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2020 officially saw a record number of $1 billion weather and climate disasters.

1293032343551

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    But the scientists know this, and have developed sophisticated techniques to account for the varied distribution of stations and the data are regularly analyses and validated against independent lines of evidence including scientific observations (multiple independent types of sensory data) and proxy data, and modeling (essentially the best mathematical equations humans have ever developed, formulated and run independently by multiple different teams around the world. This might not be good enough evidence for you, but it’s the best we have, constantly improving and it’s good enough for 97% of all practicing professional climate scientists and every professional scientific institution on the planet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Europe is big enough for Africa, just as Europe was big enough to go into Africa and turn it, via colonialism, into a **** hole The very subtle racist element going on with some of the arguments on here these last few weeks are disturbing.

    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If you read the link I posted above, it said that this kind of explosive intensification was modeled to occur about 1 in a hundred years pre climate change. And about once every 5 years by 2100

    with rapid intensification of 115mph in 24 hours happening more than 1 time every decade

    thats a major hurricane appearing and landfalling out of nowhere. That changes everything that cities currently do to protect lives given 3-4 days notice



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    You wear your heart on your sleeve, admirably. Good on you.


    Satellite data fills in the overwhelming majority, and is the in many cases the prime and only source of upper atmosphere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There is absolutely nothing racist in what I said. Displacing tens or hundreds of millions of people from their homes causes instability regardless of what color their skin is. Africa is extremely vulnerable to climate change given that many are already facing heat and drought stress in their current climate.

    Europe could and should do everything possible to take these people in and welcome them as equals. But I have been called a utopian for a lot less than this



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The fossil fuel companies hired PR companies, advising them to maximize doubt and uncertainty. Exxon’s own internal research proved to them decades ago that this was real, and they buried the findings and spent millions on campaigns lobbying politicians and the media to emphasize doubt and uncertainty. They hired literally the same scientists and PR companies that the Tobacco companies used to deny smoking caused cancer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The satellite records do a lot of heavy lifting but they are calibrated by on site measurements too. On the whole I trust the evidence not least because there are plenty of arrogant self important scientists out there who want to make a name for themselves and would get thousands of citations if they can successfully demonstrate errors in the temperature records

    Errors are found all of the time btw, and they adjust for them regularly, it’s just that with so many points of redundancy the the errors rarely make such a difference to affect the overall outcome

    when they do, it’s headline news



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    101 years ago almost to the day. Around 936 hPa and 125 kts on landfall.

    Galveston Hurricane 1900

    This killer weather system was first detected over the tropical Atlantic on August 27. While the history of the track and intensity is not fully known, the system reached Cuba as a tropical storm on September 3 and moved into the southeastern Gulf of Mexico on the 5th. A general west-northwestward motion occurred over the Gulf accompanied by rapid intensification. By the time the storm reached the Texas coast south of Galveston late on September 8, it was a Category 4 hurricane. After landfall, the cyclone turned northward through the Great Plains. It became extratropical and turned east-northeastward on September 11, passing across the Great Lakes, New England, and southeastern Canada. It was last spotted over the north Atlantic on September 15.

    This hurricane was the deadliest weather disaster in United States history. Storm tides of 8 to 15 ft inundated the whole of Galveston Island, as well as other portions of the nearby Texas coast. These tides were largely responsible for the 8,000 deaths (estimates range from 6,000 to 12,000) attributed to the storm. The damage to property was estimated at $30 million...




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    thats a major hurricane appearing and landfalling out of nowhere. That changes everything that cities currently do to protect lives given 3-4 days notice

    What is, that one in 1856? Yes, it was indeed. At least these days we have infinitely more warning.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    Perhaps in this thread what needs to be done and what should have been done is to start with areas of agreement.

    Some instances where I have seen common agreement.

    • Current human activities are not sustainable
    • Pollutants are negatively impacting ecosystems
    • Ecosystems are being directly destroyed through farming , mining, developments etc.
    • A move away from fossil fuels is welcomed by all

    All of these lean in favour of AGW. What of other areas to agree

    • Hyperbolic publications and conversations are left unchecked.
    • We still lack fundamental understanding of our atmosphere, oceans, climate and their cycles
    • Not enough of the globe is measured at a ground level
    • 1 in X years is not an ideal scientific measure
    • Discerning between level of naturalness and non natural is still ambiguous.


