The Dominance of Dublin GAA *Mod warning post#1*

The improvements in Dublin hurling has been well documented and in fact, they are more extraordinary than in Dublin football. The Dublin senior hurlers were minnows who got regular beatings and were losing to Laois and Westmeath prior to funding. Through the funding which led to a huge number of new players coming through at underage, Dublin went on to win a provincial title, a national league and become serious contenders at the top table. That is a dramatic improvement, it would be like Wicklow winning a Leinster football championship and competing seriously for the All Ireland football championship. Even this year, Dublin beat Galway in the Leinster championship and got to the last 6 in the championship.

I mentioned underage hurling above, a huge number of titles post funding, Dublin barely won any prior to it. We also have club hurling where standards also improved beyond recognition, 2 All Ireland titles in recent years. So opposite to your claim that the Dublin hurling doesn't get much mention, it has got plenty of discussion and your attempt to claim it hasn't improved with the onset of funding has been obliterated multiple times over.

It also has been pointed out that the GAA bankrolling Dublin was in part a business decision. An improved Dublin would bring in additional income. That's why the Dublin footballers played every game at home in Croke Park for 10 years and why they tried to make it the home of the Dublin hurlers as well but Dublin fans wouldn't attend. How Kildare and Meath or any other county performed is 100% irrelevant to this discussion. Only one county were granted millions of euros to implement a plan drawn up by the GAA to develop talent and that was Dublin. The huge number of professional coaches led to improved results across the board, well over 100 titles have been won by Dublin GAA post funding. This is an obvious result of a multi million euro fund but even if it didn't result in a large number of championships going to Dublin it would be wrong. The governing body of a sport should not be financing one county to the cost of all others.

❔ Is there meant to be a point here? Dublin have lost games in ladies football, men's football, underage hurling and football, club hurling and football but that doesn't change the simple fact that there has been an extodinary upturn in results across all codes and grades within Dublin GAA post funding. It just shows what millions of euro and a huge number of professional coaches can do.

[QUOTE]The Dublin senior hurlers were minnows who got regular beatings and were losing to Laois and Westmeath prior to funding[/QUOTE]

if they were minnows then surely they're still minnows now, they're still losing to counties like laois.

What has happened Dublin senior hurling since 2011 and 2013?

Have the improvements being 'well documented' in Dublin hurling? That seems like very generalised vague statement.As it is clear Dublin have only achieved one League title in 2011 against a weakened KK team minus the James Stephen's lads Henry et al. I remember I was at it.

Also one Leinster title in 2013 against a Galway team that did not look interested. I remember because I was at it. That is pushing a decade ago now. Also Dublin were comfortably beaten in the end (after Dwyer was sent off) by Cork in the AI Hurling SF that year and have not looked like of having a notion of reaching that stage since.

Dublin lost to Antrim (Under Dalo) in the following years I seem to remember and very recently were beaten by Laois.

Numbers wise and funding argument wise Dublin should have kicked on since then, it is clear they have not. All these 'professional' coaches must not be very good in the last guts of a decade. When the foreign 'imports' went and Dalo left Dublin hurling have never recovered since.

Since then Dublin Senior hurling has clearly regressed it is beyond doubt. To say otherwise is delusional. Added to the the fact that the sport of hurling is not all that competitive there very few high standard competitive teams in hurling. Puts the sole funding argument on even shakier ground. It is mainly Munster based plus KK and Galway. Which is way less of competitive level than football would be in comparison.

The funding argument has a clear flaw imo when it comes to Dublin senior hurling it should be far easier to dominate a smaller competitive intercounty scene like hurling if the funding/resources argument holds true. It is a major, major flaw in the funding as the sole reason for Dublin's success argument. Dublin even got relegated in the NHL div 1 recently! Shouldn't the effects of funding a have kicked in the intervening decade?

Where are Dublin's wristy hurlers?

You will note that many on the hurling threads from other counties question why Dublin do not produce 'wristy hurlers'. At the moment Dublin do not have a real natural forward and for hurling have to resort to playing Chris Crummy A hardworking, fast, honest wingback as forward. Wouldn't all these 'professional coaches' make 'wristy hurlers' with all that money and the whole competitive dynamic of hurling as we know it would be changed?

