Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

1171820222351

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Going to address some of the false accusations made by BR1 yesterday.

    "you aligned yourself with the conspiracy theorist and holocaust denier David Icke . You convicted yourself there I my opinion"

    I did... when exactly? I never 'aligned myself' with David Icke.

    2.

    "You have also flip flopped on a number of things, on page 26 you declared to everyone that you where done with this tread and stormed off, in what seemed to me as nothing but an attention seeking exercise only then to promptly returned spewing all sorts".

    This is what I said:

    "I like the new layout but it is near impossible to navigate and use. But it is this thread I can't take anymore. The unbearable stupidity of some on here is truly stomach churning. Climate 'experts' whom, if you asked them the name of the most basic form of cloud, would not be able to tell you without looking it up themselves.

    'Storming off'? Feck check: false.

    3.

    "spouting off things like “science caused climate change”

    Where's the lie? and why did stating this fact cause you to become hysterical? Only an idiot would deny the no small role of science on climate change...

    oh, wait...

    4.

    "Or the other conspiracy, that covid is actually a weapon of war and the scientists who “developed” it are guilty of genocide, a claim that you have not backed up with one shred of evidence".

    Where did I say that Covid was 'actually a weapon of war'? I don't recall... do remind me.


    You have made a number of claims in this post of yours which are actually quite libellous, which is bad enough, but to come from such an eminent Harvard graduate like yourself...

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Most people know that spinal tap is a pretend band but some people think they are real. Given that you think the UK Met office are drooling over the thought of dead people increasing their social media hits, I thought you might be in the latter category



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Some cherry picked data from Met Eireann:

    • Highest annual total: 3964.9mm at Ballaghbeama Gap, Co Kerry in 1960
    • Highest hourly total: 52.2mm at Clonroche, Co. Wexford on 27th June 1986
    • Lowest annual total: 356.6mm at Glasnevin, Co Dublin in 1887
    • Longest absolute drought: 3rd April to 10th May 1938 in Limerick


    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There are thousands of ‘notable’ weather events every day across the world. So that isn’t true. What is happening is that the weather events that can be explained by climate change are being linked to climate change

    And scientific Studies are showing clear trends in extreme weather events

    your idea of suing the government because they imposed carbon taxes is utterly ludicrous. You would be laughed out of court. However, courts are entertaining cases where energy companies are being sued because they successfully lobbied governments to not impose carbon taxes despite knowing that climate change was real at the time



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Where did I say the 'UK Met Office are drooling over the though of dead people increasing there social media hits'?

    Where did I say that Akrasia?

    Show me...

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia




  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    That's it? This is what you based your totally false claim on?

    Where exactly did I mention the UK Met in that post?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Akrasia, you need to open your eyes a bit and at least check what you're quoting.

    And I admit I don't get your fruit reference. I didn"t know cherries are grown in the UK.

    Anyway, my cherrypicked rainfall data also come from the same source as Oneiric's, i.e. https://www.met.ie/climate/weather-extreme-records



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Do you really honestly think that politicians want climate change to be real? It’s an enormous headache for them, do they want to have to raise taxes to pay for really expensive mitigation of long term flood risks?

    do they want the hassle of having this same debate over and over and over again? The idea that politics is leading the science is simply wrong. Green parties get a small percentage of the vote worldwide, while parties hostile to the idea of tackling climate change have dominated some of the most influential countries in the world

    your interpretation is literally the opposite of reality. Politics have interfered in the science to downplay the importance of tackling climate change. Interfering to water down reports, water down commitments, and eliminate consequences for breaching said commitments

    The Trump administration did everything it could to purge scientists who were experts on climate change and replace them with political cronies who were unqualified for those positions

    anyone who thinks politics is exaggerating the science on climate change needs to provide proof of this, not cartoons



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The UK Met introduced the extreme heat weather alert, I said they did it to save lives, you said they did it to increase social media hits, and that people dying will increase those clicks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    So in this link, 5 of the highest monthly temperatures occurred within the last 30 years in a dataset that goes back at least 130 years

    8 of the highest monthly rainfall figures were within the past 30 years, same dataset, going back 130+ years

    Only 1 of the lowest monthly rainfall months was within the past 30 years,

    6 of the highest Daily rainfall totals (grouped by month) came within the past 30 years .....


