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US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

Sandor Clegane

Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal

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Montage of Feck

Corruption and tribalism.

[Deleted User]

The Taliban or those fighting under their banner have decades of experience and are hardened fighters. Afghanistan isn't getting better anytime soon unfortunately.

Odhinn

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal

Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.

AbusesToilets

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal

The inherent inability of the Afghans to organise themselves into any semblance of a functional state.

biko

Hopefully Biden will finish what Trump started.
US can't keep policing the rest of the world.
It should never have been invaded in the first place.

Sandor Clegane

Deleted User wrote: »

The Taliban or those fighting under their banner have decades of experience and are hardened fighters. Afghanistan isn't getting better anytime soon unfortunately.

Odhinn wrote: »

Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.

Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?

Dr. Bre

That’s why the Russians left - you can’t win in Afghan

igCorcaigh

Must the Taliban have some significant level of domestic support in order for them to still exist?

Where do they get their weapons from?

[Deleted User]

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?

Ya, it's strange and the real answer is probably very complex. Maybe the Taliban have a real belief in what they are fighting for and the Afghan government/military are there to earn a wage and aren't as committed.

The plan for after the withdrawal is already falling apart and the Taliban are currently making more gains.

[Deleted User]

Are they not leaving a few hundred behind to guard diplomatic offices and to provide security for the international opium trade at the airport?

biko

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Where do they get their weapons from?

US and Russia.
And possibly Pakistan (Khyber Pass).

Larbre34

Within one year (or more likely, a lot sooner) Afghanistan will be as if the last 20 years never happened.

Seems more than a little wasteful of 200,000 lives (combatants and civilians on both sides) and >$1 trillion dollars (foreign coalition military commitment costs only).

The only thing to be done with Afghanistan, is to cut it off, and put as best a lid on it as possible with remote signal intelligence and weapons strikes when deemed necessary.

Hopefully some day, the Afghan people will as a large majority choose a path that doesn't involve self-destruction and medieval thinking.

FileNotFound

Tribalism and a lack of progress.

You have to show people something if you want their support.

Hopefully they don't just capitulate.

Gatling

biko wrote: »

.
It should never have been invaded in the first place.

They absolutely should have , Iraq was the biggest mistake the issue with Afghanistan was too many chiefs and not enough Indians and an actual end goal , they built schools hospitals and infrastructure and essentially walked away ,
After what happened with the Russians the country completely went back several centuries to as pointed out to nothing tribalism and corruption ,most of the big names in government have ties to Taliban forces controling the opium trade ,
The US forces hands tied and blindfolded and expected to win against an ideological belief and heroine

Guy:Incognito

Odhinn wrote: »

Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.

Or maybe they're just not very good at invading and occupying places and should concentrate on getting their own house in order instead?

TefalBrain

Taliban commander to US journalist about a year after the invasion in 2002. "You have the clock and we have forever"

Sandor Clegane

TefalBrain wrote: »

Taliban commander to US journalist about a year after the invasion in 2002. "You have the clock and we have forever"

Thing about these kinds of people is you'll always have some replacement ready when one gets killed, it's a never ending cycle, the only hope they had was training the Afghan government/military to defend themselves which obviously didn't work.

If they couldn't get there **** together in 20 years then it's a hopeless cause.

joseywhales

Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.

joseywhales

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Thing about these kinds of people is you'll always have some replacement ready when one gets killed, it's a never ending cycle, the only hope they had was training the Afghan government/military to defend themselves which obviously didn't work.

If they couldn't get there **** together in 20 years then it's a hopeless cause.

I mean why train people who will inevitably become your enemy?

[Deleted User]

The graveyard of empires.

Mimon

joseywhales wrote: »

Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.

Ourselves?

FileNotFound

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

The graveyard of empires.

Should be the new name to be fair.

[Deleted User]

Their rapidly expanding population isn't going to help the situation either

joseywhales

Mimon wrote: »

Ourselves?

Sure it only took a millennium and the still have to deal with the RA

[Deleted User]

Sandor Clegane wrote: »

Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?

Their casualty rates were very high
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/world/asia/afghanistan-security-casualties-taliban.html

Good read, may explain alot

fash

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Must the Taliban have some significant level of domestic support in order for them to still exist?

Where do they get their weapons from?

Some domestic support, some support from Pakistan/ISI.

BluePlanet

I read an interesting book by this guy Ahmed Rashid, on the rise of the Taliban (before Sept 11).
In a recent interview he said the US had no actual plan in Afghanistan.
Says the Taliban are a little more cultured today and using digital media to their advantage (whereas before they had tried to ban media).
Sounds like they've evolved a little.
But he makes the point that we still don't know what they actually want; just what they don't want.

https://en.qantara.de/content/interview-with-afghanistan-expert-ahmed-rashid-the-americans-were-completely-devoid-of-any

TheValeyard

joseywhales wrote: »

Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.

While not converted to the invaders culture. South Korea would be a success in holding back an aggressive and oppressive northern State. But definitely a huge US impact on Korean culture and tastes.

I'd also argue that West Germany to some extent had similar conditions post WW2.

But unless USA was willing to commit to a total war situation for Afghanistan, I do not see how they were going to win. And you're probably right, some US values do not travel well to that part of the world, for better or worse.

TheValeyard

MeepMeep2021 wrote: »

The graveyard of empires.

Good title.

Although pretty sure Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan were very successful there.

Unless I'm mistaken I think it's the British interventions in Afghanistan while trying to control their Indian Frontier is what gave rise to the stories that you cannot conquer that region. Took three wars to realise that.

Gatling

Current reports are saying the Afghan army are fleeing to other countries in the north rather than actually putting up a fight ,it seems many army outposts are poorly equipped and supplied ,most places the Taliban have taken without firing a single shot
With the latest push the Taliban now control 130 + districts out of 412