You seem to revel in broad generalisations rather than looking at the facts on the ground. Which leads me to believe you have an agenda within an intrangenient narrative.

Your generalised distant 'funding hypothesis' excludes all other issues, and variables - because it does not suit your narrative.

In my view you only seem focused on one issue to the neglect of all others. No mention of how poor other counties such as Kildare and Meath football have become for a decade - super 8's record and the backdoor record. Also those former strong traditional counties (kildare/Meath) losing to to Wicklow Westmeath and struggling v Longford etc. No focus on how they went from a position of strength to one of neglect.

No mention of the problems with the championship structures in football etc which is another contributory factor. I feel Dublin are being made an an easy scapegoat to hide from those real issues. And historical and self inflicted problems that have nothing to do with Dublin GAA.

And you make generalisation about Dublin hurling without looking at actual senior hurling results. Which clearly make a lie of your narrative. Simply because it is an anathema to your Dublin football argument. I am starting to wonder whether you regularly attend GAA matches and actually have a clear view what is going on the ground. Your viewpoint seems 'distant', and written in an almost abstract tone. Almost as if you are writing about the GAA as something you are viewing from afar.

It is highly embarrassing for Dublin GAA, I agree with you. With the millions spend on coaching and development, along with the millions spent on team preparations, Dublin hurlers should be doing far better. There's no doubt about that, in fact every competition a Dublin GAA representative enters they are competing with a huge advantage. They have won well over 100 titles post funding but the truth is that they should be winning far more given their financial advantages.

The facts are though, the money has had an incredible influence on Dublin hurling. From their first ever Leinster title with their own players, their first ever National league title, from minnows to serious contenders, first ever club All Ireland, huge success and underage level etc etc. This kind of outlandish improvements have been replicated across the board. The Dublin ladies footballers never won an All Ireland pre funding, they've now won 5. Dublin u20/21 footballers never won an All Ireland pre funding, they've now won 5. Dublin club football teams have won 11 Leinster and 4 All Ireland club titles post funding. It just goes on and on. An incredible level of funding has led to an incredible upturn of results. But as you say, the only surprise is that Dublin GAA teams haven't won more.

I for one am thankful of this Dublin football era because it has brought football on leaps and bounds. Away from what could have been a turgid future with defensive style football. Now teams have moved beyond that. And we have seen how keepers like Beggan and Morgan have moved on the keeper position from even what Cluxton did.

Without Dublin men like Jim Gavin, Stephen Cluxton et all Football would be in the dark ages. Dublin football has even brought on Mayo GAA and Kerry GAA. You can see it tactically they copy what Dublin have done.

If there was no Dublin Gaelic Football as it was teams would still be playing with 14 men behind the ball - copying Mr McGuinness. Who in fairness in his own way forced Dublin and Jim Gavin to move on tactically. In a way Dublin would not have won the 6 in row only for Jim Guinness in 2014. It is less to do with funding but more to do with players and managers who are willing to adapt and think outside of the box.

You can see it here in AI Final 2019 when Dublin were a man down:

You can't buy tactical genius management like that and intelligent football brains. Plus bravery in doing so.

Cluxton played as the 14th man outfield when Dublin were a man down, and Rock picked up the Kerry keeper. Cool heads, sharp minds.

Of course they know and it hurts them. Knowing the titles they've won have been bought takes the glory away from them. But it has to be said it's not all Dublin supporters. Many admit to their unfair advantages and don't think what happened was right at all. Winning titles in this way is wrong and there will always be an asterisk beside them.

As you were pointing out, it's embarrassing that Dublin hurlers have not won more but that doesn't mean they haven't made an astonishing improvement. It's the same in other competitions, Dublin are essentially entering with a headstart. They really should be winning more titles than they have been. Especially when you look at the spending now. Dublin GAA spend close to 4 million on player development alone. They spend millions more on wages and salaries and team preparation. It is an incredible level of spending, they have professional systems in place in amateur games. This explains the huge number of titles across the board.

And as you mentioned land, Dublin GAA spent 9 million on Spawell and more on Hollystown golf club. They are going to setup two centers of excellence to go with the already fantastic facilities they have available. It seems like the Dublin County board on concentrating their efforts on the elite level of Gaelic Games and not focusing on promoting our games in more disadvantaged areas which is a real pity. It's one of the main reasons why splitting Dublin really has to happen. A more focused effort at a local level will be far more beneficial for participation levels in our capital.

"astonishing improvements."

as I said, they were beaten by laois in 2019. :)

if other counties have suitable stadia as regards capacity to facilitate both home supporters and a suitable number of traveling Dublin supporters then Dublin play more away games....

Pairc Tailteann in Meath.. 11,000 capacity. Are you seriously suggesting that this venue should host say a Leinster Semi Final ?

A stadium is a venue to facilitate the watching of sports... if there is and are massive disparities in available and suitable capacity’s that simply isn’t Dublin fault... it’s also not the fault of the GAA fan...

The Dublin senior footballers played every single game in their home stadium between 2006 and 2016. They've only played 2 away games since then and a few neutral games. Dublin have only brought attendances of 10,000 or less to any of these games. So your point is nonsense, as is claiming that playing every game at home isn't a huge advantage.

"The improvements in Dublin hurling has been well documented and in fact, they are more extraordinary than in Dublin football. The Dublin senior hurlers were minnows who got regular beatings and were losing to Laois and Westmeath prior to funding. Through the funding which led to a huge number of new players coming through at underage, Dublin went on to win a provincial title, a national league and become serious contenders at the top table. That is a dramatic improvement, it would be like Wicklow winning a Leinster football championship and competing seriously for the All Ireland football championship. Even this year, Dublin beat Galway in the Leinster championship and got to the last 6 in the championship.

I mentioned underage hurling above, a huge number of titles post funding, Dublin barely won any prior to it. We also have club hurling where standards also improved beyond recognition, 2 All Ireland titles in recent years. So opposite to your claim that the Dublin hurling doesn't get much mention, it has got plenty of discussion and your attempt to claim it hasn't improved with the onset of funding has been obliterated multiple times over."

And no fans could go to the Wexford game so we don't know how many from Dublin would have attended but under 10,000 was fairly certain.

I have already listed how Meath and Kildare have dramatically fallen from grace both in league standing and how they fared against lesser lights in Leinster. That is not a red herring it is fact and it undoubtedly has been a contributory factor to Dublin’s dominance in football. It contrasts with how Dublin have taken the game onto a new level. Compare this to hurling in Leinster KK have maintained a high standard and Wexford have had a revival. I feel Meath and Kildare people feel a bit ashamed how despite large advantages many other county’s do not have such as proximity to Dublin resources and population they have been mismanged. And have failed over 50% of the time in about the last decade against Leinster teams they should beat Westmeath Longford Wicklow etc. They have largely failed to makes themselves decent division 1 teams. They largely failed and the super 8s. Failed and failed utterly. They need not only the proper structures but the right people to lead those structures. They need a great man, a GAA man to the core. An astute intelligent man removed from the county politics. I suggest Meath/Kildare recruit Dublin people who know what they are doing. Someone like Jim Gavin would transform either county IMO. As Kildare and Meath need guidance. It is important that those with know how aid the less enlightened.

it was brought up in response to the suggestion that the Dublin senior footballers have only played 2 away games in the championship since 2016. that's incorrect.

It is not ‘healthy competition’ that is your biased spin on it. It is beyond doubt when you analyse Meath and Kildare in the last decade in Leinster - League - Championship and super 8’s their level has fallen dramatically. It is blinkered to term it as healthy competition. How long were Meath out of div1 over a decade. How have Kildare fared in div1 how long have they stayed there? The ‘healthy competition’ tells me you need to step back take off the blinkers and look at the facts the results of the last decade. They speak for themselves and when juxtaposed beside Dublin’s greatness, innovation and evolvement of the game it is stark. Meath and Kildare people know this in their heart of hearts their counties have been mismanaged since their former heydays. The focus for Meath and Kildare should not be Dublin. First they should try and solve why they now are prone to struggle or lose against far weaker teams on paper that is stage one. Carlow, Westmeath and Wicklow etc should not be beating a team like Meath or Kildare as often. They need to take a long hard look at themselves at what went wrong. That is stage one after they get back to a reasonable div1 consistent level next stage is Dublin’s level. It is up to Meath and Kildare to make the East Leinster project work. Among the most prosperous county’s in the country- population etc. They have little excuse as to how far they have fallen. That is just the cold hard facts.