    This hardly counts as a dataset btw, it's an extremely flawed way at measuring trends which is why climate change uses gridded zonal anomaly records to calculate trends, they don't just point at individual datapoints like you guys are doing here.

    Climate science is hard, really hard. Looking at individual datapoints is easy. The scientists aren't watching the weather reports to see if the absolute maximum record is beaten in a single weather event, they are looking at the overall data to measure intensity, duration, geographic spread, affects on hydrology, the biosphere, the cryosphere, ocean temperatures etc etc etc

    When absolute temperature records are broken, it gathers attention, when these records are smashed, like what happened in Canada this month, the world pays attention, when they are smashed and continue to stay way higher than normal, like what is happening in Siberia recently, we should all pay attention

    I'm so tired of people having the 'I'll believe it when I see it' attitude to this topic. By the time you see it, and are convinced by it, it's way too late.

    The Titanic saw the iceberg, they hit it anyway.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    No, I did not. You are literally just making this up because you haven't a leg to stand on after making such a false claim. And we are to listen to you and that fraud (which I don't .. nay, refuse to believe you are) Banana about what the 'science' says?

    If you misinterpret and misrepresent a totally innocuous post like that. It naturally follows that questions are to be asked as to what else you are misinterpreting and misrepresenting.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    It isn't 'flawed', it is a list of recorded weather extremes on our island. No one claimed it was a climate dataset. But if extremes are getting more extreme as you put it, then why do you have give yourself a 30 year net to capture as many data points as you can to prove your point? Why not 20, or 10? or even 5?

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Akrasia, the northern Ireland temperature record was beaten last week. It was listed as climate change.

    Valentia had two "tropical nights". It was listed as climate change.

    Yet you are willing to disregard the whole weather extreme dataset for Ireland because it only lists individual stations, while at the same time use rhat very dataset to make a point about the last 30 years? Don't make me laugh.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Just in case you forgot what you were spewing Oneric3, and it does seem that way. Here is a run down of what you call false accusations in your rebuttal on page 32 to me. Post title: Going to address some of the false accusations made by BR1 yesterday.

    Generally you wanted me to show you're were you made these outlandish statements, well here they are, enjoy:

    “But it is this thread I can't take anymore.”

    I read the above on page 26 and assumed you meant I’m off and I wasn’t the only one. But it I suppose in hind sight it was just another cry for attention.


    I asked you a straight question on page 14, "Does the Holocaust denier David Icke have legitimacy in your opinion" you went silent


    On page 29 you said:

    I asked you several times after this "Who exactly perpetrated this genocide you speak off ?"Course you tried to deflect with some other nonsense but eventually the heat got to much for your little head and you said:

    "And if this Covid crap has been revealed to have come from a lab.. then scientists will be have the deaths of 4 million needless deaths on their hands. Just as they already have for far more countless others by the weaponry they provide (for huge profits) for war lusting governments with."

    I was wondering what the heck you meant by "Posidonia", 🤔, so I looked it up and apparently its a genus of flowering plant specifically nine variants of seagrass,🌸. Only you know what you meant I suppose but then again on page 30 you said yourself "Now, I'm obviously a bit tick, like," so I'll give you the benefit.

    Now I know its been warm of late, not helped of course by anthropogenic global warming 🛢️, perhaps you just need to cool your jets after all the keyboard warrior-ing 🗡️🛡️

    Its a crazy world outside, you just hold on to yourself lad!

    Post edited by Banana Republic 1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Because 30 years is the standard length of time when talking about Climate



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3



    You called me a holocaust denier and a Nazi and accused me of saying things I didn't and this is the 'evidence' you dreg up to support your libelous claims?

    You are a fraud. A Troll and a liar. And I won't cool down until your toxic presence is off this thread. 'lad'. *

    *A very SW English term funnily enough...

    New Moon



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    I answered all your questions by posting up you’re exact words.

    Post up the quote in which I called you a holocaust denier and a Nazi.

    “A very SW English term” explain that one.