    Are we agreed that no credible scientific journal or community is saying Climate Change is civilisation ending or threatening the human species.


    We can also agree that satellites are not as accurate as manned or automated stations?


    From a pro AGW standpoint, where if any can there be a conscious assessment of the failings within the predictions?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I agree with all your points that you agree we agree on

    (yes I know)

    I think we need to focus on solutions and number 1 on the agenda is to strip away all tax incentives and subsidies that in any way encourage fossil fuels as a form of energy

    if we can do this one thing it will go a long way towards an organic transition to sustainable energy (which should remain subsidized in the short term until it reaches economies of scale

    The second thing I would do is invest heavily in Bev charging infrastructure. Should be cheap as chips on the greater scheme of things byr needs to be done

    the third thing I would do is provide grants to households to move to heat pumps. This is expensive upfront but way more efficient long term, exactly what the state should invest in

    the 4th thing I would do is to require all new buildings are passive standard. We have the technology to do this

    the 5th thing I would do is massively incentivize rewilding. Literally paying landowners to do nothing with their land but let it grow wild. This will improve biodiversity and soak up carbon in the process

    All the other stuff I said in my previous post still apply. Force manufacturing to be sustainable and recyclable and end the likes of the single use rubbish that has been ubiquitous and Is destroying our planet

    I’m more than happy to hear your (and others) suggestions and would happily revise my list if your suggestions were better than mine



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    I don't think a "first world" lifestyle is possible without carbon or reaching carbon neutrality. Hydro carbons are more ingrained in out lifestyle than many folks realise. it's not just energy and transport. Which most in here know. I do feel the average Joe is not aware of that.


    Your 5th suggestion is the easiest of the lot, and very attractive when done correctly. I would expand on this and remove VAT on all indigenous plants sold in the country.

    There is no historic event to suggest that our government could manage any change well, let alone have a it completed globally. I'd like to see a move to nuclear and have the country self sufficient in energy production.


    I will say that folks who say there is no problem at all and folks who say civilization will end are both extremists.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,760 ✭✭✭Birdnuts




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Hydrocarbons used for making plastics and fertiliser and other things is not a major cause of climate change, but in general, there are alternative technologies for most of the things we use Oil for, the problem is that Oil is so cheap (and subsidised) that it is not economically viable to use the eco friendly versions


    Yes we will all need to make some sacrifices, but nothing that we cannot adapt to and be perfectly content with in a sustainable economy.

    People who say civilisation will end are extremists

    People who say civilisation 'could' end if we don't address the problem are in line with the science



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I'm glad for the people who live near the Sahel. I sincerely hope that things work out for them

    I would worry that the greenierness might not be providing enough evapo-transpiration to cool the region down and protect the people from the increased frequency of deadly heatwaves

    Unfortunately water vapour is a greenhouse gas, so if the changes cause increased humidity it could increase the intensity of future heatwaves in the region and furthermore, increased humidity makes heatwaves deadlier.

    All of the above is just to highlight how focusing on a single factor doesn't give you a full picture. Studies are required to assess the likely impact of climate change on these regions.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    So wait, the other day you were going on about southern Europe and how desertification is bad because less vegetation means hotter and drier ground and hence hotter heatwaves. But now greener conditions also mean hotter heatwaves because of increased water vapour (heat index)? Make up your mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,901 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    A "climate-change-enhanced hurricane" no less.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Because without climate-change, New Orleans would never get hurricanes.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Disappointed that Ida didn't offer any record-breaking opportunity for hyperbole they resort to some stock general articles from the archives. Never let a clickbait opportunity go to waste.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Why did you pose your declaration as a question? Please don't tell me you are one of those low IQ 'uptalkers'


    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    I had a quick skim down through his timeline and like most Neolibs (psuedo-liberals) he views those who don't conform fully to his idea of the world as 'bad people'.


    New Moon



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    Ida left 1million without power. That’s the biggest news. We’ll ~950million live without access to electricity everyday.

    Negative effects of global warming, if any at all pale in comparison to current issues.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I said it is complex and needs to be studied. Places like southern Europe are already hot and dry, and getting hotter and drier. Places like the Sahel, may get 'greener' in some parts, but different kinds of heat bring different problems. The problem is the global average temperature is going up leading to extremes of heat. All it takes is a WB temperature of 35c to be fatal to humans and most mammals that live above ground.

