Irish Property Market chat II - read mod note post #1 before posting

combat14 · 24-05-2021 09:53AM

Cyrus wrote: »

would they have been built otherwise? they were pre sold, never on the open market and will increase our rental stock with family sized a rated homes, is this not what people wanted?

pre-sold

never on open market

is that not what people wanted...

no i think most irish people at this stage want to see some sense of fairness when it comes to housing ..

how will first time buyers ever have any sort of opportunity of owning their own basic home if everything is already "pre-sold" and "not on open market" .... ?

Balluba · 24-05-2021 09:58AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you are sure about that you drop your bid back by 15-20k or more and see the auctioneer's attitude. There risks attached but if you think you have been puffed up 20-30 k then you will be in a buying position still......if you're wrong someone else gets the house at less than your final bid

It amazes me how many posters seem to trust auctioneers even though there is no transparency or accountability in the bidding process

timmyntc · 24-05-2021 09:58AM

Cyrus wrote: »

would they have been built otherwise? they were pre sold, never on the open market and will increase our rental stock with family sized a rated homes, is this not what people wanted?

The houses more than likely would have sold given the high demand.
The apartments dont get built if not pre-sold, from the article.

Balluba · 24-05-2021 09:59AM

Perhaps some posters are auctioneers

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 09:59AM

combat14 wrote: »

pre-sold

never on open market

is that not what people wanted...

no i think most irish people at this stage want to see some sense of fairness when it comes to housing ..

how will first time buyers ever have any sort of opportunity of owning their own basic home if everything is already "pre-sold" and "not on open market" .... ?

perhaps they wouldnt have been built if they werent pre sold, so they wouldnt have been available to buy anyway, at least this way we get an improvement in rental stock which was a huge issue.

and dont be sensationalist, everything isnt pre sold, we just now have some property that is built to rent, thats a good thing ultimately.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:00AM

Villa05 wrote: »

The thing with housing is the loudest and wealthiest get heard the rest of us are too busy working and commuting as a result of high priced housing to have a voice

enough is enough, this is endangering us all now

combat14 · 24-05-2021 10:03AM

Cyrus wrote: »

perhaps they wouldnt have been built if they werent pre sold, so they wouldnt have been available to buy anyway, at least this way we get an improvement in rental stock which was a huge issue.

and dont be sensationalist, everything isnt pre sold, we just now have some property that is built to rent, thats a good thing ultimately.

and at what price

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:04AM

combat14 wrote: »

and at what price

sorry you will have to elaborate. at what price to who or what?

SmokyMo · 24-05-2021 10:08AM

Cyrus wrote: »

perhaps they wouldnt have been built if they werent pre sold, so they wouldnt have been available to buy anyway, at least this way we get an improvement in rental stock which was a huge issue.

and dont be sensationalist, everything isnt pre sold, we just now have some property that is built to rent, thats a good thing ultimately.

yes they would.
there was only 1 forward payed build to rent development in Ireland.

Villa05 · 24-05-2021 10:11AM

combat14 wrote:

With up to â‚¬1bn worth of housing sold to institutional investors before a brick is laid, it could be years before the non-retrospective extra stamp duty on cuckoo funds would take effect.

Does anyone here know how the system works?

Are the funds actually providing the finance for the development of these homes or are they guaranteeing to buy them and then the developer goes to the bank to source the funding with the guarantee in their pockets

Just trying to figure out how many profit takers there are and consequently how that affects price?

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:15AM

SmokyMo wrote: »

yes they would.
there was only 1 forward payed build to rent development in Ireland.

Michael Stanley appears to contradict you

Mr Stanley said: "There is nobody building speculative apartments where they don’t yet have a buyer or a forward buyer."

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:15AM

Villa05 wrote: »

Does anyone here know how the system works?

Are the funds actually providing the finance for the development of these homes or are they guaranteeing to buy them and then the developer goes to the bank to source the funding with the guarantee in their pockets

Just trying to figure out how many profit takers there are and consequently how that affects price?

generally the latter.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:17AM

Villa05 wrote: »

Does anyone here know how the system works?

Are the funds actually providing the finance for the development of these homes or are they guaranteeing to buy them and then the developer goes to the bank to source the funding with the guarantee in their pockets

Just trying to figure out how many profit takers there are and consequently how that affects price?

my suspicions are, the funding is ultimately coming from banks in the form of credit in some way, but i dont have proof of this, as this is how our monetary systems work, particularly in the eu, we still have a largely fire sector lead economy

Zenify · 24-05-2021 10:20AM

G7 set to seal a deal on corporation tax by Friday. This will pave the way for G20 and OECD talks. First 3 to click link get a free read of the FT article.

G7 is close to deal on taxation of world’s largest companies - https://on.ft.com/2TcMEWy via @FT

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:21AM

Zenify wrote: »

G7 set to seal a deal on corporation tax by Friday. This will pave the way for G20 and OECD talks. First 3 to click link get a free read of the FT article.

G7 is close to deal on taxation of world’s largest companies - https://on.ft.com/2TcMEWy via @FT

i see biden has softened his cough somewhat

The US last week scaled back its ambitions on a global minimum corporate tax rate, lowering it from 21 per cent to an effective rate of 15 per cent to increase its appeal internationally.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:21AM

Zenify wrote: »

G7 set to seal a deal on corporation tax by Friday. This will pave the way for G20 and OECD talks. First 3 to click link get a free read of the FT article.

G7 is close to deal on taxation of world’s largest companies - https://on.ft.com/2TcMEWy via @FT

im glad to see this finally happen, but it may have negative consequences for us, i think we should move towards 15% asap, the target on our backs has become too serious

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:22AM

Cyrus wrote: »

i see biden has softened his cough somewhat

....but but the deficit, the deficit!

combat14 · 24-05-2021 10:23AM

Cyrus wrote: »

perhaps they wouldnt have been built if they werent pre sold, so they wouldnt have been available to buy anyway, at least this way we get an improvement in rental stock which was a huge issue.

and dont be sensationalist, everything isnt pre sold, we just now have some property that is built to rent, thats a good thing ultimately.

we just now have some property that is built to rent....

so these properties have all been pre sold for years - not on the open the market - we are agreed on that ..

they are now going to be rented ..

what price are these pre-sold non open market rentals which have not been made available to irish first time buyers under what is starting to look like state sponsored monopolistic/cartel like conditions?

what exorbitant price will these rentals rent for?

what is the long term price for this economy, society, culture, national competitiveness, families, mental health, etc when irish people cant buy a basic necessity such as a starter home

Ace2007 · 24-05-2021 10:24AM

Villa05 wrote: »

Does anyone here know how the system works?

Are the funds actually providing the finance for the development of these homes or are they guaranteeing to buy them and then the developer goes to the bank to source the funding with the guarantee in their pockets

Just trying to figure out how many profit takers there are and consequently how that affects price?

Used to be the latter, but now some funds are funding the entire project - which makes it a no-brainer for the developer as he doesn't have to secure finance

Villa05 · 24-05-2021 10:25AM

Cyrus wrote:

and dont be sensationalist, everything isnt pre sold, we just now have some property that is built to rent, thats a good thing ultimately.

Is it? The state is purchasing/leasing the majority of these properties at sky high rents/prices for social affordable

So we are building homes that the industry openly admits that nobody can afford with the state underwriting the whole show

This practice is even worse than the subprime crisis that collapsed the US financial system

It makes no sense

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:25AM

combat14 wrote: »

we just now have some property that is built to rent....

so these properties have all been pre sold for years - not on the open the market - we are agreed on that ..

they are now going to be rented ..

what price are these pre-sold non open market rentals which have not been made available to irish first time buyers under what is starting to look like state sponsored monopolistic/cartel like conditions?

what exorbitant price will these rentals rent for?

what is the long term price for this economy, society, culture, national competitiveness, families, mental health, etc when irish people cant buy a basic necessity such as a starter home

i have no idea what they will rent for, but if you go back 4-5 years ago people lamented that the stock of rentals was poor, there were no professional landlords and lamented how we couldnt be more like germany where people could rent for life if they wished.

now we have have some institutional landlords and decent rental stock and there is outcry.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:25AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

Used to be the latter, but now some funds are funding the entire project.

where are they getting the money?

Cyrus · 24-05-2021 10:26AM

Villa05 wrote: »

Is it? The state is purchasing/leasing the majority of these properties at sky high rents/prices for social affordable

So we are building homes that the industry openly admits that nobody can afford with the state underwriting the whole show

This practice is even worse than the subprime crisis that collapsed the US financial system

It makes no sense

if the state is leasing the majority of these id agree its short sighted, are we sure that they are indeed taking the majority?

Ace2007 · 24-05-2021 10:34AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

where are they getting the money?

The Investment funds? Pension funds and institutional investors that are looking for returns.

As i mentioned before, anyone that has a pension in Ireland, is probably directly or indirectly invested in property funds that are just oblivious about it and assume any growth asset is just equity.

Villa05 · 24-05-2021 10:43AM

Wanderer78 wrote:

my suspicions are, the funding is ultimately coming from banks in the form of credit in some way, but i dont have proof of this, as this is how our monetary systems work, particularly in the eu, we still have a largely fire sector lead economy

A quick look at the HBFI website which provides funding for housing projects.

They don't quote fees for general projects but for social housing/ahb projects they charge between 5 and 7% above the euribor rate plus 1% entry fee

Quiet a return for 0 risk, plus with the eventual customer (the state) able to borrow at 0%, the whole process has got madness written all over it

Villa05 · 24-05-2021 10:51AM

Cyrus wrote:

if the state is leasing the majority of these id agree its short sighted, are we sure that they are indeed taking the majority?

I'm making an assumption based on what the junior minister for housing said on Claire Byrne live 2 weeks ago that 60% of current resedintial construction is for social and affordable. Its likely to be increased under changes to planning last week

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:52AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

The Investment funds? Pension funds and institutional investors that are looking for returns.

As i mentioned before, anyone that has a pension in Ireland, is probably directly or indirectly invested in property funds that are just oblivious about it and assume any growth asset is just equity.

im aware of this, the real issue being, where does all this money come from, as all money begins its life as debt, i.e. whos balance sheet is this sitting on?

Villa05 wrote: »

A quick look at the HBFI website which provides funding for housing projects.

They don't quote fees for general projects but for social housing/ahb projects they charge between 5 and 7% above the euribor rate plus 1% entry fee

Quiet a return for 0 risk, plus with the eventual customer (the state) able to borrow at 0%, the whole process has got madness written all over it

the main issue being, as soon as money is created in either the public or private domains, its flooding straight into asset markets, including property, we have to stop playing this game, its endangering us all

Ace2007 · 24-05-2021 10:56AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im aware of this, the real issue being, where does all this money come from, as all money begins its life as debt, i.e. whos balance sheet is this sitting on?

the main issue being, as soon as money is created in either the public or private domains, its flooding straight into asset markets, including property, we have to stop playing this game, its endangering us all

For all the abuse investment funds gets, they provided finance for a wide range of society - like Healthcare facilities - they provide the funds to build large scale operations and without them we might not have the advances in medicine that we do.

Shopping centers/office blocks etc - majority are owned/finance by these funds. As another poster said - only a few years ago renters wanted professional standard apartments that ordinary landlords couldn't provide. The saying be careful what you wish for comes to mind.

Wanderer78 · 24-05-2021 10:58AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

For all the abuse investment funds gets, they provided finance for a wide range of society - like Healthcare facilities - they provide the funds to build large scale operations and without them we might not have the advances in medicine that we do.

Shopping centers/office blocks etc - majority are owned/finance by these funds. As another poster said - only a few years ago renters wanted professional standard apartments that ordinary landlords couldn't provide. The saying be careful what you wish for comes to mind.

yes, we do indeed need the fire sectors, but we ve turned them into a rent seeking mess, thats now actually endangering us all

24-05-2021 11:00AM

Wanderer78 wrote: »

yes, we do indeed need the fire sectors, but we ve turned them into a rent seeking mess, thats now actually endangering us all

Will they burn the house while Im in bed?

Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

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Irish Property Market chat II - read mod note post #1 before posting