    Are you denying you posted those things like calling me a “humourless idiot” because your the one doing trolling here. I know replying to you is just like feeding an infection but it is interesting all the same.


    Post edited by Banana Republic 1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    A quick table based off that rainfall table by Met Eireann. Counts the number of occurrences of extreme events in each climate period from 41 to 91.

    Done in a rush, so small chance I didn't calculate one or two correctly so will gladly be corrected.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    "I can see now that replying to you is just like feeding an infection."

    You are the infection, and posting up your go to image responses (are they the only stock images you have?) won't change that.

    Tick tock...

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    One question to maybe consider regarding those tables is are there/were there more or less synoptic/climate stations now or in earlier climate period as it would stand to reason that a wider and more condensed coverage would capture more extremes regarding rainfall than a less wide and less dense coverage.

    New Moon



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I think a huge part of this is human psychology and our rather thin veneer of development and sophistication.

    If you think about it, even in the most developed parts of the world, unless you're from a very wealthy family tree, most of us are only a couple of generations from having lived hand-to-mouth. The quality of life improved very dramatically in the West, and other developed parts of the world in the mid 20th century, particularly after WWII and very much so since the 1950s, on the back of major technology changes that drove societal changes.

    That occurred later in Asia, but has been similarly dramatic and it's spreading. If you look back into 19th century industrial era Europe or the US, the vast majority of the population were not wealthy, and most worked in menial jobs. If you compare most of our current elderly grandparents, e.g. those born before or during WWII, to someone born in the 1960s or someone born in the 1980s or the last 20 years, there just is no comparison really in terms of the opportunities they had and the lifestyles they can aspire to live, the educational opportunities they had access to. What was once an extreme privilege became mainstream.

    We still have a society that is still very much driven by an industrial productivity and financial sector philosophy of a need for endless growth. It's not at all incentivised by a need to be efficient with resources, or minimise ecological impact. I

    n fact, in most cases, we put plenty of incentives in place to do the exact opposite. We think very excessively in the short term. It's about quarter-to-quarter growth, or year-on-year comparisons of GDP or similar factors. We also struggle to measure quality of life, and tend to get our work-life balance very much tipped towards the work side. The most successful 'economies' are talked about rather than societies, cultures or even countries.

    Some wealthier parts of the world have the luxury of being able to think long term. The more socially democratic parts like Europe for example, can do more of it than most, but plenty of the wealthiest part of the world are by and large not doing so or are just paying lip service to it, and I think that's largely down to our inability to think like that at a societal or political level beyond one election cycle to the next or at the very most beyond our immediate circumstances.

    Solving this needs us to get our heads around the idea of thinking multigenerationally, and imagining what kind of society and planet we actually want this to be. I don't really think we do that, I mean does it even matter to most people what the place is going to be like after they die? I know we all in theory would like to care about it, but do we really?

    Personally, I think we're going to slide and crash, headfirst into a climate mess and we will only begin to attempt to mitigate it as it hits. It'll be a reactive, engineering led response, rather than one that attempts to prevent this mess happening and I can well imagine in an Irish context, that we'll be knee deep in water before we even do that, as the defences that may be necessary will be seen as unnecessary and too expensive until there's serious impact already. We do that with all big capital projects here anyway - and that's not unique to Ireland - reactive policy making is the norm in most countries.

    We're continuously dancing around the edges of this topic and I honestly don't think that's going to change until it starts to have serious tangible impact and, that seems to be the path we're on right now, not just in Ireland but around the world.

    Places like the US, where you've flat out denial of science on a whole range of topics, in my view anyway, are just lost. It's headbangers ball in terms of politics over there. I mean you've people burying their heads in the sand about COVID, never mind climate change and that's FAR more tangible and immediate a treat.

    Sorry if this is a bit philosophical for a weather post, but I just don't see this being resolved simply because as a species we're still operating very much in the immediate present and while we can see beyond the horizon, we'd rather not look.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    That's what I said yesterday regarding the temperature record in Kilkenny. Surely it wasn't localised to just one location, but it seems stations were few and far between back then.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    .......



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Do you think all these sensationalist media headlines are a coincidence? There is a normal rhythm to background chatter about weather events in the media, seasoned observers will note the change of language used, normal weather events are now described as extreme and violent and instead of warming they use heating. You may remember the ramp up in the publicity machinery in advance of the New York, UN September 2019. It is no coincidence that this public relations activity happens in advance of the summary UN IPCC Assessment Report (AR6) on August 9th, (note it is the summary for policy makers, not the full 1000 page document) and will culminate in the UN Conference of the Parties (COP) climate ambition jolly to be held this November in Glasgow. There are more articles in the pipeline and you can see this in the most recent comments of the RTE head of news requiring staff (and more licence money) to deliver them, they need to learn the new buzzwords.


    U.N. climate panel confronts implausibly hot forecasts of future warming

    Ahead of each major IPCC report, the world’s climate modeling centers run a set of scenarios for the future, calculating how different global emissions paths will alter the climate. These raw results, compiled in the Coupled Model Intercomparison Project (CMIP), then feed directly into the IPCC report. The results live on as other scientists use them to assess the impacts of climate change, insurance companies and financial institutions forecast effects on economies and infrastructure, and economists calculate the true cost of carbon emissions, says Jean-François Lamarque, a lead climate modeler at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR) and CMIP’s new director. “This is not an ivory tower type of exercise.”


    In the past, most models projected a “climate sensitivity”—the warming expected when atmospheric carbon dioxide (CO2) is doubled over preindustrial times—of between 2°C and 4.5°C. Last year, a landmark paper that largely eschewed models and instead used documented factors including ongoing warming trends calculated a likely climate sensitivity of between 2.6°C and 3.9°C. But many of the new models from leading centers showed warming of more than 5°C—uncomfortably outside these bounds.


    The track record of people using climate modelling to predict the future has been woeful to date and it does not look like getting any better. The article above is the conundrum they are facing. Should they accept these new hotter results it means they were very wrong for decades, however, if they reject the results it calls the modelling into serious question in the media, so there may well be a split in the modelling community where half the models have to be scrapped otherwise it may become much too obvious that there are no models that can configure and simulate any of Earth’s natural variability over any meaningful time frame an we will continue to get always 10 years in future forecast of doom.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    It always amazes me that after decades of research and "settled' science they are still no closer to knowing the figure for climate sensitivity. The most important factor of all, the very building block of all the forecasts, and yet they've still not nailed it. But the science is settled, the consensus is in.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    So are you now saying you do believe that there is climate change caused by the near 50% increase in atmospheric CO2 ppm since 1750.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Don't forget too, we're losing atmospheric oxygen at a rate of 4 ppm per year or 19 molecules per million. Has Channel 4 not caught onto that yet? For fex sake what's kapin them? At the rate we're currently burning fossil fuels we'll run out of oxygen in only 40,000 years! Think of our grandchildren! Oh, the humanity!

    https://cdiac.ess-dive.lbl.gov/trends/oxygen/modern_records.html



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Assuming people are still around in 40,000 years. Something similar happened to Mars. Of course that was billions of year ago and the earth is significantly bigger, Who knows what the future will bring. 5 billion years ago Venus was like earth, if there was some of life there or not I don’t know, but it’s climate changed and now look at it.

    As for channel 4, I just watch the news and if there’s something relevant to this thread I post it nothing else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    There are not "thousands of 'notable' weather events every day across the world" otherwise we would not see RTE ("we must do better") scouring the globe for any interesting weather event to hitch to the global warming bandwagon. Surely the UK and Ireland and perhaps nearby northern France would suffice for their daily canon fodder feed in this regard? After all that aforementioned land-mass would more than cover the percentile of "thousands" across the globe [b]every day[/b] if your assertation were even remotely true, right?

    Secondly, my assertation that the carbon taxes levied on energy consumption are put in place in order to "change habits" and that these funds are supposed to be ringfenced to cover projects that mitigate against the effect of climate change are de-facto an insurance policy against the potential disasters - then it is only reasonable that the government who have installed themselves as underwriter in-so-far-as collecting such funds should therefore be compelled to "pay out" in the event of such disasters occurring when they promised that said taxes would reduce same disasters, right?

