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Cycle infrastructure planned for south Dublin

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  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭Mr. Cats


    Article in IT this morning wondering what if the DART had been Mannixed back in the day.

    Few posters on here need to realise it’s not just a few cycling fanatics pushing an agenda. The general public wants this infrastructure, is delighted with the developments like Dun Laoghaire to Blackrock, and understands why its important for health and environmental reasons.

    Objectors here are really on the wrong side of history. Like objecting to smokey coal bans cause you like a natural fire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    They removed vehicular lanes, and built cycle lanes. They also made roads one way, and closed off others for vehicular traffic. There was bigger objections than in Ireland by motorists who saw themselves as much more important than anyone else. However, sense prevailed and even the most ardent anti-mobility motorists saw that it was better for everyone.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    No, I don't drive a truck but looking around my house I see a lot of things that were delivered by one, including the furniture. fittings and most of the house itself.

    I suspect yours has too - quite possibly including your bicycle.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    I will welcome the infrastructure too, along with all the health and leisure benefits it brings.

    Now could we please find a CEO for DCC who has the brains to figure out a way to do it without disrupting the transport system and endangering the population of Sandymount?



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 19,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭Weepsie


    This plan predates Owen Keegan, so it's not some folly planned out to stick it to the people of sandymount.


    Deliveries won't stop because of a road is made one way. Logistics companies deal wih this all the time and deal with bigger issues



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  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Trudee


    Extract from IT article -

    ” In those early weeks and months of the pandemic, when the streets of the capital were empty of cars, Dublin City Council workers were, to me anyway, like a gang of hardworking fairies sprinkling safer cycling infrastructure all over the city.”

    what does Roisin have on the IT that they commission this sort of sub standard writing, a junior cert English student would be embarrassed to submit this effort.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The Dutch economy isn't based around people cycling along the canals of Amsterdam. They accomodate both and so should we.

    The issue is that we don't. There is very little cycling infrastructure in Ireland never mind Dublin. Most of what is deemed cycling infrastructure was designed and built with a view of removing something from in front of drivers. Cyclists were never consulted about it and unsurprisingly it has since been shown to be dangerous or inconvenient or both.

    When you say that "we should", we're trying to but you have opposition from people who don't want to lose their driving entitlements. Look at Griffith Ave where people still park on the cycle lanes. Look at BusConnects which has been watered down mainly because of NIMBY residents and backbone-less politicians. Look at the absence of guidelines from the NTA on how cycling infrastructure should be built. Currently, councils still design and build cycling infrastructure having been shown that it will not work and that to not follow the tried and tested Dutch model is foolish. However, this is generally done to suit drivers.

    Then you look at the infrastructure built recently such as the plastic bollards put along some cycle lanes. This still does not stop some drivers parking on the cycle lanes meaning cyclists must move onto the road. This deters nervous cyclists from cycling. Unfortunately some of the worst at doing this are the gardai themselves. The absence of adequate enforcement is unbelievable. The widespread experience is that Gardai are generally disinterested in agressive driving towards cyclists. Despite Shane Ross announcing the law change that meant drivers who inconvenience or endanger cyclists will be liable to both points and a fine. However, not once have the gardai used this, despite my request, since it was introduced when I presented camera evidence to AGS.

    No, I don't drive a truck but looking around my house I see a lot of things that were delivered by one, including the furniture. fittings and most of the house itself.

    I suspect yours has too - quite possibly including your bicycle.

    Are you suggesting that deliveries would not be possible had the Sandymount trial gone ahead? If so, why would deliveries not have been possible?



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,097 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    How do you propose to create a safe segregated cycle lane along a similar route that won't disrupt "the transport system"? How was the population of Sandymount endangered by a cycle lane?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    That explains why you don’t know what a HGV is then. Thanks for clearing it up


    Nothing in my house was delivered to by truck. I got a lend of a van to pick up sofas etc. One bike was delivered by a courier in a van, other bikes were picked up from the shops they were bought in by using public transport to get there. So all these trucks you are so concerned about are delivering items for private individuals to your favourite destination of the East Link bridge. How odd!

    Post edited by Fighting Tao on


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao




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  • Registered Users Posts: 512 ✭✭✭MangleBadger


    How is a cycle lane endangering the population of Sandymount?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    How do you think stuff gets from the factories to the warehouses and shops? How does stuff get from the cargo ships to where it needs to go next? Motorised transport has been central to the quality of life for 100 years and society is the better for it. Of course there can be problems in merging it with a road network that largely pre-dates it. That needs planning and innovation to solve - not confrontation and either/or solutions.



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    It isn't the cycle lanes. Its the trucks and cars that Keegan wants force through the village and side roads to accommodate the cycle lanes.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    Making Strand Road one way will not stop goods being delivered. The Dublin Tunnel was specifically built to remove trucks from the city. Trucks going to and from the port (north and south) are meant to use it. How do you think deliveries happen on other one way roads?



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao




  • Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    I'm not getting this. They want trucks to deliver to the door but not use the roads outside their houses....?



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    They will only be removed from Strand Rd. Nobody knows for certain where they will go instead (Keegan said he doesn't care) but those trying to reach the East Link and the Port will have to find a way.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i am trying to remember the last time i have seen a HGV delivering anything to anyone's house around here. the biggest vehicle i can remember seeing was probably a delivery to my house of cubic metre bags of topsoil, from a grab truck. or a skip bag truck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,321 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Aren't all these HGVs supposed to be banned anyway? The lack of enforcement is a great advert for a camera enforced cordon (which could also be repurposed for congestion charging down the line when the city grows up).



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Either you don't get out and about much or they've mastered teleportation of heavy goods which were formerly transported on heavy goods vehicles(HGVs).



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  • Registered Users Posts: 396 ✭✭strawdog


    No comments allowed in the article so they decided they didn't want any debate on this, which also sums up DCC's attitude in this. Its not always my cycleway or the highway, there was genuine problems with this route which is an artery for the port. You can't just magic away that kind of traffic and not cause problems elsewhere. The changing of the buses on to Park Avenue has already made that road way more treacherous. There could be some inventive solutions such as boardwalks and use of the big wide stretch of grass way along the strand similar to Clontarf. They need to go back to the drawing board, but easier just to say its close minded nimbyism



  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up




  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,660 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    you were the one talking about getting things to and from factories and cargo ships. you can't move the goalposts now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    They have a way. The m50, and Dublin Tunnel. That is the route they are supposed to take. You know that already though.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,483 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    He doesn't know what a HGV is, so there is no point in arguing it with him. The goalposts are constantly moved when he is picked up on his lack of understanding.



  • Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 26,399 Mod ✭✭✭✭Peregrine


    He can and he will. He's been doing it for months.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Do you think cars, trucks and vans will do that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭Trudee


    Also in ‘IT’ today -

    Sir, – The commentary concerning the High Court judgment last week on Dublin City Councils’s proposals for the cycleway on Strand Road, Sandymount, is overblown, bordering on the ridiculous. The phrase used by the council’s chief executive Owen Keegan, “devastating consequences”, on the development of cycling infrastructure is one example (News, July 31st). Another is his reference to the “enormous hurdle” of having to follow the planning process.

    What the judgment requires of the council is very simple. It must go through the planning process because it requires both environmental and appropriate assessments.

    The objective of a planning process is to provide proper planning and development. 

    It obliges developers to seek approval for their projects through a public procedure in accordance with criteria that have been developed since the 1960s, which results in either the granting or refusal of permission for developments.

    Surely the council, as the developer in this case, should be leading by example in honouring this process to the full rather than castigating it as an “enormous hurdle”? – Yours, etc,

    PAULA CLANCY,

    Sandymount, Dublin 4



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