F1 2021 Round 9 : Austrian GP

Burkie1203 · 04-07-2021 4:48pm

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

What he do?

Russell came up to him and told he was sweating a lot

Lando replied "it's champagne"

Burkie1203 · 04-07-2021 4:48pm

8 drivers summoned for not slowing under double waved yellows

El_Duderino 09 · 04-07-2021 5:04pm

klose wrote: »

First sprint race isn't it?

Qualifying on Friday which sets the start order for the sprint race on Saturday. The sprint race sets the order for the race on Sunday.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 5:11pm

2011 wrote: »

Yes, but there is a real chance that we might see Russel in the same car.
That would be interesting. I imagine Mercedes would be concerned that Russel may not be willing to play the number 2 role like Bottas does.

It's an interesting dilemma Merc have regarding that second seat. It was a no brainer to sign Lewis up for another couple of years but do they stick with Bottas who (fortunately for the team but unfortunately for us) can't really trouble Lewis over a full season, or go with the young gun who's surely desperate to get out of that Williams and show everyone what he can do. We got a glimpse of it last year when Lewis was out with covid.

Would Merc allow him to get racy with Lewis? If not then what would be the point signing him. Or maybe they would allow it once there was no punting each other off too often - ultimately Toto just wants Merc winning both titles I'm guessing.

Personally I'd like Russell to get a shot in a top team.

Joeface wrote: »

Is there any chance Redbull had leaned on the FIA for the Norris move believing Perez would get back on Par. And the penalty would move Norris out of the way for them ,only for it to back fire twice. It's not unlike any time Toto has been on to them for his driver's for blue flags etc. I mean it would have been worth it only Perez never really got on terms today .

Even though Horner said he saw it as a racing incident you'd have to imagine the team were on to race control to complain about it - they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. But yeah, it then back fired on them with Checo doing the exact same thing, twice. I see he ended up in 6th behind Sainz, just fell short of building that 10sec gap.

My first thought on those turn 4 incidents was Checo and LeClerc were stupid to try go around the outside - too much of a risk and much better places to overtake. Would not fancy being a steward at some of these races.

klose · 04-07-2021 5:26pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Qualifying on Friday which sets the start order for the sprint race on Saturday. The sprint race sets the order for the race on Sunday.

Yeah it should be an interesting spectacle, could throw up a few surprises (hopefully)

klose · 04-07-2021 5:30pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

Would Merc allow him to get racy with Lewis? If not then what would be the point signing him. Or maybe they would allow it once there was no punting each other off too often - ultimately Toto just wants Merc winning both titles I'm guessing.

Personally I'd like Russell to get a shot in a top team.

Pie in the sky stuff but it would be interesting to see if Russell hit the ground running and was out pacing Lewis, that would be a real headache for Toto to manage

El_Duderino 09 · 04-07-2021 6:08pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

It's an interesting dilemma Merc have regarding that second seat. It was a no brainer to sign Lewis up for another couple of years but do they stick with Bottas who (fortunately for the team but unfortunately for us) can't really trouble Lewis over a full season, or go with the young gun who's surely desperate to get out of that Williams and show everyone what he can do. We got a glimpse of it last year when Lewis was out with covid.

Would Merc allow him to get racy with Lewis? If not then what would be the point signing him. Or maybe they would allow it once there was no punting each other off too often - ultimately Toto just wants Merc winning both titles I'm guessing.

Personally I'd like Russell to get a shot in a top team.
...

The point of signing him even if they dont allow him to challenge Lewis would be succession planning to have a top driver in the team when Lewis retires after his next 2 years.

I'd say they'll have to let them race. No point picking a winner before they even know how they measure up against each other. They might let them race and if one shoots ahead on points or one is in championship contention, then favour that driver. But I doubt they will sign Russell as no.2 before they even know how fast he is compared to Lewis.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 6:18pm

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The point of signing him even if they dont allow him to challenge Lewis would be succession planning to have a top driver in the team when Lewis retires after his next 2 years.

I'd say they'll have to let them race. No point picking a winner before they even know how they measure up against each other. They might let them race and if one shoots ahead on points or one is in championship contention, then favour that driver. But I doubt they will sign Russell as no.2 before they even know how fast he is compared to Lewis.

Agreed, they'd have to let them race to see where Russell is at and manage the situation from there. Not sure if it was on BBC or where I read it but I thought it was interesting Lewis not wanting to comment on Russell as a potential team mate next year - 'he's not my team mate, Bottas is and we get on great' was the gist of what he said.

quokula · 04-07-2021 6:28pm

The problem Merc have is that Hamilton will throw his toys out of the pram publicly in the way he spread conspiracy theories against the team when Rosberg was beating him, and in the way he published private telemetry data to social media when Button was beating him.

Toto has been on record multiple times that he doesn’t want a repeat of Rosberg and they’ve had ample opportunities to hire a stronger driver than Bottas but refused to. I don’t see how it would be any different with Russell, he already showed at Bahrain last year that he’s capable of doing just as much with the car as Lewis is, so I just can’t see the team risking bringing him in with their current philosophy of sacrificing the second driver to benefit Hamilton.