    Instead, what we see is colossal monies being collected by government via scams such as carbon taxes and these funds being channeled into bolstering already over inflated wage levels of CEOs and their buddy C-Suite working within various "charities" who in turn lobby said government for more funding to cover their hobby horse. It amounts to nothing more than paid opposition. Welcome to the brave new world.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    "The scientists aren't watching the weather reports to see if the absolute maximum record is beaten in a single weather event"

    Then it is not science, at all, at all.

    Every single detail has got to be under the absolute most scrutiny, no exception - whether that is from thermometers in Kilkenny Castle checked by UKMO staff in 1887, Markree Castle in Sligo in 1881 or even an icecream van in Scotland a year or so ago. Surely you'd agree with "peer reviewed" checks and balances, right?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Absolute hyperbole. It's not often I call out a post for blatant mis-information but this post certainly fits the bill.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Point out which parts are misleading and why ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Allegation 1: Something similar happened to Mars!

    Allegation 2: Five million years ago Venus was like Earth

    Allegation 3: But it’s climate changed and now look at it.

    Have you peer-reviewed papers that clearly outline where Venetians or Martians driving around in diesel cars heralded the end of life on said planets?

    Seriously... I'm awaiting to read such a study - popcorn is already in the microwave, looking forward to it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I was booking Ryanair flights for a couple of weeks' time and I noticed they offered me the opportunity to fully offset my carbon footprint for €3.25 or partially offset it for €2.00. I chose neither. Where does this money end up, does anyone know? What will Ryanair do with it and to what will it be put towards? I haven't seen this on Ryanair before.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Just did a Google search for "Ryanair carbon offset" and the first hit was this company (Norwegian too, hmmm) offering tailored plans for individuals and companies alike. I was especially amused reading that you will be able to offset your pets!!? Wtf?

    https://chooose.today/about/?gclid=Cj0KCQjw6ZOIBhDdARIsAMf8YyGCAWmfsIKkcE8js6612QNs7cOPaLOWze2fK7tVmyd8nm26q_WY0ZMaAgMdEALw_wcB

    The future is in €arbon Off$$et$ - Ka-ching!

    KEY FEATURES

    Everything you need - all in one place

    ✔ Climate subscriptions

    ✔ Climate gift shop

    ✔ Offset your flights and travels

    ✔ Footprint reduction guide

    ✔ Offset your car emissions (coming soon)

    ✔ Offset your pets (coming soon)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    The CEO of that company seems to have left his job as a lawyer in 2018 to set up that company, going by his LinkedIn profile. Must be really lucrative business, carbon credits. They can afford to pay to get the company listed first in the Google search too. We're in the wrong business.

    Ryanair have on their website the "climate charities" that benefit from the voluntary carbon offsets.

    They've raised €3.5M to date. One charity buys cooking stoves for families in Uganda. Yes, because those damn carbon-neutral campfires that currently burn wood and recycle that carbon back into the air from whence it came just really are a global nuisance.

    As is the lack of clean drinking water in Malawi, which is why Ryanair has teamed up with Shell (there they are again) to build boreholes instead of using to wood to boil water.

    Why are these African countries being blamed for emissions by burning wood? Clean drinking water is great, but is this the only thing these charities are working on? They're choosing the easy fix rather than taking on the big polluters. Easy money for these charities, who I presume, like many other charities, pay CEOs. No thank you. I've done my fair share of monthly direct debits to multiple charities over the years but no more, after seeing the salaries some of these guys are on.

    https://corporate.ryanair.com/environment/



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Here is more information on what you call Allegations as if Ive committed Regicide or something, I just call them statements.

    1. Something similar happened to Mars.

    If you bothered to notice I was remarking on a post by GL, which is actually directly above mine. In which GL states, "we're losing atmospheric oxygen at a rate of 4 ppm per year" Did I repudiate the validity of his statement, no I did not.

