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Incoming E10 fuel. Dreams dashed.

flexcon

So like many of you I was hoping for when E10 arrived we would see the return of 98RON at the pumps via the back door of a mix of ethonol and fuel. Well this report puts cold water on that.

looks like 95.7RON with average of 96.2 RON.

currenlty on Bosnia & Herzegovina and they have 98 RON everywhere - even 100 at some stations.

when can this farce end for us.

http://www.eerl.com/Uploads/E10-Final-Report.pdf

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Pops_20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306345#Comment_120306345

I haven't received any response from either yet, and it's been about 10 days.

Some articles in Irish Newspapers were saying how in the UK they have retained premium fuel as E5 but the demand is low, and based on that they think there will be zero demand in Ireland. Also the fact that a separate tank would be required.

However many stations already have two pumps, for example Circle K have Miles and Miles Plus. I assume there is a separate tank for Miles Plus. Could they not change Miles to E10, and keep MilesPlus at E5? I rarely see anyone opting for MilesPlus anyway, so it would make sense for them to offer an E5 option there.

keithb93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120301515#Comment_120301515

I saw that same car in west cork recently, I couldn’t figure out what it was until now

ThreeGreens

"Those fuel additives are trash, the only real substitute is getting someone in the north to buy some Aviation fuel and bring it down and mix it yourself lol."

Why in north? There is no difference between Avgas sold in the UK an the ROI.

If using avgas, be conscious that it contains lead. So if your car has a Cat convertor, it will destroy it.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324939#Comment_120324939

Looks like no price difference for when e10 comes in.

tjhook

I'm really not following the technical details in this thread -

What I do think I understand is that the new e10 fuel provides fewer KM per litre, and perhaps slightly less power. I'm fine with that once there's an equivalent reduction in price. But I'm pretty confident there won't be. We'll be told E10 is equally expensive (or even more so) to produce, or there'll be a coincidental increase in taxation around the same time it is introduced.

Measures like this turn people against what would otherwise be perfectly sensible environmental changes.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324122#Comment_120324122

Please double check my math, I feel like I might be gaslighting myself.

Still cannot wrap my head around Japan having 89RON sold in petrol stations.

In the US the pumps display PON(Pump Octane Number (PON))

So if a fuel in Japan is 89RON, that is equivalent to 81MON(Motor Octane Number) which means the PON is 85.

Yet minimum spec In us is 87PON.

that's insanely low. I guess my next bit of research is to check Toyota engines from some pickup trucks sold in Japan from 90 through to 2002 and see what the advised RON is.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120324001#Comment_120324001

That's what I'm saying, they don't have 95

They have 89/90 ron, which is like the American 87aki/pon

And those jap specs were last set in 2002.

Yes they 98+

But as I've said, I don't think everyone there is using super plus

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120322736#Comment_120322736

EDIT - Something aint right somewhere. No way you could run 89RON and not have excessive knock on most engines. I get the the US values but not the Japanese values you quoted.

Lowest I ever seen in Japan is 95. I'll be back, my brain is running wild

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321364#Comment_120321364

Yes, but what I'm getting at is they don't have 95.

They only have regular 90 ron and super 96+ron.( Usually 98-100)

In Ireland we have premium 95.

I highly doubt everyone in Japan is running super.

There are 3 grades of fuel, regular (90 to 92ron), premium (95) and super (97+)

Europe, well the eu doesn't sell regular.

95 isn't a bad fuel, it's better than what a lot of the world uses.

I know my Ron Mon pon & aki's

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120321297#Comment_120321297

But they do have high octane fuel as well as the cheaper stuff. We don't all we have is e5 and soon to be e10 and used to be 95.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120319795#Comment_120319795

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.spglobal.com/platts/PlattsContent/_assets/_files/en/our-methodology/methodology-specifications/japan-domestic-oil-products-methodology.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjD4_mezMf9AhVykFwKHU6_DkwQFnoECC4QAQ&usg=AOvVaw0JFvq1CbC7PXOAI6VkW2Pr

Screenshot_2023-03-06-15-16-37-12_f541918c7893c52dbd1ee5d319333948.jpg

click on the link, and it will bring you to a pdf with Japan's fuel info

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120314272#Comment_120314272

As someone who has a brother currently in Japan, that is not so. I am not sure where you got those figures from but they might be US PON which further confuses the issue. So using US measurements min96ron is just shy of 102RON

98RON in Ireland is 93RON(PON) in US.

But to counter back, 100 and 102 octane is everywhere in Japan. Nearly all turbo, and high revving Jap cars desire 100. With ECU changing the engine timing they can run on as low as 95 to prevent knock, but no less.

So the operating range of a typical 4AGE Toyota engine is 95-102 with 98-100 optimum

mikeecho

Why do people think that Japan has super duper petrol.

They have regular min 89ron, and hi octo, min96 ron

In Ireland we have premium, min 95 ron

Most petrol in Japan is 90ish ron with 1.8% ethanol.

They are not all driving around with 100ron.

mikeecho

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120306345#Comment_120306345

Apparently if your engine code ends with 'SE' , then e10 is a no no.

https://andrewsjapanesecars.com/imported-toyota-use-e10-fuel/

Pops_20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120290414#Comment_120290414

I emailed both Circle K and Maxol a few days ago about this, as I have two 90s Japanese cars and I'm concerned about using E10.

Not holding my breath for a reply but will post up if I receive any information.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120304089#Comment_120304089

Not really, I mean Maxol's E5 had 99.2RON up until tail of of 2014

I even remember back in 2009-2012 many Jap car owners who switched to the the higher RON noticed much improved power, response and efficiency. Even regular Saab 93 will gain 4mpg by using 97RON.

Anyway, as pointed out if there was demand - they would.

Del2005

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298028#Comment_120298028

We lost 98 RON long before diesel was pushed hard.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296506#Comment_120296506

Last year walking into a pub there was a lovely Porsche parked outside, it was parked with it's bald nearly to the wire tyres on show. For the amount of people who buy those types of car who are actually into driving vs people wanting to look good 95 RON is perfectly fine.

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120299661#Comment_120299661

Better than being stuck on the quays in anything else.

I was in Cork on Monday and a green Holden Maloo 6.2 V8 departed a traffic light up onto the N40 and it was a most glorious sound.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120297383#Comment_120297383

This is what gives me hope

Quote: This measure will also align the current petrol supply used in Ireland to that of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Well that supply is a mix of E10 and E5 (higher octane). But again, probably terminology is being lost. I am guessing Octane is added in the port?

magicbastarder

any 'green' i know is wise to this charade.

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298245#Comment_120298245

No doubt a rain forests is being burnt down to grow sugarcane, so the greens can feel all smug inside.

magicbastarder

it's so heartening to see a growling V12 stuck in traffic on the quays.

Sexual Chocolate

" You can see literally dozens of AMGs, M Cars, Porkers, Astons and classic V8s and V12s on any spin around the City. And its great that people are bent on keeping wonderful hand-built petrol engines on the road for a long time "

magicbastarder

'better for the environment' - where is the ethanol coming from?

ordinaryfella

There will be a public consultation, I'm sure their minds are made up but voicing these fair criticisms cannot hurt.

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120298028#Comment_120298028

You can buy high octane race fuel if you were really worried but it costs way more than standard petrol. You can also buy boosters but you have to be careful as there are some boosters that are snake oil as in do nothing.

Larbre34

With the amount of new and imported high performance cars evident around the place, especially in Dublin, it would be well worth somebody's time retailing 98 or 100 RON at a couple of sites.

You can see literally dozens of AMGs, M Cars, Porkers, Astons and classic V8s and V12s on any spin around the City. And its great that people are bent on keeping wonderful hand-built petrol engines on the road for a long time.

If I was this guy, I wouldn't be putting any old shyte in the tank.

wotzgoingon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296765#Comment_120296765

I doubt it all fuel is the same that comes into the country. Also as the post above yours said they will not install a second pump and tank just so people can have E5 especially when they will not do it for premium fuel.

flexcon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120296506#Comment_120296506

This is why I am living in hope that they combine both.

E10 regular

E5 97,98 octane Premium, Plus

I am sure some garages will keep E5 in for a while.

munchkin_utd

If there was a demand, and people prepared to pay for it, there'd be the supply of it.

In Germany Aral (BP group) has 102 octane everywhere (and 2400 petrol stations so literally everywhere), Shell has 100, Total and Jet 98 Octane . Its all a premium product but obviously they have enough people prepared to pay for it, whether its for performance or for vintage motors.

Maybe the issue in Ireland is also that the greens made diesels so popular with the motor tax cuts that for a while even regular petrol was becoming a niche market, so for petrol stations wasting pumps and tanks on special versions of petrol would have been madness. In other countries where premium petrol is available, there was never such a massive push by their governments to have everyone driving diesels, and petrols were far more popular in the past 10/ 15 years than in Ireland.