JeffKenna · 04-07-2021 6:45pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

It's an interesting dilemma Merc have regarding that second seat. It was a no brainer to sign Lewis up for another couple of years but do they stick with Bottas who (fortunately for the team but unfortunately for us) can't really trouble Lewis over a full season, or go with the young gun who's surely desperate to get out of that Williams and show everyone what he can do. We got a glimpse of it last year when Lewis was out with covid.

Would Merc allow him to get racy with Lewis? If not then what would be the point signing him. Or maybe they would allow it once there was no punting each other off too often - ultimately Toto just wants Merc winning both titles I'm guessing.

Personally I'd like Russell to get a shot in a top team.

Even though Horner said he saw it as a racing incident you'd have to imagine the team were on to race control to complain about it - they wouldn't be doing their job if they didn't. But yeah, it then back fired on them with Checo doing the exact same thing, twice. I see he ended up in 6th behind Sainz, just fell short of building that 10sec gap.

My first thought on those turn 4 incidents was Checo and LeClerc were stupid to try go around the outside - too much of a risk and much better places to overtake. Would not fancy being a steward at some of these races.

Why would they have complained? Norris was ahead of both Mercs and lost a place to Bottas because of the penalty during the pitstop. Surely they'd prefer to the Mercs to get the least amount of points.

jv2000 · 04-07-2021 8:06pm

JeffKenna wrote: »

Why would they have complained? Norris was ahead of both Mercs and lost a place to Bottas because of the penalty during the pitstop. Surely they'd prefer to the Mercs to get the least amount of points.

Whilst I agree with this I suspect in the heat of the moment they were not thinking strategically about how Norris could impede the Mercs..... that was Perez's job.

AMKC · 04-07-2021 8:58pm

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.
I thought the 3 racing incident penaltys were harsh. Let them race. Danial Riccairdo done good. Just needs to improve in his qualifying and he could do better.
Delighted for Lando Norris but like someone else said that really should have been 2nd.
Time for Kimi to retire. When I seem that incident at first I thought oh no not Vettel again but on another view from above it was most definitely Kimi that caused it.
I really hope he does the right thing and retires soon.

flazio · 04-07-2021 9:12pm

https://twitter.com/SkySportsF1/status/1411767796174835719?s=19

LollipopJimmy · 04-07-2021 9:29pm

AMKC wrote: »

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.
I thought the 3 racing incident penaltys were harsh. Let them race. Danial Riccairdo done good. Just needs to improve in his qualifying and he could do better.
Delighted for Lando Norris but like someone else said that really should have been 2nd.
Time for Kimi to retire. When I seem that incident at first I thought oh no not Vettel again but on another view from above it was most definitely Kimi that caused it.
I really hope he does the right thing and retires soon.

Would people really expect Alonso to let Russell have the point?

This is it · 04-07-2021 9:36pm

AMKC wrote: »

That was a great race. Lots of action. Was gutted for Geaoge Russell. So close yet so far from a point. Alonso could have passed him and then just backed off before the line and let him have it.

I can't imagine any race driver wants to be handed a point like that, would be very patronising in my opinion. Earn the point. Today he raced really well but Alonso took him fair and square so Russell misses out.

Probes · 04-07-2021 9:38pm

I thought all the penalties for pushing cars off the track were deserved. You can’t race together if a driver is allowed to run you off the road. I want to see those overtakes that=at are side by side action for 3 corners in a row. It’s hard enough getting these cars alongside for an overtake, there must be room to allow for that.

Hijpo · 04-07-2021 9:38pm

Toto says they will blitz the field at silverstone, finish 1 and 2 ahead of everyone by 30 seconds.
And I wouldn't be surprised.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 9:39pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

Would people really expect Alonso to let Russell have the point?

Career suicide if any driver did that.

flazio · 04-07-2021 9:55pm

Re: Russell vs Alonso. I'll let this footage do the talking.
https://twitter.com/F1/status/1411715675958226947?s=19

El_Duderino 09 · 04-07-2021 9:58pm

Andrew76 wrote: »

Career suicide if any driver did that.

Nice idea from a fairytale perspective, but it doesn't even enter into the conversation in terms of any driver's actually considering giving another driver a point (without team orders, of course)

Frank Bullitt · 04-07-2021 10:09pm

Red Bull have found their edge now, 3 out of 3 wins for Max.

Hard to see them slipping up now, they just seem so comfortable.

flazio · 04-07-2021 10:17pm

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Red Bull have found their edge now, 3 out of 3 wins for Max.

Hard to see them slipping up now, they just seem so comfortable.

Long way to go yet. IIRC Seb was leading the championship most of the first half of 2017 before it all came apart.
This may well be the first time in the hybrid era that Lewis is more than a race win away from leading the championship.

Andrew76 · 04-07-2021 10:52pm

flazio wrote: »

Long way to go yet. IIRC Seb was leading the championship most of the first half of 2017 before it all came apart.
This may well be the first time in the hybrid era that Lewis is more than a race win away from leading the championship.

