Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

robbiezero · 18-06-2021 09:10AM

Stormyteacup wrote: »

It’s odd that you would pick out one post in a few pages of fairly balanced posts and decide it shows thread has lost the plot.

These days I sometimes have to check whether I’m in relaxations thread or main Covid thread. I reckon the most devoutly in agreement with any and all government/NPHET recommendations are becoming worried by the increasing challenging of the reasons for our slow pace of reopening.

Its funny that the people that usually post about the "thread losing the plot" are the ones posting non-stop on the thread. If the thread has lost the plot take a look at who the top posters on the thread are.

18-06-2021 09:10AM

Boggles wrote: »

The only thing that is grim is my Friday hangover.

Drank and dined with about 250 people last.

Not a doom-monger in sight.

The Irish people will not be found wanting.

Graham · 18-06-2021 09:13AM

ecoli3136 wrote: »

Delta variant.

Not sure what "keeping an eye out" achieves (this was said to someone who said they try to avoid following Covid news)

I'd watch the Delta variant figures, if they don't increase significantly I'd expect the next stage of reopening to go ahead as planned.

It's fairly straightforward to understand.

klose · 18-06-2021 09:13AM

The government and a lot of people are still scared about another post Christmas situation arising where they go against NPHETs recommendation and the arse fell out of everything, of course we won't see anything near that scale again and it was the perfect storm per se for another outbreak.

Minister 1 "we don't agree with NPHETs recommendations and should re open and relax restrictions ASAP"

Hoolahan " ye disregarded our recommendations for December and look how that turned out"

End of conversation.

Government basically don't "have the balls" to go against recommendations for another while yet I feel despite all the positive news going around at the moment

Boggles · 18-06-2021 09:18AM

ecoli3136 wrote: »

The Irish people will not be found wanting.

Various nationalities out enjoying themselves.

I can't see how that can be a negative, but I'm sure there will be some effort to turn it into one.

Graham · 18-06-2021 09:18AM

klose wrote: »

Government basically don't "have the balls" to go against recommendations for another while yet I feel despite all the positive news going around at the moment

Recommendations are we ease restrictions further in another couple of weeks.

You think we should ignore those recommendations?

_Kaiser_ · 18-06-2021 09:20AM

Graham wrote: »

I'd watch the Delta variant figures, if they don't increase significantly I'd expect the next stage of reopening to go ahead as planned.

It's fairly straightforward to understand.

Delta variant.. so what?

I'm serious... the vaccines are effective against it. It might spread more but is no more deadly than other variants, and those actually most vulnerable to Covid are almost all vaccinated anyway now.

So again, so what?

Graham · 18-06-2021 09:22AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Delta variant.. so what?

I'm serious... the vaccines are effective against it. It might spread more but is no more deadly than other variants, and those actually most vulnerable to Covid are almost all vaccinated anyway now.

So again, so what?

Not everyone is vaccinated.

Delta variant I still hospitalising people, younger people. I'm happy enough we're not just pretending it doesn't exist.

robbiezero · 18-06-2021 09:27AM

klose wrote: »

The government and a lot of people are still scared about another post Christmas situation arising where they go against NPHETs recommendation and the arse fell out of everything, of course we won't see anything near that scale again and it was the perfect storm per se for another outbreak.

Minister 1 "we don't agree with NPHETs recommendations and should re open and relax restrictions ASAP"

Hoolahan " ye disregarded our recommendations for December and look how that turned out"

End of conversation.

Government basically don't "have the balls" to go against recommendations for another while yet I feel despite all the positive news going around at the moment

To be fair to the Government (much as I hate to be), had we gone with NPHETs recommendations I very much doubt things would have turned out that much differently.

_Kaiser_ · 18-06-2021 09:28AM

Graham wrote: »

Not everyone is vaccinated.

Delta variant I still hospitalising people, younger people. I'm happy enough we're not just pretending it doesn't exist.

People get sick. Some get very sick. Some even die. It's unfortunate, but it's part of life.

The numbers in hospital "with Covid" are even more tiny than they've been generally. Those actually sick to the point of critical/death are lower again. There's no concern that the hospitals are overwhelmed and these people are getting treated.

And no, not everyone is vaccinated, but as I said, those actually at potential significant risk almost entirely are with those who are waiting on second doses being bumped up the list. There will always be outliers however. No-one said this doesn't exist by the way - stop responding to things that no-one said.

So unless you still think we should be restricting almost 5 million people for the benefit of a relative handful, then again... so what?

Stormyteacup · 18-06-2021 09:28AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I agree with you there in fairness, it does sound like a nightmare although I believe germans are allowed one rapid test a week which might make it a bit easier.

Is it really that much of a nightmare though? Where widespread antigen testing is free and easily accessible there will be many workers and students that will be taking them routinely anyway, so not as many as you think would need to do so specifically for socialising or a haircut etc.

Restaurants could operate a walk-in policy, not ideal but should restrictions be tightened re indoor capacity then potential customers take their chances and may have to settle for outdoors. Xs and Os or similar for employees - better than full PUP.

