermectin cure and / or conspiracy theories based around it.

A recent review of 14 ivermectin studies, with more than 1,600 participants, concluded that none provided evidence of the drug’s ability to prevent Covid, improve patient conditions or reduce mortality. Another 31 studies are still underway to test the drug.

“There is great interest in repurposing well-known inexpensive drugs such as ivermectin that are readily available as an oral tablet,” Maria Popp and Stephanie Weibel, the authors of the review, said in an email to The Times. “Even if these circumstances seem ideal, the results from the available clinical studies carried out so far cannot confirm the widely advertised benefits.”

One of the largest trials studying ivermectin for Covid-19 treatment, called the Together Trial, was halted by the data safety monitoring board on Aug. 6 because the drug had been shown to be no better than a placebo at preventing hospitalization or prolonged stay in the emergency room. Dr. Edward Mills, a professor at McMaster University who led the study, which enrolled more than 1,300 patients, said the team would have discontinued it earlier were it not for the level of public interest in ivermectin.

“The data safety person said, ‘This is now futile and you’re offering no benefit to patients involved in the trial,’” Dr. Mills said.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/30/health/covid-ivermectin-prescriptions.html

ancapailldorcha · 02-09-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839345#Comment_117839345

Couldn't care less. Unless it has proven clinical efficacy against covid in humans, Rogan shouldn't be promoting it.

02-09-2021 7:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838199#Comment_117838199

Wait til you hear some of the things penicillin is used for.

02-09-2021 7:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839110#Comment_117839110

He really doesn't challenge anybody.

His podcast is about shooting the breeze rather than holding the other person's feet to the fire.

That's why he's known as Malleable Joe. He blows with whoever's breeze he's chatting to.

circadian · 02-09-2021 8:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117838917#Comment_117838917

It's worse, this is actually a cocktail containing ivermectin and a broad spectrum anti biotic amongst other things.

02-09-2021 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839321#Comment_117839321

Thankfully not everyone is as loose with the term "bigot" as you are.

ardinn · 02-09-2021 8:32pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837512#Comment_117837512

He isnt anti Vax - if you've ever listened to him he clearly promotes it to the vulnerable and elderly, his opinion is that most healthy young people shouldnt need it. But look, dont let that get in the way of your despise for the man!

EmmetSpiceland · 02-09-2021 8:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839556#Comment_117839556

He has since backtracked on that “stance”, saying it makes for young healthy people to get the vaccine for others.

Pat Kenny played a “snippet” of this on his show earlier today.

astrofool · 02-09-2021 9:47pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839267#Comment_117839267

I think that's everybody's point, yet Rogan seems to be shilling the invermectin for some reason (those mono-clonal treatments aren't cheap but very effective, trump promised them for everyone, then lost the election and sat around eating lard instead).

c.p.w.g.w · 02-09-2021 10:11pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839358#Comment_117839358

Well that's fair enough, but if people could stop using inflammatory terms such as "dewormer" "animal medicine" that would be great and honest...

Just to say one thing, Dr Koch was a world expert, and advised on the clinical guidelines in the states for treating Covid19 and he supports Ivermectin, he is an expert and that is who Joe Rogan is pointing to for his support of Ivermectin...

We need to stop labelling everything as misinformation if it doesn't conform to what we believe...

The large scale studies aren't there for ivermectin but there are a few small ones that look promising according to Dr Koch

02-09-2021 10:15pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839901#Comment_117839901

well there was one in the New York times article that I quoted with 1,300 people

that's fairly large scale

It would be great if it's shown to be effective due to cost and safety profile either for prophylaxis or treatment but the evidence so far is not there, in fact it's to the contrary

ancapailldorcha · 02-09-2021 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839901#Comment_117839901

How on earth is it inflammatory when that's what it is? Some random guy's opinion is just that. An opinion. No amount of praise changes that.

It shouldn't need to be said that taking animal medicine for a virus without the data to back it up is the height of stupidity. Why people feel the need to defend fools like this is beyond me.

Brian? · 02-09-2021 11:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839517#Comment_117839517

Generally bigots like yourself avoid the term alright.

Terrible side swerve by the way, you were flat wrong about me wanting people deplatformed, are you going to admit that at least? You lit your strawman and were caught out.

Brian? · 02-09-2021 11:23pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839545#Comment_117839545

He should be admired for listening to bigots. He shouldn’t be admired for allowing them to speak on his podcast with little or no challenge. It’s really that simple.

Everyone’s opinion isn’t equally valid. Everyone deserves to air their opinion but equally everyone deserves to be debated.

One eyed Jack · 02-09-2021 11:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837700#Comment_117837700

That’s why Rogan’s a multi-millionaire and you’re not - he’s mastered the ability to make two completely contradictory statements and appeal to two completely different groups, both groups with selective hearing so they only hear what suits them and think if Rogan agrees with them, they must be right.

Richard Hillman · 03-09-2021 12:32am

Joe Rogan is not anti-vax. All he said is that if you are in the pinnacle of health, there's not much point taking the vaccine. He also says if you are not healthy, you should take the vaccine.

Saying he is anti-vax is intentional misinformation.

03-09-2021 12:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840290#Comment_117840290

Not anti-vax, just shovelling up gibberish for his own enrichment then. Gotcha.

03-09-2021 12:54am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840290#Comment_117840290

Everyone should be vaccinated. It's how vaccines work. It's how we pretty much eradicated things like TB. Global effort is required. Some bald MMA dude going on about not taking the vaccine, and how he managed to fight it using some sleep and a load of off-patent drugs is complete nonsense. Rogan is a moron.

c.p.w.g.w · 03-09-2021 1:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840076#Comment_117840076

Because Ivermectin is used by humans, and the form he speaks about is just that...it's not the same as the ivermectin the sheep farmer uses...it's like saying the potassium in bananas is the same as the potassium used to gas people in the camps in WWII... inflammatory and incorrect

Loafing Oaf · 03-09-2021 1:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117839032#Comment_117839032

Well this is the thing. When prominent influencers start recommending medical treatments that are unproven but probably shouldn't be harmful if done 'properly', you'll get some of their more naive & feckless followers going even further off the reservation, and then stuff like this happens.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/covid-19-when-the-president-speaks-people-listen-and-google-answers/

Eclectic Econometrics · 03-09-2021 1:52am

Historians will look back on this era and marvel at the prevailing idiocy. Social media will get a lot of attention but there will be chapters dedicated to the inordinate level of influence on the zeitgeist by people like Rogan and the Kardashians. The kind of zealotry someone like Rogan inspires, from grown men, is only ever equaled by 12 year old girls defending their favorite boy bands.

Covid is smart, in the way it doesn't make itself know to the host for just long enough for the host to spread the disease on, but its greatest asset is the timing of its entrance into the world, which is chef's kiss epochal perfection.

riclad · 03-09-2021 2:12am

If you are taking your medical advice Re a deadly virus from a actor, comedian podcaster than you are stupid . At this stage we know vaccines protect you against the worst effects of the virus , see newser or drudge, news. American hospitals are almost full of young people who did not get vaccinated. Rogan says he took various drugs and he feels good now. He does not say did he get vaxxed or not. Eg if you have to 2 vaccines you, ll be protected against lethal effects or the worst effects of the vaccines. In theory if you wear a double layer mask when you are near anyone at all outside your home you may never get covid . 2 vaccines potentially give about 70 per cent protection against the delta variant

I think American has major problems in that only about 6o per cent of people are vaccinated and many people are sceptics and are spreading false information about covid 19 and the delta variant is much more infectious than the original virus

dePeatrick · 03-09-2021 2:16am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840378#Comment_117840378

Charles Darwin would have loved it!

ShatterAlan · 03-09-2021 2:38am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117837329#Comment_117837329

But shouldn't you have the choice?

dePeatrick · 03-09-2021 2:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840396#Comment_117840396

The choice to what?

Bobeagleburger · 03-09-2021 3:36am

Thank **** Ireland has laughed in the face of anti vaxxers.

There's too many uneducated in America, and the gap between rich and poor is perhaps greater. Plus, everything is political over there. Ridiculous.

Oranage2 · 03-09-2021 5:17am

I like Joe but his anti-vac stance is a joke, though in fairness he's had doctors on talking about the positives of the vaccine though they weren't too convincing.