    • So what did happen to Mars

    NASA wanted to find this out too so the sent a survey mission to Mars, known as MAVEN, to try to get some answers. They concluded that a process called atmospheric escape, involving ions and solar winds and what not, over millions and millions of years caused the important parts martian atmosphere, ie the H in H2O to essentially leak out into space. They got loads of data and papers and data were published in several journals here's a link,

    https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/doSearch?field1=Keyword&text1=mars&Ppub=

    Now Earth has an atmosphere and it with it comes the ability to retain heat known as the greenhouse affect. As Mars lost it atmosphere this greenhouse affect disappeared, which means that Mars now only gets to around 20 degrees in the day and plummets to -150 or something at night. NASA determined that whatever water was on Mars either escaped into the space or froze at the poles or underground, which is why they are looking for water underground.

    • Is this happening to Earth, well GL mentioned it like I said and I didn't know this myself but "we're losing atmospheric oxygen at a rate of 4 ppm per year" but as he later stated it'll be some time before the oxygen goes, if at all really.

    You may or may not remember a recent BBC series called the planets presented by Professor Brian Cox but-as its behind a pay wall I can't post a nice summary video so this is the closets thing I found, the bit about Venus I'll talk about later.


    So called allegations 2 and 3, "Five million years ago Venus was like Earth" and Venuses climate changed.

    To quote myself verbatim, "5 billion years ago Venus was like earth", notice its billion not million.

    Seemingly yes Venus was like Earth some 3.5 to 5 billion years ago. Note the Sun was younger and cooler then compared to now and it is said that Venus had shallow water and a temperate climate back then.

    Earth and Venus are very similar, similar in size, both have an atmosphere and are volcanic. Volcanic activity on both planets pushed carbon and sulphur etc into the atmosphere but because Venus is much closer to the Sun and therefore hotter its liquid water essentially evaporated into space in the form of hydrogen and the oxygen bound with the carbon from the volcanoes which shrouds Venus today which in turn traps all the heat and ultraviolet rays from the sun making Venus hot and extremely hostile to life.


    The above is an article from the express and contains a short clip from the BBC documentary series I mentioned about the planets.


    As for the peer reviewed articles about "Venetians", I expect you meant Venusians not some Italians, or Martians driving around in diesel cars heralded the end of life said planets"

    No thats not a claim that I made, indeed that would be ridicules, again to quote myself, "if there was some of life there or not I don’t know" I said nothing about intelligent life at any stage, bacterial perhaps is a possibility.

    Two final points:

    Could what happened on Mars happen on Earth, its a possibility I suppose but as Earth is much bigger than Mars it has a larger magnetic field and is far less susceptible the effects of solar radiation. However what happened to Venus is much more likely to happen Earth in so far as the Sun will expand over the next few billion years getting closer to Earth, it'll probably consume it after, but the point is Earth will experience the same conditions as Venus at some stage. Are humanities "misdeeds re CO2 contributing to Earth turning into what Venus is today, no.

    All of what are commonly called ICE vehicles , internal combustion engines vehicles powered by fossil fuels, put out CO2. Diesel engines also put out inherently more NOX, (nitrogen dioxide) and particulate matter, (unburned hydrocarbons), then petrol engines. Diesels aren't making the planet worse in the CO2 sense so much but the emissions hang around in the air and us Humans and essentially everything else that has lungs are breathing in carcinogens all the time.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    I two would be sceptical about that, why because its Ryanair. However you will see more anymore companies doing this, they will use those funds to buy carbon credits no doubt these monies will be ring fenced and wont affect there actual margins.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    It is, in fact thats how Tesla makes much of it profits it sells surplus carbon credits that they have because they only produce electric cars. Farmers in Ireland should really hook into this instead of making nothing from beef.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Carbon credits have all the appearances of a scam, would take a brave farmer to go down that road.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    How does paying a few quid to charities approved of by an airline company 'offset carbon emissions'? Meaningless, misleading jargon to enhance that 'feel good factor' for the NPCs who actually buy into that crap.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Climate is being used as a cover for a massive wealth transfer from middle to upper income groups, this will eventually bring down these political schemes and there is a growing awareness across Europe among pragmatic politicians whose constituents must bear the direct costs. In Europe the main resistance has come in the form of the yellow vests in France, but that has not stopped the French government via the subterfuge of a Citizens' Climate Convention from banning domestic air travel (unless its a connecting route i.e. Air France). This concern is discussed in a recent Die Welt article (subscription) as the resistance takes hold in Poland, Italy and Germany against the costs. In the UK Nigel Farage has popped up again and ever the opportunist has seized on the costs of net zero and made it about the wealthy "Richmond Greens" who rule the country versus the middle class.