People have proved adaptable throughout. The decision not to use antigen tests was costly for business and travel, but the reason wasn’t that it was too much of a hassle, it was because they wrongly decided it wasn’t safe enough.

Multipass · 18-06-2021 09:35AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Delta variant.. so what?

I'm serious... the vaccines are effective against it. It might spread more but is no more deadly than other variants, and those actually most vulnerable to Covid are almost all vaccinated anyway now.

So again, so what?

They’ve lost the big picture entirely, nobody can be allowed to get mildly ill from Covid (whilst they’re dying on waiting lists for everything else). These people are trying to set ‘rules’ for how fully vaccinated people interact with other fully vaccinated people in their own homes! It’s hard to believe what’s going on.

zackory · 18-06-2021 09:37AM

Boggles wrote: »

Various nationalities out enjoying themselves.

I can't see how that can be a negative, but I'm sure there will be some effort to turn it into one.

It's OK, but far from ideal. In my area a lot of pubs are still closed. If you want to watch the sport over a few pints, it's not ideal either. I doubt many pubs are paying for sky at the moment.

This is ireland, the weather can still be cold and wet, pubs have to pay for staff then it rainsand people leave and wages need to be paid.

Edit. Hit post button too quick..

So ultimately this outdoor dining is a poor stop gap and the novelty of it won't be long wearing off.

And we could have had it since early May too.

Graham · 18-06-2021 09:38AM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

People get sick. Some get very sick. Some even die. It's unfortunate, but it's part of life.

Awesome observation

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The numbers in hospital "with Covid" are even more tiny than they've been generally. Those actually sick to the point of critical/death are lower again. There's no concern that the hospitals are overwhelmed and these people are getting treated.

Deaths/hospitalisations are currently low. Looks like we're planning to keep it that way which I think is a good thing.

The UK are delaying reopening and Portugal are introducing new restrictions because of the Delta variant and the link between it and hospitalisations. I'm pretty glad we're trying to avoid that situation while our vaccination program progresses.

TomSweeney · 18-06-2021 09:43AM

This is a good news story :
https://english.elpais.com/society/2021-06-17/coronavirus-incidence-rate-in-spain-falls-to-lowest-level-since-august.html

But I do find it interesting how the goalposts keep moving ...

The expert explained that while it is unlikely a new wave will overwhelm the healthcare system, the incidence rate could rise and fall, meaning coronavirus restrictions will still be needed.

So remember the initial idea of restrictions were to protect the hospitals, so above he is saying new waves wont slam the healthcare system, yet restrictions will still be needed if cases grow - why ??????????

Are we going to be at a stage where cases of this will be like a cold as practically 100% people are vaccinated and they will bring back
restrictions any time there is a spike in meaningless cases ?

Are they aiming for zero covid here ?

I know it's a Spain centered article but it is relavant everywhere now.

Boggles · 18-06-2021 09:44AM

zackory wrote: »

It's OK, but far from ideal

My steak and pints last night were ideal.

I think you are seeking a ideal that doesn't exist and therefore will be permanently disappointed.

zackory · 18-06-2021 09:45AM

Graham wrote: »

Awesome observation

The UK are delaying reopening and Portugal are introducing new restrictions because of the Delta variant and the link between it and hospitalisations.

Have you any specifics on the link between delta V and hospitalisations please?

zackory · 18-06-2021 09:47AM

Boggles wrote: »

My steak and pints last night were ideal.

Yeah my pint outside in the sun was ideal too.

But I look past myself and see the places closed or virtually empty when it starts raining and turns cold.

I have sympathy for those businesses.

Silentcorner · 18-06-2021 09:48AM

Multipass wrote: »

They’ve lost the big picture entirely, nobody can be allowed to get mildly ill from Covid (whilst they’re dying on waiting lists for everything else). These people are trying to set ‘rules’ for how fully vaccinated people interact with other fully vaccinated people in their own homes! It’s hard to believe what’s going on.

These are the people who only recently declared it possible for Grand parents to hug their Grand kids again....I don't think I have ever witnessed a more demented health policy than that!!!

_Kaiser_ · 18-06-2021 09:49AM

Graham wrote: »

Awesome observation

One you should really take to heart. We haven't discovered a route to immortality through restrictions and lockdowns.

People will still get sick and die, and in greater numbers (even at the height of the pandemic) than from Covid.

Deaths/hospitalisations are currently low. Looks like we're planning to keep it that way which I think is a good thing.

The UK are delaying reopening and Portugal are introducing new restrictions because of the Delta variant and the link between it and hospitalisations. I'm pretty glad we're trying to avoid that situation while our vaccination program progresses.

Personally I don't care what ANY other country does. I'm concerned about what Ireland does. Understandably I think, as I live here.

Deaths/hospitalisations were low last summer too even with no vaccines and even less restrictions (eg: no masks). Funny that. Maybe it's just not that dangerous to the majority in this country? Maybe it's a seasonal disease that restrictions have very little effect on this time of year?

But yes, we have been vaccinating and - again - those identified at potential significant risk have almost entirely received their jabs. We're now progressing to vaccinating perfectly healthy younger people as you know. But the only relevant point in that regard is the first group.