    I don't know much about the Sahel region, but the Moroccan Max daily temperature is 49c, if the region is greening, this suggests a change in their rainfall and or humidity, which could lead to a scenario where the WB temperatures to exceed safe levels for humans

    The Persian gulf for example, often have RH of between 70% and 90% and high daily temperatures,

    At 90% RH, if the air temperature reaches 36.5c, it's in extremely deadly heatwave territory, even healthy young people will die within hours if exposed to this level of heat.

    Changing rainfall patterns may bring some benefits but with climate change, there are also risks of catestrophic events that the local populations are not prepared for

    At 50c air temperature, RH needs only to reach 35% to become deadly

    And of course, this 35c WBGT is the un-survivable level for fit healthy people sheltering from the heat. At temperatures and conditions lower than this, people will die if they are working outdoors or have other underlying conditions

    And if you think you're safe because you live in air conditioned buildings, the grid is placed under extreme pressure during temperature spikes and some generation facilities are unable to operate at these temperatures (including nuclear BTW)

    Nuclear plants facing closure as heatwave grips Europe - Independent.ie

    The IPCC warns strongly of these risks and that these heatwaves will become many times more common, leading to geometrically more opportunities for the convergence of unlikely events that are the progenitors of extreme weather events

    All of the scientists worth listening to agree that we're getting into a very dangerous climate regime. not one sensible climate scientists advocates a wait and hope for the best approach, or 'it's not certain yet so lets' just continue as normal and see what happens.

    The IPCC 'Code Red For Humanity' is about as clear a warning as it is possible to give. What more do you people need?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    It also flooded New York causing recordbeaking rain resulting in unprecedented flash flooding, dropping 3.15 inches of rain in one hour, beating the previous record of 1.9 inches in an hour, set only 1 week before....

    and destroyed billions of Dollars worth of infrastructure and breached Levees that were supposedly re-enforced following Katrina...

    But yeah. Ida was just another every day storm.

    All of these records being shattered all around the world. Records lasting only weeks or months before being shattered again.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    One of the resident geniuses on this thread who do not know what the word 'enhanced' means



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    How was it enhanced? Any data to prove it, apart from a probability?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Just some info from the top guys at the NHC. It also applies to such things as detecting rapid intensification and indeed maximum intensities.

    Was 2020 a Record-Breaking Hurricane Season? Yes, But. . . « Inside the Eye

    Take Aways

    The answers and conclusions to “Was 2020 a Record-Breaking Hurricane Season? Yes, but…”:

    Doubling in the number of named storms over a century is very likely due to technology change, not natural or man-made climate change;

    2020 set a record for number of named storms, but given the limitations in our records it is possible that other years (such as 1887) were just as active for long-lived named storms; and

    The boost in average or “normal” conditions from 12 to 14 named storms is due to a combination of a busy era that began in 1995 as well as the ability of the National Hurricane Center to observe and accurately diagnose more weak, short-lived named storms than had been done previously, mostly due to technology advancements.

    Some key sections:

    For overall monitoring of tropical storm and hurricane activity, tropical meteorologists prefer a metric that combines how strong the peak winds reached in a tropical cyclone, and how long they lasted – called Accumulated Cyclone Energy or ACE[2].  By this measure, 2020 was extremely busy, but not even close to record breaking. In fact, with a total ACE of 180 units, 2020 was only the 13th busiest season on record since 1878 with seasons like 1893, 1933, 1950, and 2005 substantially more active than 2020. One can also see that while there is a long-term increase in recorded ACE since the late 1800s, it’s quite a bit less dramatic than the increase seen with named storms. There also is a pronounced busier/quieter multi-decadal (40- to 60-year) cycle with active conditions in the 1870s to 1890s, late 1920s to 1960s, and again from the mid-1990s onward. Conversely, quiet conditions occurred in the 1900s to early 1920s and 1970s to early 1990s.


    So why would the record for named storms be broken in 2020, while the overall activity as measured by ACE is not even be close to setting a record?                              

    The answer is very likely technology change, rather than climate change.  

    Such technology, though, was not available back at the advent of the U.S. Signal Service’s tropical monitoring in the 1870s. Without these sophisticated tools, meteorologists in earlier times not only had difficulty in forecasting tropical cyclones, but they also struggled in even knowing if a system existed over the open ocean. In the late 19th and early 20th Centuries, the only resource hurricane forecasters could use to monitor tropical cyclones were weather station observations provided via telegraph. Such an approach is problematic for observing – much less forecasting – tropical cyclones that develop and spend most of their lifecycle over the open ocean. Here’s a timeline of critical technologies that have dramatically improved tropical meteorologists’ ability to “see” and monitor tropical cyclones:

    The upshot of all of these advances in the last century is much better identification of the existence of tropical cyclones and their strongest winds (or what meteorologists call “Intensity”). So, the further one goes back in time, the more tropical cyclones (and portions of their life cycle) were missed, even for systems that may have been a major hurricane. 

     HURDAT2 – our Atlantic hurricane database – is an extremely helpful record which is a “by-product” of NHC’s forecasting operations, but it is very deficient for determining real long-term trends.

    In research that the lead author had investigated (Chris Landsea and company in 2010’s Journal of Climate), we discovered that weak, short-lived (lasting less than or equal to two days) named storms – aka “Shorties” – had shown a dramatic increase in occurrence over time. There were only about one a year in HURDAT2 up until the 1920s, about 3 per year from the 1930s to the 1990s, and jumping up to around 5 per year since 2000.

    Of the 30 named storms in 2020, seven were Shorties and a few more were just longer than two days in duration. Of these seven Shorties, four are very unlikely to have been “named” before around 2000: Dolly, Edouard, Omar, and Alpha. These and other weak, short-lived systems since 2000 have been observed and recognized as tropical storms due to new tools available to forecasters including scatterometersAdvanced Microwave Sounding Units, the Advanced Dvorak Technique, and the Cyclone Phase Space diagrams


    The resulting final time series shows tremendous variability, with highest values of 23 in 2020 and 20 in 1887 and 2005, and lowest values of 2 in 1914, and 3 in 1925, 1982, and 1994. Overall, there remains a modest upward trend in the database over the entire time series superimposed with quasi-cyclic variations seen in the ACE data as was discussed earlier: higher activity in the late 1800s, mid-1900s, and from the mid-1990s onward, but lower activity in the early 1900s, and in the 1970s to early 1990s. These cycles of higher and lower activity have been linked to a natural phenomenon called the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) (see paper by Stan Goldenberg, Chris Landsea, and colleagues in 2001’s Science). Recent controversial research, however, is calling into question whether the AMO actually exists (see paper by Michael Mann and company in 2021’s Science). Regardless of the validity of the AMO, the bottom line is that the doubling in the number of named storms over a century is very likely due to technology change, not natural or man-made climate change.





  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    What's Morocco got to do with the Sahel?

    You're missing the basic physics of maximum temperatures. The hottest temperatures occur with hot, dry and vegetation-free ground (i.e. desert) or with very localised topographical effects, such as in Canada this year. In general, with vegetation cover, maxima are several degrees lower. With lower temperatures come lower dewpoints and hence wbt. You can't have it both ways.

    At 50c air temperature, RH needs only to reach 35% to become deadly

    "Only". That requires a dewpoint of 30. Air with already higher dewpoint is harder to heat up to critical levels. 50 °C with a dewpoint of 30 °C is not physically possible in 99.9% of locations in the world.

    So again, desertification is bad, but so is the alternative. It seems nothing any of "us people" state will do anything to curb you ott and irrational fear.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I've already posted this paper before, but WB 35c has already been seen locally and is happening more often now than the models predicted would occur by 2050

    "Climate models project the first 35°C TW occurrences by the mid-21st century. However, a comprehensive evaluation of weather station data shows that some coastal subtropical locations have already reported a TW of 35°C and that extreme humid heat overall has more than doubled in frequency since 1979. Recent exceedances of 35°C in global maximum sea surface temperature provide further support for the validity of these dangerously high TW values. We find the most extreme humid heat is highly localized in both space and time and is correspondingly substantially underestimated in reanalysis products. Our findings thus underscore the serious challenge posed by humid heat that is more intense than previously reported and increasingly severe."

    You underestimate how much energy we're adding to the oceans and the air. As the SSTs get hotter, the risks of WB35c events get higher too, along with the other impacts such as more powerful TCs and devastating rainfall events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Bad flooding in New York overnight, but despite what I just listened to on RTÉ radio earlier, the rainfall was not of record proportions. A max of 8.92" in New York and 9.91" in New Jersey.

    NEW YORK...
    STATEN ISLAND                        8.92                    
    BROOKLYN                             7.76                    
    MIDTOWN MANHATTAN                    7.49                    
    FORDHAM                              7.38                    
    NEW YORK CITY, CENTRAL PARK          7.19                    
    FLUSHING                             6.90                    
    NEW YORK, LA GUARDIA AIRPORT         6.89                    
    HARLEM                               6.00                    
    MONTGOMERY, ORANGE COUNTY AIRPORT    5.24                    
    WHITE PLAINS                         4.28                    
    HARTFORD, HARTFORD-BRAINARD AIRPORT  2.73                    
    ALBANY INTL AIRPORT                  1.06                    
    ISLIP, LONG ISLAND MAC ARTHUR APT    0.81 
    
    NEW JERSEY...
    RINGOES                              9.91                    
    CARTERET                             9.31                    
    HOPEWELL TWP. 2.4 NW                 9.13                    
    WARREN TWP 1.3 W                     8.94                    
    HARRISON                             8.61                    
    WALDWICK                             8.59                    
    NEWARK                               8.44                    
    PASSAIC                              8.43                    
    NEWARK INTL AIRPORT                  7.81                    
    LINDEN                               6.72                    
    BRIDGEWATER 3 NNW                    6.58                    
    WHITEHOUSE STATION                   6.42                    
    TRENTON, MERCER COUNTY AIRPORT       5.41 
    
    
    

    Below are the storm record storm totals from the period 1900-2020 for the New York/Newark area (source). Again, the worst were back in the good ole days of ideal climate.

    The state records are 24.00" (1940) and 11.70" (Labor Day, 1935) for New York and New Jersey, respectively.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    How do you equate a handful of subtropical coastal locations under hot sea surface temperatures with a large area of sub-Saharan African vegetation? The paper you quoted itself states that these WBTs only occur in conjunction with very specific sea conditions, and the last time I checked the Sahel region spans across the centre of a fairly large continent (Africa). 

    So again, where will all this excess moisture magically appear from? Do you think vegetation is a net producer of water vapour (producing more water than falls in rainfall)?

    Post edited by Gaoth Laidir on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    I only saw this post now. Yes, record rainfall at the Newark and LaGuardia stations but at Central Park (closest to the flooded Subway stations that so many networks are showing) it was the 5th highest daily total. When was the highest? September 23rd, 1882 (8.28").




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    The rainfall records I referred to were in the per hour rainfall not the 24 hour total.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Some strange but interesting conditions were set in selection of datapoints in that paper. Looks like a total of 337 extreme TW occurrences were disregarded because they occured early in the time period chosen for the study. No reason is given why. Maybe it's because it would reduce the longterm trend...

    We additionally eliminate HadISD station data that fail any one of the following meteorological and climatological tests. Tests are listed in the order implemented, with the fraction of HadISD 31+°C readings removed at each successive step shown in parentheses:

    ....


    3. A TW extreme occurring in 1979–1993 is greater than the maximum in 2003–2017 (67/10,138).

    ...


    10. A TW extreme before 2001 is higher than any value recorded since 2001 (270/8864).




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,855 ✭✭✭Nabber


    All around the world?

    In limited select areas. Notably wealthy countries. 1 weather station per 54,000sqkm that is an average. Antarctic is 264,000kmsqd. With over whelming majority in USA and EU.

    So not all over the globe, just in select areas. Failing to determine expected rainfall is also disingenuous to any one reading. Break it down, what did we expect naturally in the rain fall? Was 98% natural and 2% man made.


    We are once again we are looking at first world weather events.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Maybe the observer was on the lash and mistook the gauge for a pot? I've heard drunk observers were a common problem in the 1880s!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,238 ✭✭✭Oneiric 3


    Of course it would be impossible to obtain such data, but it would be interesting to see if long term records (regarding any parameter) are broken with more frequency today that they would have in bygone years at established long term stations across the globe, and if so, are more of these stations breaking records during any one event today than in the past.

    And it is an interesting point you make about the 'first world' as big weather events that occur within the Anglosphere always seem to be sensationalised more than which happen outside of this zone. All about what brings in the most money. It's about the story, not whether that story is true on not.

    https://twitter.com/frankcorder/status/1432156322317967368?s=20

    New Moon



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    There is a media focus on the disasters suffered by wealthy nations, but these events are happening all around the world

    the most recent IPCC report covers this. Please read it



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Maybe they did, or maybe Gaoth Laidir did a bait and switch. Record breaking Hourly rainfall indicates an extremely intense rainfall event. 24 hour rainfall totals indicate longer duration events. The consequences of over 3 inches of rain falling in an hour were devastating flash floods, the same rain falling over 12 hours gives the residents a chance to escape to higher ground and some of the rain to be channeled away.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    These statistics have been widely studied in the literature and are summarized in the IPCC reports. If you’re interested please read the studies or the IPCC report.

    Much better than randomly or cherry-picking individual stations



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Awaiting the top scientists to come out with guns blazing and condemn these media shenanigans...




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,597 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    What media shenanigans?

    The 'false balance' of the media was a construction of the PR industry. It used to be that the press would read the report, and the journalist would report the facts as they understand them.

    Step in the lawyers for the Tobacco industry, suddenly there are all of these so called 'experts' from think tanks and 'institutes' who are funded by the PR companies on behalf of their clients to write articles in the media casting doubt on the science and demanding that the media reports 'both sides' of the story

    These same tactics, often by the same individuals, were employed again to argue that 'there is no evidence that CFCs were depleting the Ozone layer, and that 'It is not proven that sulphur Dioxide causes acid rain'

    That 'there is no evidence that adding lead to petrol is toxic to humans' etc etc etc etc

    They have been doing it for more than a half a century, industry puts out fake experts quoting fake studies and 'questioning' the real independent science in order to cast doubt on whatever issue their employers pay them to question.

    Finally the media has collectively decided that they no longer need to add in the PR inspired line 'There is no way to definitely link any one weather event to climate change but...' and are finally attributing climate change to these increasingly extreme weather events.


    The media reports the news, often in a sensational way because this makes them money and drives advertising. It is not the job of the Scientific community to police the media. The scientists publish the studies and review them. The IPCC goes into detail to outline how much of the increased weather extremes are due to AGW. If you want to know these figures, read the papers they publish, or the IPCC report. Do not just point at bad reporting in the media and use that as an excuse to ignore the mounting scientific data and the conclusions from those data.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Did you look at the twitter link posted by Oneric3?

    If I were a highly qualified scientist looking at these churnalist twats sensationalising the message I was trying to convey, in fact I'd go as far as saying they're undermining the message, I'd be cutting them down to size. But then again when you've a guaranteed income from the taxpayer, PR doesn't matter - just go with cap-in-hand to the government and voila the bank account gets topped up.

    It's an attitude problem with the climate change scientists, put out ludicrously false predictions and never get called to account over it, allow the media to pi$$ all over their message, subtly alter past figures (homogenised weather data) and still get funded regardless. This attitude of "we're untouchable" is arrogant.

    You bring up big tobacco and big oil as if to say well, both sides are at it. So if you expect dishonesty to be part and parcel of this, expect kick back and people calling out the blatant dishonesty.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    Akrasia wrote:

    It is not the job of the Scientific community to police the media


    Reality:

    Media creates false balance on climate science, study shows | University of California

    “It’s not just false balance; the numbers show that the media are ‘balancing’ experts — who represent the overwhelming majority of reputable scientists — with the views of a relative handful of non-experts,” UC Merced professor LeRoy Westerling said. 


    Climate Feedback – A Scientific Reference to Reliable Information on Climate Change

    WHAT WE DO

    Climate Feedback is a worldwide network of scientists sorting fact from fiction in climate change media coverage. Our goal is to help readers know which news to trust.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,219 ✭✭✭Gaoth Laidir


    It's Channel 4 so I'm not going to give them the satisfaction of a click but if it's about the oil industry then what do you expect? They will lobby and duck and dive just like the tobacco industry did. I'm not sure what that's got to do with the science?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,913 ✭✭✭Danno


    Let's let you in on a little secret, the greens are just as dirty when it comes to lobbying. The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

    You think big wind-farm green industry hasn't prostituted itself around the corridors of power?

    RTÉ Investigates - Standards in Public Office (rte.ie)

    I'm sure you remember that episode of Prime Time? One of the rare times the €160 licence fee was actually put to good use.



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,328 ✭✭✭Banana Republic 1


    Three politicians there were Fine Gael, Fianna Fáil and an independent, no Green Party politicians at all as far as I can see, so I don’t know what your on about.



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