    Every alternative energy scheme proposed in this country depends on the generation of electricity, grid supplied electricity is costly to maintain and the high subsidies (e.g. RESS) for random energy generation and escalating system management costs involving higher balancing costs and increased transmission expenditures combined with increased demand mean the prices to consumers can only increase for Irish consumers before demand management (Time of Use tariff) becomes an issue. In particular demand is cyclical throughout the day, and while we can make changes in consumption at the margins, the cost burden is going to fall heaviest on working families who work 9 to 5 since we only have a limited time window to prepare for the next day, i.e. get home, prepare meals, heat the house, iron clothes, look after children, get washed there is no choice on the time window we can act, i.e. the cost burden is heaviest.

    Cost Recovery

    The policy states that the cost of building out the offshore transmission system will ultimately be recovered from electricity customers (consistent with existing practice for the onshore transmission system).


    However, the manner in which costs will be recovered will vary in different phases. In the First and Second Phases costs will be borne by Generators and incorporated in RESS bids, while in Phase 3 the costs of developing offshore grids will be borne by EirGrid and recovered through use of system charges. This means that grid connection costs will impact on generator bids in RESS in Phases 1 and 2, but not Phase 3, which may result in strategic decisions in relation to auctions into which projects are bid.


    It also means that the PSO will be significantly increased by projects in Phase 1 and 2, while also exposing such projects to cash flow and sovereign risk issues associated with RESS that would not be present if grid costs were recovered through use of system charges. Generators in Phase 3 will face a range of other challenges, as they are no longer in control of transmission planning and delivery. It remains unclear whether these risks will be managed in Ireland in ways that have proved bankable in other jurisdictions.


    Meanwhile both India and China are the only countries meeting their Paris 2015 agreement targets i.e. they promised to do nothing. Politically and economically we are in a situation where the Irish Government has been unable to stop a virus spreading, yet claim they can stop climate change if we just pay more tax? There is an economic trade-off between the use of fossil fuels and the current mania that dominates public relations press releases concerning the weather.

    The alarmist creed boils down to these points:

    • Our actions on climate are pronounced and controlling
    • Our influence cannot be positive or benign, only catastrophic
    • The only solution to this problem is global governance i.e. technocracy.


    In reality the planet has never been a safer place for humans to live which has demonstrably been the case for the past century.

    Because while fossil-fuel use has only a mild warming impact, it has an enormous protecting impact. Nature doesn’t give us a stable, safe climate that we make dangerous. It gives us an ever-changing, dangerous climate that we need to make safe. And the driver behind sturdy buildings, affordable heating and air-conditioning, drought relief and everything else that keeps us safe from climate is cheap, plentiful, reliable energy, overwhelmingly from fossil fuels.


    The idea that the future climate must be static and we must be governed by technocratic blueprints in order to return to an idealised, stable past that never existed is stupid and will kill us, the reality is constant creation, discovery, and competition will in general improve our standard of living.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    It’s the way things are going in the rest of the EU and in Britain now Ireland is about ten years behind on this aswell as other things. Here is a clip from a genuine British farmer in his mid to late 50s. I find him informative and interesting and he talks here about just that. Skip onto about 8 mins in to the carbon credit economy bit.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    "Climate is being used as a cover for a massive wealth transfer from middle to upper income groups, this will eventually bring down these political schemes and there is a growing awareness across Europe among pragmatic politicians whose constituents must bear the direct costs". - Pa ElGrande.

    And not just climate:

    Mega-rich recoup COVID-losses in record-time yet billions will live in poverty for at least a decade | Oxfam International

    It is probably just coincidence that the more we are told to 'listen to the science', the more that economic inequality grows.


     

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,665 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Incentivising farmers to focus on non edible produce is an extremely dangerous concept which could have devastating impacts on the non rich.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement