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Are you concerned about the destruction of the natural world and climate change?

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    Buying stuff only when needed. Repairing where possible.

    buying local food.

    composting and growing our own veg (obviously only goes so far with the veg growing, but we are composting all good scraps).

    recycling as much as possible, but trying to generate less waste by following point 1.

    what are you doing if anything?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    Local authorities will be missing the rates, ESB not getting the big bills for air-con and lighting, also these buildings would be leased and the owners would be getting jumpy over the future requirements if people were working from home,



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @_Brian I do understand farmers have way more knowledge on this than the general but there are issues. I was responding to someone who seems a bit blind to that.

    I don’t think NPK is complex enough to be honest and it’s a big cost. There is a lot more than three macro nutrients needed a lot of the time.

    I think education of farmers in key and having them on board. People do their best.

    We shouldn’t put our heads in the sand and think everything is perfect. Lots of slurry spills are small and not reported. When tanks are full they are emptied regardless of the weather. I know silage is very silage is very good for cattle but it’s really because of silage that there are a lot less wildflowers in my opinion.

    I don’t have the answers but the system isn’t perfect by any means.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    You know your wrong but like all fanatics you can't admit it,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    so why have our waterways become more and more polluted in the last couple of decades? They are far worse than they were 50 years ago but you're saying things are better now?




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    There’s a bigger issue here.

    lots of pension funds have invested in these buildings.

    aren’t the value of commercial premises like this directly related to the rental income. If there’s no demand for rent the value drops and pension funds collapse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The system isn’t perfect.

    Yet it’s not the catastrophe people talk about oas of their opinions were facts.

    id hazard a guess that my knowledge of farmers and farming is a tad more than your own, I can honestly say that slurry is rarely spread “just because a tank is full”. There are occasions where cowboys will, but the vast majority plan ahead and don’t fall into this category.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    The guys trying to argue that we should be concerned about how we are treating our life support machine (the planet) and your calling him a fanatic?

    Do you realise how immature you sound?



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @_Brian sure it’s the same with lamb. As far as I know a lot of organic lamb is labelled as regular due to customer preference. The organic scheme only just opened again this year. It was shut for years and the government aren’t pushing it. Again who wants the extra paperwork I guess.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @fvp4 Sometimes people’s septic tanks overflow but it is getting better with regulation. I think I went on a bit of a rant as I work in a village where the sewrage flows straight into the sea but people were protesting as soon as a treatment plant was proposed. They’d prefer to have their kids swim in the sh*t than have the treatment plant. 🙄 As long they can flush the toilet and not think about people don’t seem to consider that waste needs to be treated. Anyway I don’t envy the council sometimes.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    No.

    vegans want it reduced to appease their emotional weakness to the fact that humans are omnivores, and always have been. As with other eating disorders they are controlling their intake as a result, however the absolute severity of their eating disorder causes them to only feel better when they are controlling what you eat too.

    Thankfully 80% recover from veganism within a year and go on to lead healthy normal lives. The rest are insufferable for life.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I was enjoying your posts until you came out with this nonsense showing your true colours. There's no getting around the fact that the world eats too much meat and it's damaging the environment.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Plus there’s maybe 40-50 location nationwide where the government intentionally pump raw untreated sewage into rivers or sea as no treatment capacity exists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I know, on top of the damage Ag is doing is disgraceful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    The fact of you enjoying or hating my posts is so far down in my thinking that it’s non existent.

    I’m not even interested in your opinion of what my “true colours” are, I’m just calling life as I see it, I’m presuming your vegan based on your reaction, please accept my condolences

    Youd best mute my posts, because they’re not changing any time soon.



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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @_Brian I agree completely. It’s not perfect but it’s not catastrophic.

    I know a fair bit like yourself. Absolutely the vast majority of farmers empty slurry tanks when they should. I have seen the cowboy element empty when they shouldn’t and streams full of slurry.

    Multi species swards are a good step forward and hopefully there will be more steps forward.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Ok well the disdain you hold for people because of their dietary choices can't be healthy, I suggest you let it go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    They've an ad running with the tagine " Binning is Sinning", Quasi- religious fundamentalists



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Fossil fuel extraction and consumption are the major damaging sectors.

    We don’t yet have a technology capable of replacing them.

    Taxing them excessively will just collapse government after government as voters aren’t prepared to tear down their society when no alternative exists.

    I often wonder will we see whistleblowers coming forward from within the petrochemical sectors as happened when big tobacco was taken into task for knowingly misleading people as to the health dangers of tobacco. I see Shell etc selling “carbon neutral” petrol, something that’s a physical impossibility, extracting, processing and burning petrol is a linear carbon exercise, no part of the system sequesters carbon, it cannot be carbon neutral.

    similarly the airline industry cannot be carbon neutral, it has no carbon sequestration associated.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    It’s like a doctor shooting a patient for having a sore toe. Yea it solves the problem but it’s madness.


    For sure some animal farming practices could definitely improve. But much of what is pushed as widespread is actually rare and often happens in other countries not ireland.

    humans evolved as omnivores and continue to be omnivores. The best dietary advice is eating as wide a variety of foods as is possible, it improves your intake and reduces the chances of eating anything to excess. It’s more enjoyable too.

    eat well, move on, leave others to choose how they eat.



  • Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You keep saying that. Why? Why do you blame Ireland for agricultural carbon emissions for food that is exported to China, but when it comes to China their emissions are also our fault. Why do you also ignore that China is a huge consumer market

    also what would be the point on reducing European levels - you are going to blame Europe for Chinese emissions anyway.


    unless we ban Chinese products - is that your demand?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,191 ✭✭✭RandomViewer


    If you go through the thread and look at his comments on the Chinese , Xenophobia to put it mildly



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Average Chinese person has lower carbon footprint than Irish citizens.

    the whole whataboutery pointing at third world countries is tiresome at best.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Well my point is that there's no point in pointing at China all the time when we do so much business with them.

    Do I want to ban Chinese products? Yes, a lot of them if I had my way. The so called free market has a lot to answer for. I think products shouldn't be allowed come onto the market here until they are approved by some kind of board that looks at sustainability. The amount of absolute rubbish we import is just depressing.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,807 ✭✭✭ShatterAlan



    You say can "we do anything?" and the answer is "no"

    Of course there is. The only ones polluting the planet are corporations. Stop buying their crap and their sales will quickly fall. That right there is a simple statement of intent. It takes 4 litres of water to make 1 litre of Coca Cola. Stop buying that crap. It's bad for you anyway. Spanish farmers can't give away oranges. You can probably buy a ton of Seville oranges for 50 quid. Drink orange juice. It's delicious, healthy and won't turn your kids into hyperactive blimps with acne and rotten teeth. The fossil fuel industry is a harder nut to crack. We all need or seem to need plastic in our lives. And I agree. It's hard to do without products that are convenient. I'm guilty of it myself. But just stop buying crappy products and find an alternative.

    There was a time when you would have been called a weirdo for quitting smoking. Simple, lame little habits that just become normal will save you money and accrued wiill save energy. Unplug the effing telly instead of just putting it on standby.

    Take all your potato skins, apple butts, banana peels, etc and find a place where there are trees and dump the lot in there. The forest will be howling with gratitude as all the mushrooms move in and take it all apart.

    Check out that great documentary Fantastic Fungi.


    You don't have to become a tree-hugger who drinks their own urine or dowses their arse with sawdust after crapping on the compost heap. Just stop buying crap and save money.

    And have more sex. It's better than watching Netflix.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    @ShatterAlan Good outlook ☺️💪



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,024 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Orange Juice is healthy? That's a big jump. It has vit C, potassium, etc.... but otherwise it has about as much sugar as coca cola.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Are we gone so far both in terms of GHGs and society being set in its ways, that the only hope is a “technical solution” to help draw down GHGs from the atmosphere.

    can’t see society as a whole allowing a tearing down of lifestyles as is being called for by many groups.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Yes people wont vote for anyone promising less, I am certain people would rather carry on as is until war for resources becomes inevitable. Unless some kind of benevolent Green dictatorships take power around the world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Scary thing is groups like ER would gladly force dictatorships on society.


    that in itself shows they are unworthy of any support.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    I don't really know how the planet can be saved without some really tough measures being brought in that the people wont like, and that just isn't possible under the current governance in western countries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    But surely you don’t actually beleive dictatorships is the way forward



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    That is the harsh reality. There is no magic bullet. Western societies have been built on the premise of ever increasing revenue, growth and markets. That is simply unsustainable (for a variety of reasons). Very crudely speaking, there's probably 2 ways to fix this.

