F1 2021 Round 9 : Austrian GP

jv2000 · 04-07-2021 8:06pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Why would they have complained? Norris was ahead of both Mercs and lost a place to Bottas because of the penalty during the pitstop. Surely they'd prefer to the Mercs to get the least amount of points.

Whilst I agree with this I suspect in the heat of the moment they were not thinking strategically about how Norris could impede the Mercs..... that was Perez's job.

AMKC · 04-07-2021 8:58pm

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.
I thought the 3 racing incident penaltys were harsh. Let them race. Danial Riccairdo done good. Just needs to improve in his qualifying and he could do better.
Delighted for Lando Norris but like someone else said that really should have been 2nd.
Time for Kimi to retire. When I seem that incident at first I thought oh no not Vettel again but on another view from above it was most definitely Kimi that caused it.
I really hope he does the right thing and retires soon.

flazio · 04-07-2021 9:12pm

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1411767796174835719?s=19

LollipopJimmy · 04-07-2021 9:29pm

AMKC wrote: »

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.
I thought the 3 racing incident penaltys were harsh. Let them race. Danial Riccairdo done good. Just needs to improve in his qualifying and he could do better.
Delighted for Lando Norris but like someone else said that really should have been 2nd.
Time for Kimi to retire. When I seem that incident at first I thought oh no not Vettel again but on another view from above it was most definitely Kimi that caused it.
I really hope he does the right thing and retires soon.

Would people really expect Alonso to let Russell have the point?

This is it · 04-07-2021 9:36pm

AMKC wrote: »

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.

I can't imagine any race driver wants to be handed a point like that, would be very patronising in my opinion. Earn the point. Today he raced really well but Alonso took him fair and square so Russell misses out.

Probes · 04-07-2021 9:38pm

I thought all the penalties for pushing cars off the track were deserved. You can’t race together if a driver is allowed to run you off the road. I want to see those overtakes that=at are side by side action for 3 corners in a row. It’s hard enough getting these cars alongside for an overtake, there must be room to allow for that.

Hijpo · 04-07-2021 9:38pm

Toto says they will blitz the field at silverstone, finish 1 and 2 ahead of everyone by 30 seconds.
And I wouldn't be surprised.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 9:39pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Would people really expect Alonso to let Russell have the point?

Career suicide if any driver did that.

flazio · 04-07-2021 9:55pm

Re: Russell vs Alonso. I'll let this footage do the talking.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1411715675958226947?s=19

El_Duderino 09 · 04-07-2021 9:58pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

Career suicide if any driver did that.

Nice idea from a fairytale perspective, but it doesn't even enter into the conversation in terms of any driver's actually considering giving another driver a point (without team orders, of course)

Frank Bullitt · 04-07-2021 10:09pm

Red Bull have found their edge now, 3 out of 3 wins for Max.

Hard to see them slipping up now, they just seem so comfortable.

flazio · 04-07-2021 10:17pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Red Bull have found their edge now, 3 out of 3 wins for Max.

Hard to see them slipping up now, they just seem so comfortable.

Long way to go yet. IIRC Seb was leading the championship most of the first half of 2017 before it all came apart.
This may well be the first time in the hybrid era that Lewis is more than a race win away from leading the championship.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 10:52pm

flazio wrote: »

Long way to go yet. IIRC Seb was leading the championship most of the first half of 2017 before it all came apart.
This may well be the first time in the hybrid era that Lewis is more than a race win away from leading the championship.

Yeah it's too early to say if Red Bull's advantage will carry over to all remaining tracks - Silverstone will be a big test in that regard. Looking forward to seeing how this Sprint Race idea goes though - sprint quali is on from 6pm - 7pm on the Friday according to this link, so not too bad a time for anyone in work.

Here's a clip of that "it's champagne" moment mentioned earlier in the thread. Norris is great craic. :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWT-scFfb0o

flazio · 04-07-2021 11:04pm

I forgot about the sprint race points. Verstappen is 32 points ahead. If by some disaster (positive Covid test for example) he can't participate in Silverstone, if Lewis wins the sprint he gets 3 points, gets the win on Sunday, that's 25 and he's up to 28 closing the gap to 4. 3 if he gets fastest lap (is there a fastest lap point in the sprint? That could bring it down to 2)
Either way, Lewis can't leave Silverstone as championship leader.

This is it · 04-07-2021 11:05pm

Norris is brilliant, not just quick in the car

his remark yesterday after going off at turn 1 was very funny

quokula · 05-07-2021 12:08pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The problem is that there NEEDS to be a marker laid down, otherwise pushing people off track trying to defend will become the norm and overtaking will become completely impossible; It'd become like racing 12 years old on the F1 games, "say behind or be bashed off of the track".

I agree with this. When people say "the stewards should just let them race", these rules actually exist for the express purpose of letting them race, as without them it would basically be impossible for the driver behind to make a move without being barged off.

I did think it was harsh, but as soon as it happened I was anticipating Norris would likely get a penalty as that seemed it would be consistent with similar moves in the past, and leaving a car's width once the other driver gets alongside is a pretty standard rule.

Don't understand all the hate Perez seems to have received over it, neither he or his team pushed for Norris to be penalised (in fact the penalty effectively hurt Red Bull in the constructors as it aided their main rivals)

Perez also apologised for the moves on Leclerc, saying that he did try to leave space but couldn't get enough turn in on worn tyres (you see him having to correct a slide in one of the replays)

It would be nice to see more transparency and a much more explicit definition of the criteria, but the reality is that no two incidents will ever be exactly the same so there will always be a little bit of wiggle room.

A proper track boundary would solve a lot of these problems of course, as the definition of a "car's width" gets a little bit shaky when you allow having just one wheel touching the far side of the kerb to count as being on track. If the gravel was pushed right up to the kerb then drivers wouldn't take so many liberties.

Hijpo · 05-07-2021 1:05pm

quokula wrote: »

I agree with this. When people say "the stewards should just let them race", these rules actually exist for the express purpose of letting them race, as without them it would basically be impossible for the driver behind to make a move without being barged off.

I did think it was harsh, but as soon as it happened I was anticipating Norris would likely get a penalty as that seemed it would be consistent with similar moves in the past, and leaving a car's width once the other driver gets alongside is a pretty standard rule.

Don't understand all the hate Perez seems to have received over it, neither he or his team pushed for Norris to be penalised (in fact the penalty effectively hurt Red Bull in the constructors as it aided their main rivals)

Perez also apologised for the moves on Leclerc, saying that he did try to leave space but couldn't get enough turn in on worn tyres (you see him having to correct a slide in one of the replays)

It would be nice to see more transparency and a much more explicit definition of the criteria, but the reality is that no two incidents will ever be exactly the same so there will always be a little bit of wiggle room.

A proper track boundary would solve a lot of these problems of course, as the definition of a "car's width" gets a little bit shaky when you allow having just one wheel touching the far side of the kerb to count as being on track. If the gravel was pushed right up to the kerb then drivers wouldn't take so many liberties.

I suppose the issue is how do you leave a cars width for someone going around the outside when your car is making its way to the outside either by you trying to keep the racing line or understeer etc. You can't be expected to slow and let them by because you will be a sitting duck for the cats behind.
Dodgy situation.

Joeface · 05-07-2021 1:19pm

I did believe that these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

quokula · 05-07-2021 2:11pm

Joeface wrote: »

I did believe it was these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

Yeah I noticed that too, Alonso put it on the outside a couple of times and Russell always gave him space to do so.

jv2000 · 05-07-2021 5:38pm

Joeface wrote: »

I did believe that these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

Alonso and Russel was much later in the race so fuel loads could have been a factor as well. The Norris incident was unfortunate but the rules are the rules and he didn't leave space, I suppose their is an argument around Perez never being ahead of Norris during the move. Perez on the other hand.... we should not forget, this is Perez, he has a reputation for hard racing and has had many incidents over the years. Always a chance of contact when overtaking Perez. Leclerc was slightly ahead in both moves before being pushed wide, definite penalty IMO.

F1 2021 Round 9 : Austrian GP

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