As such, so what if healthy/younger people catch the "delta variant". If they even notice they have it at all the risk to them is extremely low. As those vulnerable ARE now almost entirely covered there is capacity in the health service to treat those outliers.

In other words, as has been the case since this time last year, our response is hugely disproportionate to the actual level of risk involved and doesn't factor in at all the other consequences to society, mental health or indeed other medical issues to name a few.

Lumen · 18-06-2021 09:50AM

zackory wrote: »

Have you any specifics on the link between delta V and hospitalisations please?

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2280832-delta-variant-doubles-risk-of-covid-19-hospitalisations-study-shows/

Boggles · 18-06-2021 09:52AM

zackory wrote: »

But I look past myself and see the places closed or virtually empty when it starts raining and turns cold.

The weather has been spot on, blessed really and judging by the forecast will continue to be.

Chin up.

ArthurDayne · 18-06-2021 09:53AM

Graham wrote: »

Awesome observation

Deaths/hospitalisations are currently low. Looks like we're planning to keep it that way which I think is a good thing.

The UK are delaying reopening and Portugal are introducing new restrictions because of the Delta variant and the link between it and hospitalisations. I'm pretty glad we're trying to avoid that situation while our vaccination program progresses.

I’m not sure if there’s much point sarcastically criticising the poster for his “awesome observation” and then going on to say the part in bold — which is more or less exactly the point the poster was making. What you mean by the part in bold there is that deaths are relatively low. People are still dying from Covid and you don’t appear to be calling for full lockdown to stop it, which would appear to indicate that the deaths are at a level you find to be tolerable. That does sound a bit like a tacit acceptance of the “people die” point you were seemingly getting sarcastic over. Ultimately you’re still accepting the tolerability of people dying right now in exchange for your freedoms — you’re just setting the tolerability at whatever level suits you, or whatever level you are told is OK.

facehugger99 · 18-06-2021 09:58AM

Multipass wrote: »

They’ve lost the big picture entirely, nobody can be allowed to get mildly ill from Covid (whilst they’re dying on waiting lists for everything else). These people are trying to set ‘rules’ for how fully vaccinated people interact with other fully vaccinated people in their own homes! It’s hard to believe what’s going on.

Frightening really.

The Irish people have demonstrated how easily controlled they are and how willing they are to hand over their democratic rights and civil liberties. The infantilism of large swades of the population has been embarrassing to witness - looking for Mammy Holihan to tell them what to do and what to think.

Twenty years of telling ourselves how far we'd come and how much we'd evolved from our parochial past turned out to be mainly bullsh;t.

We are lead by the most spineless generation of politicians in the history of the State, which perfectly reflects the electorate.

We are the cowards of Europe and we will pay for a heavy price for this cowardice over the next number of years.

We have also handed a playbook to future governments on how best to control us - just pump out the fear 24/7 on the State broadcaster and suspend democracy - it's quite easy. People should look at the opinion polls and consider that the party in waiting gets its orders from a cabal of terrorists up in Belfast - nothing to worry about at all.

zackory · 18-06-2021 09:59AM

Boggles wrote: »

The weather has been spot on, blessed really and judging by the forecast will continue to be.

Chin up.

You are showing your true colours now, no sympathy for businesses that are struggling or closed due to the restrictions in place today.

The weather has not been "spot on"

I've seen it myself several times recently, crowd outside a pub, misty squal of rain and nobody left.

Boggles · 18-06-2021 10:00AM

zackory wrote: »

no sympathy for businesses that are struggling or closed due to the restrictions in place today.

Things no one said for 500 Bob?

Allinall · 18-06-2021 10:04AM

facehugger99 wrote: »

Frightening really.

The Irish people have demonstrated how easily controlled they are and how willing they are to hand over their democratic rights and civil liberties. The infantilism of large swades of the population has been embarrassing to witness - looking for Mammy Holihan to tell them what to do and what to think.

.........

.

LOL

Graham · 18-06-2021 10:07AM

ArthurDayne wrote: »

I’m not sure if there’s much point sarcastically criticising the poster for his “awesome observation” and then going on to say the part in bold — which is more or less exactly the point the poster was making. What you mean by the part in bold there is that deaths are relatively low. People are still dying from Covid and you don’t appear to be calling for full lockdown to stop it, which would appear to indicate that the deaths are at a level you find to be tolerable. That does sound a bit like a tacit acceptance of the “people die” point you were seemingly getting sarcastic over. Ultimately you’re still accepting the tolerability of people dying right now in exchange for your freedoms — you’re just setting the tolerability at whatever level suits you, or whatever level you are told is OK.

People are going to die, yes. That is indeed a fact of life.

zackory · 18-06-2021 10:09AM

Boggles wrote: »

Things no one said for 500 Bob?

OK, so you have sympathy for all the closed and struggling businesses. The situation is far from ideal, I am sure you will agree.

18-06-2021 10:10AM

Graham wrote: »

Not everyone is vaccinated.

Delta variant I still hospitalising people, younger people. I'm happy enough we're not just pretending it doesn't exist.

Do you not watch the news Graham? Hospital numbers are dropping everyday so sorry to disappoint you but the delta variant isnt hospitalising younger people

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings