Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

AMKC · 28-06-2021 05:41PM

flazio wrote: »

Just catching up on C4 highlights, interesting to see in the background of Norris getting interviewed Toto Wolff and Carlos Sainz Jr having quite an in depth conversation with a Netflix boom over them.

Good spot. I will have to check that out again.

TheQ_Man · 28-06-2021 09:05PM

AMKC · 28-06-2021 11:01PM

Lol I did see that caption on Facebook but did not see your man been tossed out the window lol.

TheQ_Man · 29-06-2021 06:53AM

AMKC wrote: »

Lol I did see that caption on Facebook but did not see your man been tossed out the window lol.

There’s 2 or 3 versions of that going around. The part where Bottas is sent out the window is a new one. Hilarious though :pac:

El_Duderino 09 · 29-06-2021 08:07AM

Interesting report that audi and Porsche might be joining the engine manufacturers meeting in Saturday to discuss the 2025 engine rules.

F1i.com: Porsche and Audi to join F1 engine meeting at Red Bull Ring.
https://f1i.com/news/410492-porsche-and-audi-to-join-f1-engine-meeting-at-red-bull-ring.html

ELM327 · 29-06-2021 09:48AM

They are also leaving FE at the end of the year too.

29-06-2021 09:52AM

Are the people who go to the meetings also the people who decide whether to go to the meetings? Nice jaunt down the Autobahn on company money, slight conflict of interest. :pac:

29-06-2021 09:53AM

El_Duderino 09 · 29-06-2021 10:01AM

OSI wrote: »

They were part of the discussions for the hybrid design weren't they?

Porsche certainly were.

The whole thing confuses me as both Audi and Porsche are part of the Volkswagen Group. But the both took part in FE as separate teams. I suppose they are marketed to different markets.

Polar101 · 29-06-2021 10:11AM

eviltimeban wrote: »

Kimi didn't "retire" though, did he? He just took a few years out as he didn't have a drive.

He also wanted to try rally driving. He finished 10th in the WRC 2010 and 2011 drivers' championships.

donspeekinglesh · 29-06-2021 12:57PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The whole thing confuses me as both Audi and Porsche are part of the Volkswagen Group. But the both took part in FE as separate teams. I suppose they are marketed to different markets.

They always compete separately. When they were in LMP1 they were both spending F1 team amounts on very different engine and hybrid technologies.
FE is so cheap it's a rounding error in their marketing budget. LMdH is a bit more expensive, but again they'll be competing against each other.

El_Duderino 09 · 29-06-2021 10:33PM

Interesting to see Hamilton and Wolff both talking about the Red Bull new engine and the additional performance they have gained. The engines are homologated so they can't bring an upgraded engine, but they can make changes to improve reliability. And if they have better reliability then they can run the engine harder without worrying about it breaking.

So the suggestion is that they have gained performance through the reliability and Lewis and Wolff are stirring the pot in the hopes that the FIA will look into it for them. And they are also suggesting that the rear wing is still bending (but i presume it's passing the tests). Hard to know if they're genuinely looking for the FIA to do something or if they're getting their excuses in early for not winning the championship this year.

Mercedes has said they're not working on the car again this year. They're all about 2022 now. RB supposedly still has 20% of it's people on the 2021 car. So Mercedes probably just needs to weather the storm this year and resume dominating the field again next year.

Hijpo · 29-06-2021 11:06PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Interesting to see Hamilton and Wolff both talking about the Red Bull new engine and the additional performance they have gained. The engines are homologated so they can't bring an upgraded engine, but they can make changes to improve reliability. And if they have better reliability then they can run the engine harder without worrying about it breaking.

So the suggestion is that they have gained performance through the reliability and Lewis and Wolff are stirring the pot in the hopes that the FIA will look into it for them. And they are also suggesting that the rear wing is still bending (but i presume it's passing the tests). Hard to know if they're genuinely looking for the FIA to do something or if they're getting their excuses in early for not winning the championship this year.

Mercedes has said they're not working on the car again this year. They're all about 2022 now. RB supposedly still has 20% of it's people on the 2021 car. So Mercedes probably just needs to weather the storm this year and resume dominating the field again next year.

James Allison announced they will be bringing new parts and small engine improvements in the next few races. Stuff that was already in the R&D phase before switching focus to next year.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mercedes-insists-new-parts-coming-for-its-2021-f1-car/

quokula · 29-06-2021 11:13PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Interesting to see Hamilton and Wolff both talking about the Red Bull new engine and the additional performance they have gained. The engines are homologated so they can't bring an upgraded engine, but they can make changes to improve reliability. And if they have better reliability then they can run the engine harder without worrying about it breaking.

So the suggestion is that they have gained performance through the reliability and Lewis and Wolff are stirring the pot in the hopes that the FIA will look into it for them. And they are also suggesting that the rear wing is still bending (but i presume it's passing the tests). Hard to know if they're genuinely looking for the FIA to do something or if they're getting their excuses in early for not winning the championship this year.

Mercedes has said they're not working on the car again this year. They're all about 2022 now. RB supposedly still has 20% of it's people on the 2021 car. So Mercedes probably just needs to weather the storm this year and resume dominating the field again next year.

As is usually the case, very little that comes out of Toto or Lewis’ mouth has much relationship with the truth, it’s just constant PR spin and **** stirring. Mercedes are still developing their car and have new parts coming. There is zero evidence that Red Bull’s engine is anything but homologated and legal, they’ve just been running a slimmer wing for a couple of races which you can tell just by looking at the car. Same goes for the flexing, the tests have been made more stringent which had no impact on Red Bull and there have been videos that demonstrate Mercedes have just as much flex.

Jordan 199 · 30-06-2021 01:21AM

F1-Concept-2021-Porsche-Sean-Bull-169FullWidth-6367cbdf-1783082.jpg

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2021 07:22AM

quokula wrote: »

As is usually the case, very little that comes out of Toto or Lewis’ mouth has much relationship with the truth, it’s just constant PR spin and **** stirring. Mercedes are still developing their car and have new parts coming. There is zero evidence that Red Bull’s engine is anything but homologated and legal, they’ve just been running a slimmer wing for a couple of races which you can tell just by looking at the car. Same goes for the flexing, the tests have been made more stringent which had no impact on Red Bull and there have been videos that demonstrate Mercedes have just as much flex.

I presume they're passing all the tests. But Mercedes got the FIA to change the test on the rear wing once already by complaining about it, so I don't blame them for continuing to complain about it in the hope that they will change the tests again.

The rear wing flex is like the tyre pressures. The rules don't say how much the wing can flex during the race, it just says they have to pass the load test before the race. The FIA had changed the test parameters numerous times on tyre pressure tests before the race and I suppose Mercedes would like them to change the test on flexing wings again too.

Likewise with the Honda engine, if they have managed to squeeze a bit more out of the engine due to some reliability changes, who could blame them for wanting the FIA to look into it?

It looks like sour grapes for them to want to level the playing field after years of unchallenged dominance, but that's the sport I suppose.

TCP/IP · 30-06-2021 07:43AM

I used to admire what Merc has done over the last seven seasons even though I am not a fan but the way they think they have a divine right to be number 1 constantly really gets on my wick.
For the sport watching what RedBull has done this year and the great racing, we have had shows that having the same team win over and over again is just bad for the sport.

Joeface · 30-06-2021 02:50PM

Three teams have issues with the Sprint Race qualifying now . Alpine , Aston & McLaren . The Clutch they use will not survive the race weekend in that format . They normally change the clutch after FP2 on Friday . but now it seems the Sprint Race is 100KM + normal Race approx. 300km they are only rated for 400km and the rules are they cannot change the Clutch between Qualifying and Race .

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2021 03:13PM

Joeface wrote: »

Three teams have issues with the Sprint Race qualifying now . Alpine , Aston & McLaren . The Clutch they use will not survive the race weekend in that format . They normally change the clutch after FP2 on Friday . but now it seems the Sprint Race is 100KM + normal Race approx. 300km they are only rated for 400km and the rules are they cannot change the Clutch between Qualifying and Race .

Is there a limit on the number of clutches they can use per season?

Hopefully they can amend those rules to allow changes for reliability purposes this season. After that, the teams need to develop clutch parts to meet demands. But the sprint races were a late in being agreed this year.

Joeface · 30-06-2021 03:16PM

Don't think there was a limit as they were changing them after the Friday sessions . consumable part

El_Duderino 09 · 30-06-2021 04:19PM

Joeface wrote: »

Don't think there was a limit as they were changing them after the Friday sessions . consumable part

Yeah fair enough. You'd always wonder when there are 3 Mercedes teams, whether Mercedes is actually the team that wants a rule change. If thenclitxhes are very expensive then your think the poorer teams would want additional money. But these things work out in funny ways. In some ways, the cost cap means that the poorer teams don't mind about these changes at all and the bigger teams with bigger budgets (and need to find more savings), more disposable parts are more hampered by the additional restrictions.

Interesting to see what comes of this objection by those 3 teams.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-07-2021 07:05AM

Slight change to the sprint race set-up. Previously l, the pole position stat would go to the driver who win Friday qualifying but Ross Brawn announced that it will now go to the Sprint race winner.

Motorsport.com: F1 sprint winner will be officially credited with pole position.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sprint-race-winner-officially-credited-f1-pole-position/6623026/amp/

Pen Rua · 01-07-2021 08:07AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Slight change to the sprint race set-up. Previously l, the pole position stat would go to the driver who win Friday qualifying but Ross Brawn announced that it will now go to the Sprint race winner.

Motorsport.com: F1 sprint winner will be officially credited with pole position.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/sprint-race-winner-officially-credited-f1-pole-position/6623026/amp/

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

El_Duderino 09 · 01-07-2021 08:10AM

Pen Rua wrote: »

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

Ross Brawn said it was a change to the format. Previously the pole stat would go to the winner of Friday quali. Now the stat will go to the sprint race winner instead.

quokula · 01-07-2021 09:47AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I presume they're passing all the tests. But Mercedes got the FIA to change the test on the rear wing once already by complaining about it, so I don't blame them for continuing to complain about it in the hope that they will change the tests again.

The rear wing flex is like the tyre pressures. The rules don't say how much the wing can flex during the race, it just says they have to pass the load test before the race. The FIA had changed the test parameters numerous times on tyre pressure tests before the race and I suppose Mercedes would like them to change the test on flexing wings again too.

Likewise with the Honda engine, if they have managed to squeeze a bit more out of the engine due to some reliability changes, who could blame them for wanting the FIA to look into it?

It looks like sour grapes for them to want to level the playing field after years of unchallenged dominance, but that's the sport I suppose.

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

quokula · 01-07-2021 09:53AM

Pen Rua wrote: »

This was always going to be the case. Quali on Friday sets the grid for the Sprint Race on Saturday which sets the grid for the Race on Sunday.

The clarification in the last day or so is that the winner of the Sprint Race will be credited with a Pole Position, while the pole sitter for the Sprint Race itself will not.

It is an interesting one, if sprint races become a regular thing it could change how those stats are viewed. Because you had people who were renowned qualifying specialists like Senna, who had pole position stats off the chart compared to race wins. Then you had people with sublime racecraft like Schumacher, who spent much of his career (outside the obvious years) in less competitive cars and didn't score many poles, but scored many more wins with his brilliance on a Sunday.

Most drivers fall somewhere in the middle of course, but it feels like there will no longer be a distinction in the stats if this were to become the norm.

duploelabs · 01-07-2021 09:56AM

quokula wrote: »

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

I know it's a strawman argument, but the bending of rules and lobbying to keep them on their sides by many teams have been there since the inception of formula 1. It's not like Mercedes have been the first, and certainly won't be the last

El_Duderino 09 · 01-07-2021 10:03AM

quokula wrote: »

If there's one thing Mercedes could never be accused of it's wanting a level playing field.

They lobbied hard to get the rules stacked in their favour for the whole hybrid era, there is finally a car that's just about matching them on performance (both Mercedes outqualify Perez routinely so I don't buy the argument that the Red Bull has an advantage beyond Verstappen driving the wheels off the thing) and they're doing everything they can to get the FIA to make unjustified mid-season rule changes to slow their opponents down so they can dominate again.

Here's Hamilton saying he wants the new Technical Directive on bendy wings to "level the playing field". It's not a term that was in their vocabulary since 2014, but they're getting behind the concept now that they're not dominating.

And I don't blame them for doing it. It's the sport, as duploelabs says. It's just galling to see a team make such a huge change from having to defend its own innovations to complaining about another team's innovations.

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/87789/hamilton-hopes-fia-rule-maybe-that-will-level-the-playing-field.html

duploelabs · 01-07-2021 10:14AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Here's Hamilton saying he wants the new Technical Directive on bendy wings to "level the playing field". It's not a term that was in their vocabulary since 2014, but they're getting behind the concept now that they're not dominating.

And I don't blame them for doing it. It's the sport, as duploelabs says. It's just galling to see a team make such a huge change from having to defend its own innovations to complaining about another team's innovations.

On the second complaining point, that's how the self-regulation model in formula one works. Sure they have the official inspectors, but all the teams have access to timing data of all the drivers (and as well as studying the cars first hand and photos) and thus, if they spot something funky going on with their opponent's cars, they'll report it.
To frame it as complaining is a bit harsh within these regulatory guidelines and usually used by someone who is guilty of some offence

muckwarrior · 01-07-2021 10:45AM

I don't blame Mercedes for doing what they can to keep Red Bull in check. As a team, that's their job.

However, for Hamilton, as someone who's benefited from having a string of the most dominant cars the sport has ever seen, to start whining about stuff like Red Bull's speed and talking about fans getting bored... well, the word hypocrite doesn't even begin to cover it.

Formula 1 2021 - General Discussion Thread (Read 1st post rules)

Comments