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Incoming E10 fuel. Dreams dashed.

  • 27-08-2021 3:45pm
    Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭

    So like many of you I was hoping for when E10 arrived we would see the return of 98RON at the pumps via the back door of a mix of ethonol and fuel. Well this report puts cold water on that.

    looks like 95.7RON with average of 96.2 RON.

    currenlty on Bosnia & Herzegovina and they have 98 RON everywhere - even 100 at some stations.

    when can this farce end for us.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,041 ✭✭✭Miscreant

    Most people don't care about the RON value of their fuel and the majority of cars here will happily run on 93 to 95 from the factory by default with no ill effects.

    In my experience, the only drivers concerned with getting 98RON or higher are those with higher performance cars or cars that have been mapped to take advantage of the higher RON value fuels. I have friends who drive tuned JDM cars like 200sx, Integras and Supras who mention this quite often but outside of that cohort, there is never a peep about the RON value of petrol.

    There are fuel additives that can be bought to increase the RON value of the fuel if this is really desired in any case.

  • Registered Users Posts: 42,759 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989

    Was the there not 102 Ron at some stations in the Uk a few years ago

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon

    You can get high octane fuel in UK and other countries. We had it for a while but the market was so small they just discontinued it here.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Well def not 93 anyway. 93 isn't sold in Ireland but I get your point. My car requires 98RON, it's turbo and can run safely put not under much load on 95RON.

    So 93 would kill the engine.

    Makes sense regarding the JDM type cars as they run 98,100 over there. I am surprised there isn't any talk about Ron in that circle of friends, seems odd considering the considerable upsides to 98 on those type of cars.Unless they are very young, (25under) they wouldn't have enjoyed the time we had 99RON with Maxol for a few glorious years.

    Those fuel additives are trash, the only real substitute is getting someone in the north to buy some Aviation fuel and bring it down and mix it yourself lol.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Yeah I was up north last month and running 3 tanks of Shell power 98 the difference was very noticeable. No hesitation, and the engine just sounded like it was happier.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 140 ✭✭Dhenalau

    The E10 petrol seem to be a very bad deal for the consumer...

     E10 is less efficient than the current E5 blend of fuel, with the problem exacerbated in smaller-engined cars.

    “And those with E10 compatible cars will unfortunately find they are getting fewer miles to the gallon as the fuel is less efficient than E5 fuel, due to it containing 5% more ethanol.

    Drivers of older, incompatible cars may have to shell out for more expensive fuel, since forecourts will likely only offer E5 as a premium option.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Yeah this is a yes and a no at the same time.

    it comes down to the KJ in the fuel. If you have a high boost car that runs optimal on 98RON 100% fuel then you have your winner.

    However in order of preference it still looks like this

    98RON 100% fuel

    98RON 5% Ethanol

    98RON 10% Ethanol

    95RON 100% fuel

    95RON 5% ethanol

    The main reason being is a engine is less efficient anyway at 95RON then the 98RON so any losses on fuel consumption by going to a 10% blend is offset by the gains on going to the happier place - 98RON. in theory you are loosing out at 95RON anyway so might as well have a happier engine and still have roughly the same loss.

    Years ago when Maxol had their 99.2RON blend(although it averaged 97) the difference in some of the Toyota Glanza, and Nissan pulsars we had were insane. Not just overall peak HP, but fuel consumption. Sure these cars could have been mapped to 95RON but they lost 15% or so power. So even with MAXOL E5 ethanol blend, which has losses - the cars were still happier.

  • Registered Users Posts: 5,539 ✭✭✭Leonard Hofstadter

    When is E10 coming to Ireland? I didn't know there was a planned start date for it here?

    They need to keep E5 as many older cars (especially classics) cannot run on E10 for a sustained period of time - ethanol wears out the fuel lines and other rubber bits quicker. But the vast majority of cars should be able to handle it, but as noted above, fuel consumption will be marginally worse (maybe 3-4% more) but since the CO2 content will be 4% lower, the carbon tax should be less, which should make it a little cheaper.

  • Registered Users Posts: 79,028 ✭✭✭✭Atlantic Dawn

    UK Gov have a site to check compatibility with E10

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Does anyone have any inside knowledge now that E10 starts in April? Will we have a choice of E5 in some stations for a while, or a higher octane rated fuel E5?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon

    E10 would actually be higher octane rated. People who have custom tuned turbo cars in America run E85 to make more power but it uses up more fuel than premium or regular as they call them.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon

    Just to add to the above comment. I posted a video a few months ago of a car guy in Australia who makes YouTube videos and he got his sons car tuned to run on E10 and it made more power on E10 than on more expensive premium fuel as they sell both in Aus.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Unfortunately the precedent for that is not kind. Once the rollout of E5 came about back in 2009 or so, the original 95.5 pure unleaded became 93.5 ocatane with 5% ethanol bringing it back to 95.5.

    So my fear is we will have the same scenarios, approx 92 octane but 10% ethanol brings it back to the minimum 95.5

    This is why Maxol was averaging 99.2RON as they used 95.5RON with 5% Ethanol.

    My figures are off the back of my hand so might be out slightly.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd

    If there was a demand, and people prepared to pay for it, there'd be the supply of it.

    In Germany Aral (BP group) has 102 octane everywhere (and 2400 petrol stations so literally everywhere), Shell has 100, Total and Jet 98 Octane . Its all a premium product but obviously they have enough people prepared to pay for it, whether its for performance or for vintage motors.

    Maybe the issue in Ireland is also that the greens made diesels so popular with the motor tax cuts that for a while even regular petrol was becoming a niche market, so for petrol stations wasting pumps and tanks on special versions of petrol would have been madness. In other countries where premium petrol is available, there was never such a massive push by their governments to have everyone driving diesels, and petrols were far more popular in the past 10/ 15 years than in Ireland.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    This is why I am living in hope that they combine both.

    E10 regular

    E5 97,98 octane Premium, Plus

    I am sure some garages will keep E5 in for a while.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon

    I doubt it all fuel is the same that comes into the country. Also as the post above yours said they will not install a second pump and tank just so people can have E5 especially when they will not do it for premium fuel.

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,238 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    With the amount of new and imported high performance cars evident around the place, especially in Dublin, it would be well worth somebody's time retailing 98 or 100 RON at a couple of sites.

    You can see literally dozens of AMGs, M Cars, Porkers, Astons and classic V8s and V12s on any spin around the City. And its great that people are bent on keeping wonderful hand-built petrol engines on the road for a long time.

    If I was this guy, I wouldn't be putting any old shyte in the tank.

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,309 ✭✭✭✭wotzgoingon

    You can buy high octane race fuel if you were really worried but it costs way more than standard petrol. You can also buy boosters but you have to be careful as there are some boosters that are snake oil as in do nothing.

  • Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭ordinaryfella

    There will be a public consultation, I'm sure their minds are made up but voicing these fair criticisms cannot hurt.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,206 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck

    No doubt a rain forests is being burnt down to grow sugarcane, so the greens can feel all smug inside.

    ☦️ Free Byzantium

  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 47,443 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder

    any 'green' i know is wise to this charade.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    This is what gives me hope

    Quote: This measure will also align the current petrol supply used in Ireland to that of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

    Well that supply is a mix of E10 and E5 (higher octane). But again, probably terminology is being lost. I am guessing Octane is added in the port?

  • Registered Users Posts: 23,238 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34

    Better than being stuck on the quays in anything else.

    I was in Cork on Monday and a green Holden Maloo 6.2 V8 departed a traffic light up onto the N40 and it was a most glorious sound.

  • Registered Users Posts: 18,628 ✭✭✭✭Del2005

    We lost 98 RON long before diesel was pushed hard.

    Last year walking into a pub there was a lovely Porsche parked outside, it was parked with it's bald nearly to the wire tyres on show. For the amount of people who buy those types of car who are actually into driving vs people wanting to look good 95 RON is perfectly fine.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭flexcon

    Not really, I mean Maxol's E5 had 99.2RON up until tail of of 2014

    I even remember back in 2009-2012 many Jap car owners who switched to the the higher RON noticed much improved power, response and efficiency. Even regular Saab 93 will gain 4mpg by using 97RON.

    Anyway, as pointed out if there was demand - they would.

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,949 ✭✭✭mikeecho