For Joe he's rich, he's not getting the bus or working in the public for hours a day. He can afford the hospital treatment available so it's easy for him to preach it. Some poor guy that works in a fast food restaurant dealing with people 8 hours a day would have crippling medical bills if they got covid.

OMM 0000 · 03-09-2021 5:20am

To be fair, he says those who are not really at risk don't need the vaccine.

He's correct, if you go to qcovid.org and play around with the numbers, you can see how absolutely tiny the risks are to certain demographics.

Risk isn't black and white.

03-09-2021 6:12am

It's a real pity that Ivermectin doesn't seem to do much.

Plenty of people are kept alive with medications designed for completely other purposes; anti-malarials for people with immune system problems for example. There's an incredulity regarding this topic as the majority of people don't understand how often off-label medication is used.

"Anti-malarials for an immume system disorder when we don't even have mosquitoes? No way I'm taking that nonsense." is what you'd get if lupus was as politicised and in the news as Covid is.

It seems long Covid is a lot to do with the immune system and triggering these problems, so you're going to have a lot of these off-label medications being recommending in various ways. I hope the mainstream media and divisive politics can leave the scientists and doctors to it.

03-09-2021 6:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840129#Comment_117840129

Absolutely not. My post wasn't totally directed at you. It was you and people similar to you.

"Anything that doesn't align with the "progressive" left need to be completely erased or at least insulted and labelled far right or a bigot"

The fact that you call me a bigot proves my point.

To you, a bigot is someone you disagree with or hold views you disagree with that you just lazily label as bigoted or some sort of -ist.

Brian? · 03-09-2021 7:03am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840236#Comment_117840236

Why the stupid jokes? I’m not calling you a bigot, I’m trying to engage in debate.

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2021 7:51am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840320#Comment_117840320

Except it isn't. The ramblings of whatever latest internet expert you've dug up doesn't change that.

03-09-2021 7:55am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840504#Comment_117840504

I stand by that. I'm not cowering away from my statement about Brian being fast and loose with the word bigot.

My claim was that people who have a similar outlook at worst want to shut things down, and at best just insult people by calling them bigots.

Not sure what you mean?

Brian describes me as a bigot, a label I wholeheartedly refute. I think that he uses the word too easily and cheapens it.

sydthebeat · 03-09-2021 7:57am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840450#Comment_117840450

Its this selfishness when you think "the risks only to myself" that causes the virus to spread wider, for longer, and mutate.

Don't be selfish, it's not a good personality trait.

Brian? · 03-09-2021 8:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117840486#Comment_117840486

bigot:

a person who is obstinately or unreasonably attached to a belief, opinion, or faction, especially one who is prejudiced against or antagonistic towards a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.

I don’t play “fast and loose” with the word bigot, I use it correctly .

You deciding I want to shut down discussion because I’m left wing is bigotry. Your anti trans rants are bigotry. Bigot =/= racist, which is the way most people use it these days

03-09-2021 8:20am

Brian, that exact definition could easily be labelled at you. Then you would bring up that the intolerance paradox.

The fact is that the way the term bigot is used is exceptionally subjective. The people you want Rogan to call out are bigots to you, but not bigots to others. Rogan offers a platform where he allows people to speak freely without being challenged (on the most part) and I think that is fantastic.

I don't particularly like rogan. I don't find him interesting and his interjections on his podcast are my least favourite part. There is a lot to be said to let people speak freely, without interruption or challenge and let their words speak for themselves.

Your issue with Rogan is that he enables (what you refer to as) bigots by not challenging them. Why would he? He isn't as knowledgeable as his guests. Let them speak and let the listeners make up their own minds.

I disagree with you on many topics. Many. You claim the high ground saying that you are only intolerant of intolerance but again, that, again, can be claimed against you. Would you be ok or in agreement with people labelling you a bigot?

I didn't say YOU want to shut down discussion or silence people, but not an insignificant proportion of people who think like you would. You are at the lower end of the scale.

I don't have anti trans rants. I am of the firm belief, based on facts, that a biological man can't be a woman (and vice versa) and when questioned, I will defend my stance. It's not a rant.

But that's for another thread.