Yeah it's too early to say if Red Bull's advantage will carry over to all remaining tracks - Silverstone will be a big test in that regard. Looking forward to seeing how this Sprint Race idea goes though - sprint quali is on from 6pm - 7pm on the Friday according to this link, so not too bad a time for anyone in work.

Here's a clip of that "it's champagne" moment mentioned earlier in the thread. Norris is great craic. :pac:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWT-scFfb0o

flazio · 04-07-2021 11:04pm

I forgot about the sprint race points. Verstappen is 32 points ahead. If by some disaster (positive Covid test for example) he can't participate in Silverstone, if Lewis wins the sprint he gets 3 points, gets the win on Sunday, that's 25 and he's up to 28 closing the gap to 4. 3 if he gets fastest lap (is there a fastest lap point in the sprint? That could bring it down to 2)
Either way, Lewis can't leave Silverstone as championship leader.

This is it · 04-07-2021 11:05pm

Norris is brilliant, not just quick in the car

his remark yesterday after going off at turn 1 was very funny

quokula · 05-07-2021 12:08pm

H3llR4iser wrote: »

The problem is that there NEEDS to be a marker laid down, otherwise pushing people off track trying to defend will become the norm and overtaking will become completely impossible; It'd become like racing 12 years old on the F1 games, "say behind or be bashed off of the track".

I agree with this. When people say "the stewards should just let them race", these rules actually exist for the express purpose of letting them race, as without them it would basically be impossible for the driver behind to make a move without being barged off.

I did think it was harsh, but as soon as it happened I was anticipating Norris would likely get a penalty as that seemed it would be consistent with similar moves in the past, and leaving a car's width once the other driver gets alongside is a pretty standard rule.

Don't understand all the hate Perez seems to have received over it, neither he or his team pushed for Norris to be penalised (in fact the penalty effectively hurt Red Bull in the constructors as it aided their main rivals)

Perez also apologised for the moves on Leclerc, saying that he did try to leave space but couldn't get enough turn in on worn tyres (you see him having to correct a slide in one of the replays)

It would be nice to see more transparency and a much more explicit definition of the criteria, but the reality is that no two incidents will ever be exactly the same so there will always be a little bit of wiggle room.

A proper track boundary would solve a lot of these problems of course, as the definition of a "car's width" gets a little bit shaky when you allow having just one wheel touching the far side of the kerb to count as being on track. If the gravel was pushed right up to the kerb then drivers wouldn't take so many liberties.

Hijpo · 05-07-2021 1:05pm

quokula wrote: »

I agree with this. When people say "the stewards should just let them race", these rules actually exist for the express purpose of letting them race, as without them it would basically be impossible for the driver behind to make a move without being barged off.

I did think it was harsh, but as soon as it happened I was anticipating Norris would likely get a penalty as that seemed it would be consistent with similar moves in the past, and leaving a car's width once the other driver gets alongside is a pretty standard rule.

Don't understand all the hate Perez seems to have received over it, neither he or his team pushed for Norris to be penalised (in fact the penalty effectively hurt Red Bull in the constructors as it aided their main rivals)

Perez also apologised for the moves on Leclerc, saying that he did try to leave space but couldn't get enough turn in on worn tyres (you see him having to correct a slide in one of the replays)

It would be nice to see more transparency and a much more explicit definition of the criteria, but the reality is that no two incidents will ever be exactly the same so there will always be a little bit of wiggle room.

A proper track boundary would solve a lot of these problems of course, as the definition of a "car's width" gets a little bit shaky when you allow having just one wheel touching the far side of the kerb to count as being on track. If the gravel was pushed right up to the kerb then drivers wouldn't take so many liberties.

I suppose the issue is how do you leave a cars width for someone going around the outside when your car is making its way to the outside either by you trying to keep the racing line or understeer etc. You can't be expected to slow and let them by because you will be a sitting duck for the cats behind.
Dodgy situation.

Joeface · 05-07-2021 1:19pm

I did believe that these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

quokula · 05-07-2021 2:11pm

Joeface wrote: »

I did believe it was these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

Yeah I noticed that too, Alonso put it on the outside a couple of times and Russell always gave him space to do so.

jv2000 · 05-07-2021 5:38pm

Joeface wrote: »

I did believe that these were racing incidents and the penalties at that point were harsh , but as soon as Alonso and Russell were Racing around the same bends , especially where Perez got his second penalty , Russell was able leave enough space for both to race properly on old tires and pushing at the same time . So that ruled out the old tires excuse for me . Perez may be able say the dirty air didn't help but it is clear he didn't leave space.

Alonso and Russel was much later in the race so fuel loads could have been a factor as well. The Norris incident was unfortunate but the rules are the rules and he didn't leave space, I suppose their is an argument around Perez never being ahead of Norris during the move. Perez on the other hand.... we should not forget, this is Perez, he has a reputation for hard racing and has had many incidents over the years. Always a chance of contact when overtaking Perez. Leclerc was slightly ahead in both moves before being pushed wide, definite penalty IMO.

F1 2021 Round 9 : Austrian GP

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