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US and Nato withdrawal from Afghanistan...- threadbanned users in OP

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  • 04-07-2021 11:03pm
    #1
    Sandor Clegane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭


    Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

    How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal

    Threadbanned users
    jmreire
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Post edited by Beasty on


«134567…75

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    #2
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,507 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Corruption and tribalism.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #3
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The Taliban or those fighting under their banner have decades of experience and are hardened fighters. Afghanistan isn't getting better anytime soon unfortunately.


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    #4
    Odhinn
    Registered Users Posts: 8,017 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

    How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal




    Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.


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    #5
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,990 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Incredible to think that after being in Afghanistan for 20 years that we are possibly on the verge of having the Taliban back in power, by all accounts the government is on the brink of collapse in a matter of months or even weeks...

    How is it possible that after a 20 year occupation by Nato/US that the Afghan government/military was so ill equipped?

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/04/afghanistan-americas-longest-war-ends-amid-accusations-of-betrayal

    The inherent inability of the Afghans to organise themselves into any semblance of a functional state.


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    #6
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Hopefully Biden will finish what Trump started.
    US can't keep policing the rest of the world.
    It should never have been invaded in the first place.


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    #7
    Sandor Clegane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The Taliban or those fighting under their banner have decades of experience and are hardened fighters. Afghanistan isn't getting better anytime soon unfortunately.
    Odhinn wrote: »
    Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.

    Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?


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    #8
    Dr. Bre
    Registered Users Posts: 7,555 ✭✭✭Dr. Bre


    That’s why the Russians left - you can’t win in Afghan


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    #9
    igCorcaigh
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,112 Mod ✭✭✭✭igCorcaigh


    Must the Taliban have some significant level of domestic support in order for them to still exist?

    Where do they get their weapons from?


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    #10
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?

    Ya, it's strange and the real answer is probably very complex. Maybe the Taliban have a real belief in what they are fighting for and the Afghan government/military are there to earn a wage and aren't as committed.

    The plan for after the withdrawal is already falling apart and the Taliban are currently making more gains.


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Are they not leaving a few hundred behind to guard diplomatic offices and to provide security for the international opium trade at the airport? :D


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    #12
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Where do they get their weapons from?
    US and Russia.
    And possibly Pakistan (Khyber Pass).


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    #13
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,839 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    Within one year (or more likely, a lot sooner) Afghanistan will be as if the last 20 years never happened.

    Seems more than a little wasteful of 200,000 lives (combatants and civilians on both sides) and >$1 trillion dollars (foreign coalition military commitment costs only).

    The only thing to be done with Afghanistan, is to cut it off, and put as best a lid on it as possible with remote signal intelligence and weapons strikes when deemed necessary.

    Hopefully some day, the Afghan people will as a large majority choose a path that doesn't involve self-destruction and medieval thinking.


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    #14
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    Tribalism and a lack of progress.

    You have to show people something if you want their support.

    Hopefully they don't just capitulate.


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    #15
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    biko wrote: »
    .
    It should never have been invaded in the first place.

    They absolutely should have , Iraq was the biggest mistake the issue with Afghanistan was too many chiefs and not enough Indians and an actual end goal , they built schools hospitals and infrastructure and essentially walked away ,
    After what happened with the Russians the country completely went back several centuries to as pointed out to nothing tribalism and corruption ,most of the big names in government have ties to Taliban forces controling the opium trade ,
    The US forces hands tied and blindfolded and expected to win against an ideological belief and heroine
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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    #16
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Odhinn wrote: »
    Due to the invasion of Iraq they took the Americans took their eye off the ball in Afghanistan, allowing the taleban to regroup and reestablish themselves.

    Or maybe they're just not very good at invading and occupying places and should concentrate on getting their own house in order instead?


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    #17
    TefalBrain
    Registered Users Posts: 710 ✭✭✭TefalBrain


    Taliban commander to US journalist about a year after the invasion in 2002. "You have the clock and we have forever"


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    #18
    Sandor Clegane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,080 ✭✭✭Sandor Clegane


    TefalBrain wrote: »
    Taliban commander to US journalist about a year after the invasion in 2002. "You have the clock and we have forever"

    Thing about these kinds of people is you'll always have some replacement ready when one gets killed, it's a never ending cycle, the only hope they had was training the Afghan government/military to defend themselves which obviously didn't work.

    If they couldn't get there **** together in 20 years then it's a hopeless cause.


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    #19
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

    India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.


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    #20
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Thing about these kinds of people is you'll always have some replacement ready when one gets killed, it's a never ending cycle, the only hope they had was training the Afghan government/military to defend themselves which obviously didn't work.

    If they couldn't get there **** together in 20 years then it's a hopeless cause.

    I mean why train people who will inevitably become your enemy?


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    #21
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 1,263 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The graveyard of empires.


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    #22
    Mimon
    Registered Users Posts: 1,474 ✭✭✭Mimon


    joseywhales wrote: »
    Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

    India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.

    Ourselves?


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    #23
    FileNotFound
    Registered Users Posts: 2,004 ✭✭✭FileNotFound


    MeepMeep2021 wrote: »
    The graveyard of empires.

    Should be the new name to be fair.


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    #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Their rapidly expanding population isn't going to help the situation either


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    #25
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    Mimon wrote: »
    Ourselves?

    Sure it only took a millennium and the still have to deal with the RA


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    #26
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Sandor Clegane wrote: »
    Still, it's incredible to think that after being there for so long the the Afghan government military are so lacking, 20 years is a long time, you'd think they could of trained the Afghans better, surely they had a plan for when/after they withdrew?

    Their casualty rates were very high
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/09/21/world/asia/afghanistan-security-casualties-taliban.html

    Good read, may explain alot


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    #27
    fash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,271 ✭✭✭fash


    igCorcaigh wrote: »
    Must the Taliban have some significant level of domestic support in order for them to still exist?

    Where do they get their weapons from?
    Some domestic support, some support from Pakistan/ISI.


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    #28
    BluePlanet
    Registered Users Posts: 2,346 ✭✭✭BluePlanet


    I read an interesting book by this guy Ahmed Rashid, on the rise of the Taliban (before Sept 11).
    In a recent interview he said the US had no actual plan in Afghanistan.
    Says the Taliban are a little more cultured today and using digital media to their advantage (whereas before they had tried to ban media).
    Sounds like they've evolved a little.
    But he makes the point that we still don't know what they actually want; just what they don't want.

    https://en.qantara.de/content/interview-with-afghanistan-expert-ahmed-rashid-the-americans-were-completely-devoid-of-any


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    #29
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    joseywhales wrote: »
    Remind me, what was the last country to be invaded, successfully converted to the invader's culture and then thrived independently?

    India maybe? Australia for sure but that was utter domination.

    While not converted to the invaders culture. South Korea would be a success in holding back an aggressive and oppressive northern State. But definitely a huge US impact on Korean culture and tastes.

    I'd also argue that West Germany to some extent had similar conditions post WW2.

    But unless USA was willing to commit to a total war situation for Afghanistan, I do not see how they were going to win. And you're probably right, some US values do not travel well to that part of the world, for better or worse.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #30
    TheValeyard
    Registered Users Posts: 12,222 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    MeepMeep2021 wrote: »
    The graveyard of empires.

    Good title.

    Although pretty sure Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan were very successful there.

    Unless I'm mistaken I think it's the British interventions in Afghanistan while trying to control their Indian Frontier is what gave rise to the stories that you cannot conquer that region. Took three wars to realise that.

    Fcuk Putin. Glory to Ukraine!



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    #31
    Gatling
    Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Current reports are saying the Afghan army are fleeing to other countries in the north rather than actually putting up a fight ,it seems many army outposts are poorly equipped and supplied ,most places the Taliban have taken without firing a single shot
    With the latest push the Taliban now control 130 + districts out of 412
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




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