Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings

charlie14 · 24-05-2021 05:45PM

paw patrol wrote: »

if all the vulnerable and over 70s who want the vaccine have it,.
then what is the excuse?
Sure people will catch covid but the people at risk aren't at risk anymore

Open the niteclubs.

Over 40% have received their first dose of vaccine but only around 15% their second.
14% of our population is aged 65 and older. When you add in those that are also vulnerable due to various medical problems, and those living with cancer you are going to be well over the 20% mark. While most of those vulnerable have received one dose, there is still a large cohort that is not fully vaccinated.

charlie14 · 24-05-2021 05:52PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Facts:
The average age of death is 81-82
Everybody above 80 has been offered the vaccine and has possibly been double jabbed.
Everybody above 70 has been offerded the vaccine.
Everybody above 60 has been offered the vaccine.
Everybody above 50 has been offered the vaccine.
The vulnerable categories under these ages have been offered the vaccine.

Before they stopped publishing the ages, the recent average age of people contracting the virus were in their mid to late 20s. The chances of a healthy person in their 20s being hospitalised with Covid is absolutely miniscule.

As you said, who are we protecting? Everyone that needs to be protected has been protected. Its over.

The vulnerable categories under those ages have been offered one dose. Many have yet to receive their second. There are also many vulnerable that are younger than 50 who have not received a second dose. Nobody is fully vaccinated until after they receive their second dose.

drkpower · 24-05-2021 05:53PM

Graham wrote: »

Nope.

Restrictions are likely to remain in place at decreasing levels until we reach herd immunity.

Nobody has ever suggested otherwise however much you'd like that to be the case.

Very much to the contrary; this was the message and justification for the suspension of civil liberties at the outset; was there an updated justification recently which involved achieving herd immunity?

March 2020: Dr Ronan Glynn, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, Department of Health said:

“If we do nothing, the number of cases will increase rapidly and challenge our healthcare services. We need to flatten the curve – to slow transmission, to reduce the total number of cases and spread the number of cases out over a longer period of time.”

Graham · 24-05-2021 05:56PM

drkpower wrote: »

Very much to the contrary; this was the message and justification for the suspension of civil liberties at the outset; was there an updated justification recently which involved achieving herd immunity?

Nothing in your post suggests it was all over as soon as the vulnerable had been vaccinated.

charlie14 · 24-05-2021 05:58PM

paw patrol wrote: »

No sure the point here tbh

fair play to them taking it , some of my best mates have taken it.
I've no issue once consent is there.

If you mean it's a good thing everybody is taking it, i guess.

But I wasn't into the restrictions since June bank holiday 2020 so it's irrelevant to me. My view (and still is) there were better ways to handle it
Let it rip and spend the money on protecting and supporting the vulnerable
or "killing all the grannys" as my detractors would say...:pac:

If your solution was acquired natural herd immunity, then your detractors got it more or less spot on.
A load of nonsense peddled by some shady people, some grifters, and even some that could not count, that has been tried and shown to have failed.

stephenjmcd · 24-05-2021 05:58PM

Richard Hillman wrote: »

RTE headline is saying Masks until october-November. Well after everyone has been vaccinated and just before winter flu season, so obviously they'll want to push it on until next March.

No sane individual can defend this.

Good old RTE , typical misleading headline.

Donnelly was asked about using any of the measures contained in the emergency powers which now lapse in November. His response was he'd hope to not use any of them. Masks he indicated would be a light touch response for certain settings if required. At no point was it said in absolute fact masks until then, thats RTE putting his comments along with legislation lapsing in Novmeber together and coming up with a headline

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1396839025340788738?s=19

drkpower · 24-05-2021 06:04PM

Graham wrote: »

Nothing in your post suggests it was all over as soon as the vulnerable had been vaccinated.

And what's the evidence for your suggestion that achieving herd immunity was the justification for the suspension of civil liberties?

March 2020: Minister for Health Simon Harris said:

Through Government decisions, the mobilisation of individuals and communities and the leadership of our incredible healthcare professionals, we can have a profound effect on the impact of this outbreak on our people, protect the most vulnerable and save lives.”

Graham · 24-05-2021 06:08PM

drkpower wrote: »

And what's the evidence for your suggestion that achieving herd immunity was the justification for the suspension of civil liberties?

I didn't say it so why would you think I'd have evidence for something you've imagined?

ddarcy · 24-05-2021 06:09PM

charlie14 wrote: »

The vulnerable categories under those ages have been offered one dose. Many have yet to receive their second. There are also many vulnerable that are younger than 50 who have not received a second dose. Nobody is fully vaccinated until after they receive their second dose.

According to the government one dose of AZ means your fully vaccinated. The second just shores this up. All over 70s would have got an mRNA vaccine, so will be nearly complete (only a few stragglers now who aren’t).

So yes there is no reason for lockdown anymore. The vulnerable (those that end up dying or in ICU) have been vaccinated (and according to the government, fully). So unless the government is lying there is no reason to keep us locked down. Won’t suite the lockdown fanatics though.

landofthetree · 24-05-2021 06:15PM

The death figs by age group support the claim that there is little need for the extreme lockdown we still have.

charlie14 · 24-05-2021 06:18PM

ddarcy wrote: »

According to the government one dose of AZ means your fully vaccinated. The second just shores this up. All over 70s would have got an mRNA vaccine, so will be nearly complete (only a few stragglers now who aren’t).

So yes there is no reason for lockdown anymore. The vulnerable (those that end up dying or in ICU) have been vaccinated (and according to the government, fully). So unless the government is lying there is no reason to keep us locked down. Won’t suite the lockdown fanatics though.

I imagine some of the data from the U.K. on the need for 2 doses will have them reconsidering that.

As I said, we have around 15% who have received 2 doses. There is possibly as many as 25% who for various reasons are also highly vulnerable.

silverharp · 24-05-2021 06:21PM

ddarcy wrote: »

According to the government one dose of AZ means your fully vaccinated. The second just shores this up. All over 70s would have got an mRNA vaccine, so will be nearly complete (only a few stragglers now who aren’t).

So yes there is no reason for lockdown anymore. The vulnerable (those that end up dying or in ICU) have been vaccinated (and according to the government, fully). So unless the government is lying there is no reason to keep us locked down. Won’t suite the lockdown fanatics though.

there is, all the people with the mask emojis on Twitter, if there is no lockdown what will happen to them, what will they do?
Listen to Clare Byrne on 250K pa, she knows we are going too fast

24-05-2021 06:24PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

The only way these continued severe restrictions make any sense is if you forget about all the data that we know...

We know who needs protection this virus. It is only a percentage of us.
We know at this time of the year there is little to no risk to anyone.

There will be clusters, it'll be fine.

We know this from the data...but we've to pretend we don't!

From Ivor Cummings’ data.

normanoffside · 24-05-2021 06:24PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

Why do we need to wait and see what happens with hotels and outdoor dining? They're opening indoors in other countries. Can we not take a look at the data from those countries come July and act accordingly? It's not like we're out on our own leading the way with the speed of our reopening.

You'd swear we didn't go through the same rigmarole last summer.

We have learned nothing in a year and are being even more cautious now then we were then and there were no vaccines back then.

Boggles · 24-05-2021 06:25PM

landofthetree wrote: »

The death figs by age group support the claim that there is little need for the extreme lockdown we still have.

IF 15 months in your remedial view of the pandemic is still using the sole metric of mortality.

Boggles · 24-05-2021 06:31PM

normanoffside wrote: »

You'd swear we didn't go through the same rigmarole last summer.

We have learned nothing in a year and are being even more cautious now then we were then and there were no vaccines back then.

I don't remember a million kids being in school last May or the vast majority of the economy open with no travel restrictions?

I might fire up Google and check.

Silentcorner · 24-05-2021 06:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

From Ivor Cummings’ data.

We have all got access to the data...it's reported every day.

You are including his name in the hope that might contaminate it somehow...but we can all see the same data.

He is unclean in your eyes....like a heretic or a blasphemer or some such.

No politician, health bureaucrat or media company can distract us all with the threat of variants you know!!!

24-05-2021 06:36PM

Boggles wrote: »

I don't remember a million kids being in school last May or the vast majority of the economy open with no travel restrictions?

I might fire up Google and check.

No no, the thread has spoken therefore they are right

PTH2009 · 24-05-2021 06:40PM

The mood is shifting i can feel but not in a good way

24-05-2021 06:41PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

We have all got access to the data...it's reported every day.

You are including his name in the hope that might contaminate it somehow...but we can all see the same data.

He is unclean in your eyes....like a heretic or a blasphemer or some such.

No politician, health bureaucrat or media company can distract us all with the threat of variants you know!!!

A charlatan is the word your a looking for. Someone who distorts fact for their own gain.

In reality, things are improving rapidly and we are a few weeks behind the uk.

The whole seasonal schtick does not hold true with any halfways critical look at the data. It’s what certain folk have been pushing for over a year now and been proved wrong at every turn.

Anyone want to guess when flu season is in India?

Silentcorner · 24-05-2021 06:44PM

Deleted User wrote: »

A charlatan is the word your a looking for. Someone who distorts fact for their own gain.

In reality, things are improving rapidly and we are a few weeks behind the uk.

The whole seasonal schtick does not hold true with any halfways critical look at the data. It’s what certain folk have been pushing for over a year now and been proved wrong at every turn.

Anyone want to guess when flu season is in India?

If you think he is a charlatan why did you bring his name into this?

What Irish data are you looking at?

Can you post it so the rest of us can have a look?

24-05-2021 06:48PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

If you think he is a charlatan why did you bring his name into this?

What Irish data are you looking at?

Can you post it so the rest of us can have a look?

https://www.hpsc.ie/

Firstly the trends in Ireland are clearly following a cause and effect pattern. All but the most obtuse fantasists can see so.

Second, why do we believe on this thread that patterns of disease elsewhere are not relevant for Ireland?

Silentcorner · 24-05-2021 06:53PM

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/

Firstly the trends in Ireland are clearly following a cause and effect pattern. All but the most obtuse fantasists can see so.

Second, why do we believe on this thread that patterns of disease elsewhere are not relevant for Ireland?

You are a slippery one....immediately back tracking.

We all know when we got our two six week surges...we all know that outside of that the numbers will be meaningless....

Because we don't need to know patterns of disease elsewhere we have 14 months of data of our own...

It's clear how successful the conditioning has been on some people....they can't see the wood for the trees!!!

24-05-2021 06:58PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

You are a slippery one....immediately back tracking.

We all know when we got our two six week surges...we all know that outside of that the numbers will be meaningless....

Because we don't need to know patterns of disease elsewhere we have 14 months of data of our own...

It's clear how successful the conditioning has been on some people....they can't see the wood for the trees!!!

Where is the back tracking?

And the rest. Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous

Silentcorner · 24-05-2021 07:04PM

Silentcorner wrote: »

The only way these continued severe restrictions make any sense is if you forget about all the data that we know...

We know this from the data...but we've to pretend we don't!

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.hpsc.ie/

Firstly the trends in Ireland are clearly following a cause and effect pattern. All but the most obtuse fantasists can see so.

Second, why do we believe on this thread that patterns of disease elsewhere are not relevant for Ireland?

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the back tracking?

And the rest. Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous

WE can all see the pattern Raind, which is what I stated initially and you tried to undermine what I said....then you admit there is a pattern.

You haven't a clue what you are on about!!! You just don't like people disagreeing with you!

Rayne Wooney · 24-05-2021 07:06PM

Am I correct saying a lot of Europe is already at outdoor reopening stage and moving towards indoor reopening in the next couple of weeks? France (one of the worst hit EU countries?) has set the date for the 30th of June for indoor activities to resume. Portugal, Spain, Denmark have reopened indoor, Slovakia allowing indoor reopening depending on localised county restrictions now, these are just the ones I’ve read about.

By the looks of things our indoor reopening is planned for 5th/12th July or possibly later? Are they going to give us justification for this at all? It’s ludicrous at this stage.

We hit 2 million doses on 13th of May, we’ll be at close to 3 million by 1st of June and over 4 million by Monday the 28th of June. Realistically the country should be reopening on this day at the latest, or this should be the date to work towards and if any disasters happen between now and then the date can be pushed out, the Indian variant isn’t going to have us cracking open each other’s skulls, it’s criminal having the country closed for longer than it needs to be now. Half of the country will be travelling to the north or abroad in June.

Graham · 24-05-2021 07:06PM

Meanwhile, back in the real world some good news.

unimpeded international travel for those who are vaccinated is on the cards and Government will, he hoped, allow this to happen within the EU green certificate system as quickly as possible.

and

The minister also said that regulations around outdoor dining will be published early this week.

landofthetree · 24-05-2021 07:11PM

Boggles wrote: »

IF 15 months in your remedial view of the pandemic is still using the sole metric of mortality.

Around 92% of people in hospital with covid are over 40.

Here are some stats for Switzerland. I'm sure our stats would be similar.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1110045/coronavirus-covid-19-hospitalizations-number-age-group-switzerland/

PTH2009 · 24-05-2021 07:13PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Am I correct saying a lot of Europe is already at outdoor reopening stage and moving towards indoor reopening in the next couple of weeks? France (one of the worst hit EU countries?) has set the date for the 30th of June for indoor activities to resume. Portugal, Spain, Denmark have reopened indoor, Slovakia allowing indoor reopening depending on localised county restrictions now, these are just the ones I’ve read about.

By the looks of things our indoor reopening is planned for 5th/12th July or possibly later? Are they going to give us justification for this at all? It’s ludicrous at this stage.

We hit 2 million doses on 13th of May, we’ll be at close to 3 million by 1st of June and over 4 million by Monday the 28th of June. Realistically the country should be reopening on this day at the latest, or this should be the date to work towards and if any disasters happen between now and then the date can be pushed out, the Indian variant isn’t going to have us cracking open each other’s skulls, it’s criminal having the country closed for longer than it needs to be now. Half of the country will be travelling to the north or abroad in June.

NPHET wont take the gamble and MM is to scared to make a decision

Laughing stock of Europe we are

Sweet.Science · 24-05-2021 07:16PM

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

Am I correct saying a lot of Europe is already at outdoor reopening stage and moving towards indoor reopening in the next couple of weeks? France (one of the worst hit EU countries?) has set the date for the 30th of June for indoor activities to resume. Portugal, Spain, Denmark have reopened indoor, Slovakia allowing indoor reopening depending on localised county restrictions now, these are just the ones I’ve read about.

By the looks of things our indoor reopening is planned for 5th/12th July or possibly later? Are they going to give us justification for this at all? It’s ludicrous at this stage.

We hit 2 million doses on 13th of May, we’ll be at close to 3 million by 1st of June and over 4 million by Monday the 28th of June. Realistically the country should be reopening on this day at the latest, or this should be the date to work towards and if any disasters happen between now and then the date can be pushed out, the Indian variant isn’t going to have us cracking open each other’s skulls, it’s criminal having the country closed for longer than it needs to be now. Half of the country will be travelling to the north or abroad in June.

It looks like there will be EU wide travel before indoor hospitality opens

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI Read OP For Mod Warnings