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Will you take an approved COVID-19 vaccine?

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    #1742
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,505 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    jackryan34 wrote: »
    My parents are the only at risk and they are getting the vaccine which protects, my wife had 2 shots of Pfizer.

    Are they really?

    1 in 1000 have facial drooping from Pfizer vaccine

    I'll take my chances with natural infections. Won't post here anymore, can see how this is going

    Well this poster lasted long before going off in a huff. Pretty selfish individual if their wife got vaccinated and they won't.


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    #1743
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,260 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    astrofool wrote: »
    Well this poster lasted long before going off in a huff. Pretty selfish individual if their wife got vaccinated and they won't.
    Doesn't get the whole 'what numbers mean' thing either. Maybe they went away to study?


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    #1744
    jackryan34
    Site Banned Posts: 85 ✭✭jackryan34


    endacl wrote: »
    Poster seems confused about how these statistics work. Up to 1/1000 is an upper limit, with a generous margin, and is essentially meaningless. It suggests a maximum potential incidence of 1/1000. Not a 1/1000 risk. The lower limit is zero. If nobody shows signs of facial drooping, the limit of 'up to 1/1000' is still fulfilled.

    For example, Israel has administered over 3m Pfizer vaccines. Have 3000 cases of facial drooping, beyond would normally be expected in a randomly selected sample of the Israeli population been recorded? No, it hasn't. And a sample size of 'pretty much everybody' is hard to argue with.

    They're not refusing the vaccine because of potential risk. They're refusing because they don't understand how that potential risk is expressed. *


    * I may of course be wrong. Poster in question may well be a professional statistician. I can only work with the information provided. **

    ** Which is how I have no problem understanding what was actually written in the document.

    :D

    You have to balance risk and reward

    The probability of two events occuring in a year to healthy young person by Covid?

    The chance of a young person getting covid at this moment is 2/100 over a year( 300 cases a day x 7 x 52 = 100,000 cases a year/ 5,000,000 people)

    Severe cases in younger people we will say 2% that need hospital treatment?

    2/100

    2/100 x 2/100 = 4/1000 = 1/250

    1/250 chance of severe Covid

    And I have already had Covid, probably make that 1/2500 chance

    Chance of reinfection is miniscule as we know


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    #1745
    jackryan34
    Site Banned Posts: 85 ✭✭jackryan34


    astrofool wrote: »
    Well this poster lasted long before going off in a huff. Pretty selfish individual if their wife got vaccinated and they won't.

    She got for work

    Nursing home had an outbreak and 90% of the staff and residents caught Covid in Jan, they had the 1st dose about 2 weeks before it spread in there, 8 residents died, 2 older staff ended up in hospital on oxygen

    Not blaming the vaccine it hadn't time to work, rollout was too slow


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    #1746
    endacl
    Registered Users Posts: 22,260 ✭✭✭✭endacl


    jackryan34 wrote: »
    You have to balance risk and reward

    The probability of two events occuring in a year to healthy young person by Covid?

    The chance of a young person getting covid at this moment is 2/100 over a year( 300 cases a day x 7 x 52 = 100,000 cases a year/ 5,000,000 people)

    Severe cases in younger people we will say 2% that need hospital treatment?

    2/100

    2/100 x 2/100 = 4/1000 = 1/250

    1/250 chance of severe Covid

    And I have already had Covid, probably make that 1/2500 chance

    Chance of reinfection is miniscule as we know

    Still all about you though, isn't it...


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    #1747
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,505 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    jackryan34 wrote: »
    You have to balance risk and reward

    The probability of two events occuring in a year to healthy young person by Covid?

    The chance of a young person getting covid at this moment is 2/100 over a year( 300 cases a day x 7 x 52 = 100,000 cases a year/ 5,000,000 people)

    Severe cases in younger people we will say 2% that need hospital treatment?

    2/100

    2/100 x 2/100 = 4/1000 = 1/250

    1/250 chance of severe Covid

    And I have already had Covid, probably make that 1/2500 chance

    Chance of reinfection is miniscule as we know

    Yet, because you caught COVID-19, your immunity will drop off faster than the vaccine immunity will, you're not going to be protected against some of the variants and you'll be an infection vector for those around you.

    Millions upon millions of people have had the vaccines, they're definitely safe.


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    #1748
    jackryan34
    Site Banned Posts: 85 ✭✭jackryan34


    endacl wrote: »
    Still all about you though, isn't it...

    I'm sorry if it comes across blunt

    Thread title reads will you get an approved covid vaccine

    I gave my reasons for not getting the vaccine right now

    1.Its not fully approved ( emergency use )
    2.It has side effects
    3.I'm not at risk statistically
    4.I've had covid already

    Look I'll probably get reinfected next year and I won't be asymptomatic, I'll be very sick and it will scare the life out of me to get the vaccine

    My opinion and circumstances will change then

    Good luck everyone, I've derailed this thread enough


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    #1749
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    astrofool wrote: »
    Yet, because you caught COVID-19, your immunity will drop off faster than the vaccine immunity will, you're not going to be protected against some of the variants and you'll be an infection vector for those around you.

    Millions upon millions of people have had the vaccines, they're definitely safe.

    For how long?? since you are dealing in all things definitive?? how do you know this wont be similar to mumps? natural immunity lasts for life and yet vaccinated immunity does not!! isn't covid a new deadly virus, the likes of which we have never seen before? definitely is 100% where's the "Vaccines are 100%" news? I missed that bulletin totally!!


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    #1750
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    jackryan34 wrote: »
    I'm sorry if it comes across blunt

    Thread title reads will you get an approved covid vaccine

    I gave my reasons for not getting the vaccine right now

    1.Its not fully approved ( emergency use )
    2.It has side effects
    3.I'm not at risk statistically
    4.I've had covid already

    Look I'll probably get reinfected next year and I won't be asymptomatic, I'll be very sick and it will scare the life out of me to get the vaccine

    My opinion and circumstances will change then

    Good luck everyone, I've derailed this thread enough

    Personally I wouldn't have been a million miles away from this myself (though I would still have gotten it to help prevent mutations) until the transmission lowering effects of the vaccines because apparent. That's a very important component in the argument for widespread vaccination.


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    #1751
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    rusty cole wrote: »
    For how long?? since you are dealing in all things definitive?? how do you know this wont be similar to mumps? natural immunity lasts for life and yet vaccinated immunity does not!! isn't covid a new deadly virus, the likes of which we have never seen before? definitely is 100% where's the "Vaccines are 100%" news? I missed that bulletin totally!!

    ‘Natural Immunity’ From Covid Is Not Safer Than a Vaccine
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.html

    If you don't even look for it then how can you miss it?


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    #1752
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    ‘Natural Immunity’ From Covid Is Not Safer Than a Vaccine
    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/05/health/covid-natural-immunity.html

    If you don't even look for it then how can you miss it?

    wow the new york times and it's written by a humanities graduate to boot!!!
    oh well if "the experts" who are probably researchers in a university that gets all its funding from the manufacturer and has to sign an NDA declaring all negative findings to said pharma giant only, then yes!! sign me up.

    Gillian Mc Keith is "an expert" Andrew Wakefield is an expert!!! because the media say so?? show the full printed UNBIAS publication for all the trials in a meta analysis with 1 year of going to market, whilst being scrutinized by the Cochrane group for example and I'll agree with you and roll up my sleeve!!

    It took 10 years to get the full trials on Tamiflu and the EMA flat out refused to give them out because they were what??endorsed by "the experts" ?? give over, I'll wait a year!


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    #1753
    runawaybishop
    Registered Users Posts: 9,504 ✭✭✭runawaybishop


    rusty cole wrote: »
    wow the new york times and it's written by a humanities graduate to boot!!!
    oh well if "the experts" who are probably researchers in a university that gets all its funding from the manufacturer and has to sign an NDA declaring all negative findings to said pharma giant only, then yes!! sign me up.

    Gillian Mc Keith is "an expert" Andrew Wakefield is an expert!!! because the media say so?? show the full printed UNBIAS publication for all the trials in a meta analysis with 1 year of going to market, whilst being scrutinized by the Cochrane group for example and I'll agree with you and roll up my sleeve!!

    It took 10 years to get the full trials on Tamiflu and the EMA flat out refused to give them out because they were what??endorsed by "the experts" ?? give over, I'll wait a year!

    Well, in my defense it was 100% better than your references.

    As the vaccines are literally months old its impossible to see if their immunity last longer than natural immunity and trials are underway to see - https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04706390

    However, the CDC recommends you get vaccinated even if you already had covid - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

    If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?
    Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19.

    We do know that the vaccines stop 99.99% of hospitalisations and we also know that people that were naturally infected twice were hospitalised.


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    #1754
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    runawaybishop wrote: »
    Well, in my defense it was 100% better than your references.

    As the vaccines are literally months old its impossible to see if their immunity last longer than natural immunity and trials are underway to see - https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04706390

    However, the CDC recommends you get vaccinated even if you already had covid - https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/facts.html

    If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated with a COVID-19 vaccine?
    Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19.

    We do know that the vaccines stop 99.99% of hospitalisations and we also know that people that were naturally infected twice were hospitalised.


    of the in bold, what was to age and co morbidity?? I guarantee they were old and had a multitude of issues or if young, very limiting health issues. A virus is a virus, though the Flu is an entirely different virus, I don't get jabbed for that every year and I've had one flu in 20 years. I can just as easily carry a flu like typhoid Mary, and infect a person at risk..it's up to everyone to make their own decision, informed consent for a reason I think they call it. There are no definitives in this game, creating a two tier system of the vaccinated Vs the unvaccinated with passports etc will never happen either because business and employers will be sued out of existence. We can hardly enforce a speeding ticket and I was out last week way beyond 5km and not a garda gave a damn,they're tired, underpaid and undermined too lets not forget.
    I do get what your saying so apologies for the thesis, for a finer point, it;s a no from me but my parents will get it, as is their choice I suppose.


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    #1755
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    I'm surprised there's no discussion here on the AstaZeneca vaccine being suspending in Ireland and multiple other countries over concerns about it causing blood clots.

    Hopefully it's just precautionary and there's no link causal link found but it validates people's reservations over taking the vaccine.


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    #1756
    LessOutragePlz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,359 ✭✭✭LessOutragePlz


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    I'm surprised there's no discussion here on the AstaZeneca vaccine being suspending in Ireland and multiple other countries over concerns about it causing blood clots.

    Hopefully it's just precautionary and there's no link causal link found but it validates people's reservations over taking the vaccine.

    Yeah I certainly won't be taking it myself if it is offered to me.


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    #1757
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    I'm surprised there's no discussion here on the AstaZeneca vaccine being suspending in Ireland and multiple other countries over concerns about it causing blood clots.

    Hopefully it's just precautionary and there's no link causal link found but it validates people's reservations over taking the vaccine.

    11 million doses of AZ given in the UK and very few reported instances of blood clots post vaccination.


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    #1758
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Another gift for the anti vaxxer numpties to latch onto.


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    #1759
    astrofool
    Registered Users Posts: 16,505 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Another gift for the anti vaxxer numpties to latch onto.

    If anything, events like this prove the safety of and that there is no conspiracy behind the vaccines. It's how science and medicine is meant to be, cold and emotionless driven by data and smart people.


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    #1760
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    11 million doses of AZ given in the UK and very few reported instances of blood clots post vaccination.

    You should pass this information on to the ten European countries that have postponed the vaccine administrations.

    As I said, there likely will be no link between the blood clot deaths and the vaccine but when a number of European countries have postponed its usage, it shows that there is a possibility that it was the cause and it isn't risk free.


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    #1761
    Quazzie
    Registered Users Posts: 28,883 ✭✭✭✭Quazzie


    Are the blood cloths not all from one particular batch?


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    #1762
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    You should pass this information on to the ten European countries that have postponed the vaccine administrations.

    As I said, there likely will be no link between the blood clot deaths and the vaccine but when a number of European countries have postponed its usage, it shows that there is a possibility that it was the cause and it isn't risk free.

    It doesn't necessarily show that it's a possibility but that the countries are afraid that it is. 30 cases of blood clot after 5 million doses without a definitive link between the vaccine and blood clot.


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    #1763
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    astrofool wrote: »
    If anything, events like this prove the safety of and that there is no conspiracy behind the vaccines. It's how science and medicine is meant to be, cold and emotionless driven by data and smart people.

    The anti-vaxxers don't really pay much heed to that though. They'll be all over this like a rash saying it proves they were right.


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    #1764
    ahnowbrowncow
    Registered Users Posts: 2,565 ✭✭✭ahnowbrowncow


    Alf Veedersane wrote: »
    It doesn't necessarily show that it's a possibility but that the countries are afraid that it is. 30 cases of blood clot after 5 million doses without a definitive link between the vaccine and blood clot.

    I know what you're saying but these countries have decided that there may be a risk with the vaccine and have suspended the use of it until it can be proven otherwise.

    That's exactly what a number of people in this thread have said previously, that there may be unknown risks with this vaccine, and they were shouted down for having such an outlandishly cynical thought process.


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    #1765
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    I know what you're saying but these countries have decided that there may be a risk with the vaccine and have suspended the use of it until it can be proven otherwise.

    That's exactly what a number of people in this thread have said previously, that there may be unknown risks with this vaccine, and they were shouted down for having such an outlandishly cynical thought process.

    The same thing happened 7 months ago when people said their would be vaccine passports. Shouted down and ridiculed


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    #1766
    U2erthy
    Site Banned Posts: 21 ✭U2erthy


    The vaccine in ireland is only 63% efficient and also caused some deaths due to blood clots and trials have been stopped on the astra vaccine in some countries due to these deaths probably less than 1%
    the chinese one has 50% and even more deaths and was stopped in Brazil and peru but restarted as they could not get any other
    The phizer and modena have about 93% rate
    They have also had a few deaths but some people have caught virus after 2 shots
    Getting any vaccine is better than nothing
    But you still need to wear a mask and not eat out or go to bars or church they say if you have vaccine there's less chance of spreading it
    It's better to get vaccine as long term effects for about 10% of people for virus are bad


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    #1767
    Alf Veedersane
    Registered Users Posts: 24,579 ✭✭✭✭Alf Veedersane


    ahnowbrowncow wrote: »
    I know what you're saying but these countries have decided that there may be a risk with the vaccine and have suspended the use of it until it can be proven otherwise.

    That's exactly what a number of people in this thread have said previously, that there may be unknown risks with this vaccine, and they were shouted down for having such an outlandishly cynical thought process.

    I don't think anything is risk-free. I just don't think with the level of data available that there is much of a risk. It may be linked to a batch. My opinion is that if there was an issue with this vaccine in particular that it would have appeared before now.

    That's just my own opinion. I'm not into shouting down people.


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    #1768
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,089 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    The same reports about 15 people having blood clots after receiving the Pfizer vaccine also includes some numbers for other conditions. This includes 21 people filing reports of "crying" and 2 people with broken shoulder blades and another 1 who suffered a broken leg. Similar for the AstraZenica one, but I've forgotten the numbers since scrolling through the report.

    Now its possible that the vaccine was responsible for causing someone's broken leg, but unlikely, but there is no need to get all panicked about broken limbs from vaccines just because of some reports that get filed until they actually do the investigation to see if there is anything in it. Likewise cases of people having blood clots at the same rate, or lower, as in the general population is nothing to get worried about. Just let them do the investigation and try not to get worried about things just because we are getting bombarded with loads of news reports that we'd never normally be bothered with noticing.

    Edit: Just spotted 3 cases of "sunburn" reported and 2 cases of....

    Wait for it....

    People who were non smokers started smoking!?!?!


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    #1769
    ExMachina1000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,748 ✭✭✭ExMachina1000


    robinph wrote: »
    The same reports about 15 people having blood clots after receiving the Pfizer vaccine also includes some numbers for other conditions. This includes 21 people filing reports of "crying" and 2 people with broken shoulder blades and another 1 who suffered a broken leg. Similar for the AstraZenica one, but I've forgotten the numbers since scrolling through the report.

    Now its possible that the vaccine was responsible for causing someone's broken leg, but unlikely, but there is no need to get all panicked about broken limbs from vaccines just because of some reports that get filed until they actually do the investigation to see if there is anything in it. Likewise cases of people having blood clots at the same rate, or lower, as in the general population is nothing to get worried about. Just let them do the investigation and try not to get worried about things just because we are getting bombarded with loads of news reports that we'd never normally be bothered with noticing.

    The blood clots have been rated as "severe " and have lead to brain hemorrhages

    "The Norwegian health agency issued an advisory to anyone under age 50 who had received the AstraZeneca vaccine in the past two weeks, and who feel increasingly unwell with several large blue patches on their skin more than three days after vaccination, to consult doctors or other medical advice as soon as possible"

    Still under investigation though


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    #1770
    AlekSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 14,005 ✭✭✭✭AlekSmart


    U2erthy wrote: »
    The vaccine in ireland is only 63% efficient and also caused some deaths due to blood clots and trials have been stopped on the astra vaccine in some countries due to these deaths probably less than 1%
    the chinese one has 50% and even more deaths and was stopped in Brazil and peru but restarted as they could not get any other
    The phizer and modena have about 93% rate
    They have also had a few deaths but some people have caught virus after 2 shots
    Getting any vaccine is better than nothing
    But you still need to wear a mask and not eat out or go to bars or church they say if you have vaccine there's less chance of spreading it
    It's better to get vaccine as long term effects for about 10% of people for virus are bad

    How do you rate your own immune system generally ?


    Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one.

    Charles Mackay (1812-1889)



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    #1771
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,597 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    lawrencesummers wrote: »
    No

    So, seven months on. Have the people who said they wouldn't get vaccinated seen the light?


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