Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 03:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710910#Comment_117710910

I've seen this trope as well. They always say that when they don't get the result they want in a consultation.

I don't really know the mechanics of a consultation though.

05-08-2021 03:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710094#Comment_117710094

You cant make a right turn across a junction with cars coming from four different directions.

And you generally dont make right turns to cycle against traffic flow, much better to stay on the side of the road you are on and cycle with the traffic.

As I have done for over twenty years until someone decided reducing a road by a third and putting a cycling lane in thats unused for most of the day was a good idea.

You possibly have to get off your bike and go through two pedestrians crossings to get to the cycle lane, I have no intention of doing this so I will ignore motorists beeping and shouting at me about cycling lanes, I didnt ask for them and they are of no benefit to me.

I feel sorry for disabled people including blind people who have to cross that ugly looking chess box thing on Carysfort Avenue to board their bus, they have to contend with speeding cyclists while getting on and off the bus, its all about cyclists though no one else matters.

And as for those ridiculous plans to strangle the traffic at Stillorgan park, we already have cycling lanes on both sides of the road and the one from Stillorgan village has been a disgrace for years, its actually shared with pedestrians, you get good at jumpimg out of the way. Its now proposed to make serious changes here including blocking off filter lanes to housing estates and removing the left lane filter at the N11. Its insanity and meanwhile cyclists are cycling over dangerous tree roots and uneven paths for years now on this route.

There doesnt seem to be any accountability at all or any method to the madness.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 03:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710972#Comment_117710972

Actually, now I look into it, there's a trope of the trope, where the Dublin Cycling Campaign is lobbying extensively outside the state for people to make submissions.

05-08-2021 03:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710568#Comment_117710568

If you are talking about the Carysfort avenue cycling lane I find it much worse,cycled it for years without incident and now its a pain in the ass.

Literally running a gautlet of abuse for refusing to cross a major road to get into it.

Is this a permanent temporary sort of measure does anyone know, it went in without any consultation with local residents.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 03:55PM

I'm not sure our time is best spent trawling through the minutiae of your dislikes of infrastructure in your area, especially as no-one so far with knowledge of the area seems to share your misgivings, and people here are very quick to find fault with infrastructure.

05-08-2021 03:58PM

Thats ok, I dont like your posts either.

You refuse to acknowledge anyone elses point of view particularly residents who will be badly impacted if you get what you want.

Your answer is to buy a cargo bike because you save thousands of euros using yours.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:13PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711019#Comment_117711019

I actually haven't muted you, unlike a few others, because I think you're not misrepresenting the extent of your background knowledge, or, mostly, indulging in ad-hominems. I didn't tell you to buy a cargo bike. I made a suggestion for you to take advantage of the fact that you can walk more quickly to the shops than drive, and it didn't involve cargo bikes.

05-08-2021 04:18PM

I walked to the shops today as someone took my car.

I got absolutely soaked and my shoulders were hanging off with the shopping.

I had to help an elderly person lift her shopping into her carboot.

I should have told her she shouldnt be driving, a cargo bike would be better for the environment.

Do you always mute the opinions of people you dont agree with, this isnt actually very healthy, it just becomes group think and then you cant understand why you wont always get your way.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:19PM

I wouldn't go so far as saying I wanted the Strand Road build either. At least, I'm not heavily invested in it. I don't use that route, and I've said that a few times before. I'm most responding to more general points about infrastructure in South Dublin, which is what the thread is about.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711132#Comment_117711132

I'm sorry I told you to go walking in heavy rain.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:22PM

I've never muted anyone on boards before, but this thread is interminable, and I got fed up with lengthy posts making exactly the same points repeatedly, with ad-hominems in them, and unlikely theories about the trajectory of the coalition and Brexit.

I was going to just stop following, but there are some interesting points in it still.

magicbastarder · 05-08-2021 04:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711154#Comment_117711154

off to the walking forum with you if you're up to those sort of shenanigans.

AndrewJRenko · 05-08-2021 04:34PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711132#Comment_117711132

Have you considered getting a raincoat? A tonne or two of metal isn't really a good raincoat.

Maybe a shopping trolley or a backpack too.

AndrewJRenko · 05-08-2021 04:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117710976#Comment_117710976

"You cant make a right turn across a junction with cars coming from four different directions."

That's why they have traffic lights there, to hold traffic from two of the four directions as you cross. If you can make a right turn, you can make that turn. It sounds like you're refusing on principle and trying to stir up dissent.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:39PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711089#Comment_117711089

"Someone even said motorists pay more taxes. Could point to the CSO figures that show that cycling commuters have a higher median income than those who commute by car, so you could probably flip the tax argument too if you really wanted to"

You can invert the argument and keep attacking anyway, as Mannix does, talking about how cyclists are all middle class.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711237#Comment_117711237

Yeah, that was mentioned, but in the retelling it became me telling him to get a cargo bike.

magicbastarder · 05-08-2021 04:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711237#Comment_117711237

christ yeah, humanity has failed if the only way of getting your shopping home is in a vehicle which weighs 100 times as much as your shopping does.

Peregrine · 05-08-2021 04:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711161#Comment_117711161

Try it out. There are enough things to be discussed without getting dragged back into the same arguments from last year.

Macy0161 · 05-08-2021 04:44PM

I've no skin in the game for Strand Road either, but I really don't get the logic of "locals only" having a say in these projects/ consultations. I have made a number of submissions on routes I could or have taken regarding changes. That's perfectly within my rights, despite living 10+km away. Depending on where I may start (either home/ or part drive and then cycle), I would use the N11/ Deansgrange/ Rock Road/ Clonskeagh. The infrastructure (or lack of) will impact my choices, so there is no reason I shouldn't submit and be listened too regardless of my eircode.

fwiw pre-covid I was predominantly a single occupancy car commuter. Reducing space for private cars would impact me if/ when back in the office. But it would also change the time equation on comparing modes available. Car being less attractive, does and will push me towards the bike or public transport. And that is 100% right, despite me being personally discommoded.

magicbastarder · 05-08-2021 04:46PM

speaking of the locals having a say, i am curious about what the breakdown might have been between the locals agin it (possibly because they'd have to drive a bit further than previously, possibly because they realised they would potentially lose on street parking) versus those for it, because they're sick (literally and figuratively, maybe) of traffic sitting at a standstill outside their house for a couple of hours a day.

05-08-2021 04:46PM

I believed the local councillor.

I dont know any local who is in favour of what was proposed for Avoca Avenue or who is in favour of the proposed changes in Stillorgan Park or in Deansgrange.

Most of the locals have no clue as to the plans and opposition is organised through parents whatsapp and local resident association groups.

For much of 2020 and 2021 people were urged to treat each other like pariahs and there were few opportunities to meet up, remember those you can walk with one non family member but dont sit on a bench.

its great now that we know up to two hundred people can now meet up outdoors, this will give residents a chance to organise opposition and protests etc, this will give a true flavour of the mood, much better than accepting that thousands approoved the changes in online consultations.

The councillor told me people could make multiple submissions too so you could have a well organised lobby group making hundrds of anonymous submissions.

Larbre34 · 05-08-2021 04:47PM

I haven't time to go back over 50 odd posts to see why Carysfort Avenue is being discussed, but in my opinion it's excellent and a design I think would work across the city on many main routes.

It provides the high quality cycleway, yet it maintains two-way vehicle traffic while narrowing the lanes to calm the traffic without needing ramps or speed tables. The only discommoded category is extraneous parking. Aspects like the conflict points of bus stops and crossing points can be addressed with an increase in education and rise in critical mass - it will become the norm for all users to be more aware and to use appropriate caution.

Just like Clontarf Road, there are solutions which can be win-win-win, with the right consistency of standards, investment and planning and without resorting to adversarial, provocative and divisive strategies.

AndrewJRenko · 05-08-2021 04:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117708023#Comment_117708023

What was the Twitter account that used to bang on about 'BigCycling'? I could never work out if they were box-of-frogs crazy or just a very clever parody.

magicbastarder · 05-08-2021 04:50PM

also, on the locals having a say, another interesting example, but not from the southside; the provision of an improved bus service for an area of tens of thousands (possibly 100k, i dunno) people might be affected by owners of these couple of dozen houses and whether the front gardens will be reduced to make way for a bus corridor.

yes, the locals should be allowed have a say, but should the needs and wants of a few dozen homeowners trump the needs and wants of thousands of people? it's the narrow section of the malahide road between fairview and the junction with griffith avenue.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.3659857,-6.2288165,3a,75y,0.45h,88.74t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sfEDMKrpnaHnGRwh1DolAYw!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3DfEDMKrpnaHnGRwh1DolAYw%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D48.043186%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711326#Comment_117711326

Road Sofa Agency?

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711311#Comment_117711311

Well, the GoFundMe in Sandymount that raised €18k was full of anonymous donations. I'm sure one can claim because they feared reprisals from the well-armed cycling lobby.

https://twitter.com/IrishCycle/status/1360695601013358597

AndrewJRenko · 05-08-2021 04:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711349#Comment_117711349

What's the tax status of money collected like this? Who does the money actually go to?

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 04:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117711364#Comment_117711364

Dunno. I assume it's ok. Don't recall any effective pushback on it. Though I think you're not allowed to fund legal cases this way in Ireland. But the legal case wasn't funded by that GoFundMe.

05-08-2021 05:01PM

Its not excellent Larbre if you are cycling from the village and want to continue to the housing estates at the top of Carysfort Avenue.

You have to cross at the Convent Avenue junction to get into the cycle lane and then cross back again if you want to access the estates along the route.

You cant turn right if you are coming from Newtown Ave direction as you are stuck inside the kerb of the cycling lane.

If you come out of Avondale Lawn and want to get to Proby Square you have to cross at this junction and then cross back again one minute later.

its not possible now for inexperienced cyclists to cycle with the traffic on the road due to abuse from drivers.

Furthermore the cycling lane goes nowhere once you get to Convent Road, the cars are in the centre of the road to make room for the cycle lane and once lights go green they are funnelled in on top of the cyclists going straight. Prior to this lane going in you could get in front of the cars and make them give you room.

Its also very difficult and dangerous now for residents to get out of their driveways or to reverse in.

You cant do three point turns anymore so to get to Stillorgan etc you need to go via Convent Road. If Avoca Avenue was closed to through traffic as planned then locals wouldnt have been able to use this route to get to Stillorgan Mount Merrion Avenue etc, they would have turned at Avoca Place and got to Merrion Avenue via Green road and Waltham Terrace, both narrow roads that children cycle to school on.

The traffic hasnt been calmed at all, its actually worse as the parked cars forced motorists to slow down.

tomasrojo · 05-08-2021 05:07PM

"The traffic hasnt been calmed at all, its actually worse as the parked cars forced motorists to slow down"

Forcing motorists to slow down is traffic calming though. At least, one aspect of it.

Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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