Would you be happy for your children to receive covid-19 vaccine

I'm not sure quite what you think you're "pointing out", but those vaccinated have been shown time and again to be much less infectious and show reduced spreading of the virus than those who are not infected.

Is the number 0? No it isn't (and it isn't for any vaccines) is it a much lower %? Yes it is (initial studies show it's about 80%), will it be the same number for Delta? We don't know yet, but it will be some % vs. non vaccinated, and it will be a significant number.

You're also leaving out that a lot of the super spreaders are asymptomatic and don't know they have the virus.

So, eh, yea.

Apart from the asymptomatic spreaders you mean?

One of the big reasons COVID is so transmissible is that it achieves this before symptoms appear rather than after as is the case with most other respiratory viruses.

Have you been basing your whole argument on COVID only being spread symptomatically? Because that's just wrong.

edit: and sorry I missed this sooner as there was a lot of back and forths and weirdness happening between you and a few others.

Nowhere have I claimed asymptomatic cases can't transmit.

What I said was the data we have suggests that vaccinating SOLELY to stop transmission in asymptomatic cases will be largely ineffective, as the transmission reduction comes through the lessening of symptoms.

But it is effective, up to 80% effective in those vaccinated so far.

The vaccines mean that the antibodies already exist in the blood (or can be produced by T-Cells) to attack the virus immediately on becoming detected, this stops the virus multiplying which stops shedding which stops transmission. Symptoms only appear after the person's immune system starts attacking the virus, for vaccinated people, symptoms may never appear, but all the way from infection to eradication, the ability of the virus to replicate and shed is much lower than it is in non-vaccinated people.

The science and data is not on your side with this argument.

The CDC report that wants everyone to get vaccinated?

Vaccines reduce symptomatic and asymptomatic spread of the disease, we know this, we see it in all the data, we don't know the exact % but having a high number of people vaccinated reduces cases substantially as society has reopened, the areas which have low vaccination rates also see much higher transmission rates. On top of this, people with symptoms aren't going out and are isolating in the first place so a lot of the transmission is coming from asymptomatic non-vaccinated people. We will see continued spikes as society reopens and people get together, with vaccines, the threat that comes from that is greatly reduced.

Vaccines reduce symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission, that is unequivocal, you can argue what % that is, and whether it's worth it for children but you can't deny the facts.

Most of that isn't relevant to children's spread nor does most of it contradict my opinion, vaccines are great however mutations and variants remain possible as the infection is passed between the vaccinated anyway.

Its nice and a lucky coincidence that they slow transmission. Just to clear, are you denying that this is hugely attributed to the lessened symptoms?

These vaccines were neither designed nor trialled to reduce transmission, as I'm sure you are well aware.

Hence it is lucky to discover that they do, after the fact.

The general benefits of all vaccines is neither here nor there for the discussion at hand.

The priority as you call it was the sole task of these vaccines development, and to distribute them to children with the sole purpose of reducing transmission would be a re-purposing of that.

Again you are well aware of this I'm sure but are likely being disingenuous now to get your point across.

I agree it's great that they work for these purposes. Still as transmission is still high (rampant in certain hot spots) amongst the vaccinated, albeit with greatly reduced illness thankfully, this will not stop mutations (as was claimed earlier in the thread).

I think you can add a great misunderstanding of the development of vaccines to your misunderstanding about how asymptomatic transmission occurs.

There is no re-purposing going on here, the phase 3 vaccine trials into younger people started almost as soon as the adult trials had finished, this has all been part of the development plan from the beginning, trials will be ongoing into younger and younger groups for safety until everyone is covered (or issues found, which is quite rare at the phase 3 level).

Reduced viral load in the vaccinated greatly reduces the chances of mutations and if mutations do occur, reduces the chance that they will be shed and spread to others.

But again, what are you trying to argue for or against here, as you seem to be embarking on random tangents now (mutations may occur, transmission can happen, vaccines weren't "designed" to reduce transmission) all of which have been debunked. What's next?

Maybe I'm being too hard on you. Maybe you just don't know the facts and if so, I apologise.

Please understand that the mRNA vaccines have been scientifically proven to be highly effective at preventing infection. The US Veterans health system conducted a study of 110,000 people, half vaccinated, half unvaccinated, and found the vaccines to be 97% effective at preventing infection. Not illness, not death - infection. 97%.

Here's the study

Even if you allow for more breakthrough infections with Delta, that's still an incredible level of protection against infection. More than anyone could have hoped.

The CDC did a similar (smaller) study earlier in the year which showed similar results.

Your position is factually incorrect. It vastly reduces infections.

You now have the facts, I've explained that as clearly as I can.

Covid hasn't any long term studies either and those that we have aren't great. Asymptomatic people having cognitive problems as well as heart and lung issues later on are currently being studied and we can't be sure that they won't be dead in 5 years. That of course, seems unlikely and sounds like FUD but for every bit if FUD going around about the vaccines, there could be just as much made about covid itself if there was any money to be made from it on facebook. The way I look at it, if people are more worried about the long term effects of a vaccine more than the long term effects of the disease itself, fair play to them, because they truly are special.

While that is an unsurprising post, your takeaway is that vaccines are more dangerous than being infected with SARS-COV2. That's just not in any way correct, short term, mid term, long term, there is all the data out there showing that this is not correct.

But look, you're someone who goes to a country with high risk of malaria and fails to take medicine to prevent it, it is kind of an expected response for you with SARS-COV2 as well.

And I'm sure this will be more evidence in your head not to take it because you think you are in control by going against the masses or whatever, so good luck with that :)

We haven't had a long enough term to know that covid has no long term effects. We know that it does all sorts of thing to organs like the heart, lungs and brain and they might take a little bit of time to manifest. Covid is a lot more radical than the vaccine but if you have little use for your brain, then I wouldn't worry about any cognitive problems related to covid.

You are entitled to your opinion.

However there is more if a risk to pregnant women and babies from Covid Placentitis which is rare , than the vaccine .