    1 = A collective adjustment on demands and expectations to account for this (would be challenged by many as being the most hated of all C words (Communism))

    2 - Survival of the fittest, expect to see concern over natural resources leading to disparate experiences based on wealth and power and the likely conflict that would come as a consequence of that.

    Or maybe someone else can suggest a path from where we are that doesn't involve either of these 2 futures in a significant way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,725 ✭✭✭✭tom1ie


    id pretty much agree and say it’ll end up going down the second option route.

    unless we invent the replicator from Star Trek first.


    Earl grey- hot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    What do you mean by 'ridiculously long way'? Do you mean in terms of population growth, time, GDP?

    Some would argue that economic growth has been allowed to advance ridiculously uncontrolled to this point. The Amazon has decreased in size by 20% in the last 50 years.

    The rate at which we are consuming natural resources is already unsustainable. Part of the reason that the climate conversation is such an issue is that too many stakeholders consider anything which is likely to run out after their lifetime or professional interest as not being a concern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,617 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Humans don’t have tie tools to deal with this issue. Look at us here. Elected the Green Party into government and what have they done ?? Their leader was asleep in the Dail on a number of occasions, when he had a chance to speak at a critical time he mumbled on about growing lettuce on south facing windows. They are supporting an additional terminal to receive fracked gas, the dirtiest of fuels. They have been a disaster.

    next government likely be SF, completely untested in government and their financial proposals at election time are a sort of Harry Potter ish rambling.

    Imdividuals making changes is nice but essentially no addition to the overall problem. We need cohesive plans and there are no signs where they might come from.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    We need cohesive plans and there are no signs where they might come from.

    That is the point I have made repeatedly, but where are they likely to come from before it becomes a necessity rather than trying to optimise the resources the planet has presented to us.

    The last 18 months have shown us just how many people don't want to follow the science, it really makes be very skeptical that anything worth while will be done. But people line up to denigrate Greta for pointing this out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    If you were in a position to influence this, what steps would you introduce to do so?

    I'm not at all saying you are wrong, but am interested in the alternatives. We are dealing with a society where people won't give up their car when 50% of journeys are less than a couple of miles and there are buses, trains, bikes available. Do you really think we can get to a place where we tell one of the wealthiest companies on the planet that we don't want a new phone every September but maybe every 5 years.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    I'm an Australian.

    The comment was premised on the fact that the Chinese don't give a sh​it and neither does India. An Indian owned mining company (Adani) just got going in Qld and plans to export 10M tonnes of coal to India a year for the next 3 decades. As for China:

    "China's provinces still planning over 100 GW of new coal projects - Greenpeace"

    The make noises about becoming CO2 zero by 2050, but I expect to see flying pigs doing mach 2.2 before then.

    So if India and China are not joining the party, everyone else on the planet might as well find a comfy chair, put their feet up and light a cigar and blow smoke rings.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Or maybe Australia shouldn't be exporting coal to these places. And we shouldn't be buying Chinese goods. So countries that aren't India and China can do plenty to stop these countries producing so much Co2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Let's all just go back to neolithic living. After your fifth dead child in a row, you might start to have regrets. Anyone know how much Chinese made stuff is in a modern Hospital? I recently bought a vacuum cleaner made in Germany as I didn't want to buy Chinese. I recently bought a tool from a good German company. When it arrived, it became apparent it was made in China. What make and model of phone do you use, by the way?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Well you keep saying we shouldn't do anything because China, but you still want to buy cheap Chinese goods. I'm just making the point that it's a globalised world and a global problem. We're going back to Neolithic living anyway if we don't change the way we live pretty soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,110 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Are you real? I just pointed out I have been trying to not buy Chinese goods. It's got nothing to do with concerns over CO2, but it's exactly the same thing you have been calling for ad nauseam.

    We are not going back to the neolithic. You seem to be in the nut-job climate catastrophist camp, whose bleatings and chicken littleing are near comic.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,477 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    OK then we'll carry on with this capitalist consumer psycho behaviour as is and humanity will just be fine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,938 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    Yeah, yeah, sure we are, and you're in the , eternal sunlit uplands and opportunity on the horizon head in sand camp. Did you see the videos on Twitter from NY last night?

    If you had a kid, and every time they were thirsty, they poured a full glass of milk, took a mouthful and poured the rest down the sink, would you tell them to stop if you still had 6 more litres in the fridge, or would you wait until you were down to the last one?

    The rate we are using resources is not sustainable, aside from the associated damage harvesting and burning these resources is doing.



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