Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

And? Do you expect all the hospital staff, dentists, airport staff to move en mass from Dublin? Because they are the only people who could move from Dublin to those places and work in those jobs, and Dublin badly needs them too.

Not near a workable solution.

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

Individuals can and do go - thats why most hospitals that part of the country are well enough staffed - or at least they dont have a lot of openings. Same goes for universities and the regional airports. Now whether the staff came from Dublin or were always based out West, who knows - but there are not a lot of easily gotten jobs in those places.

Unless you are aware of a massive dentist shortage in Limerick

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

Individuals can and do go - thats why most hospitals that part of the country are well enough staffed - or at least they dont have a lot of openings. Same goes for universities and the regional airports. Now whether the staff came from Dublin or were always based out West, who knows - but there are not a lot of easily gotten jobs in those places.

Unless you are aware of a massive dentist shortage in Limerick

I have yet to see a poor dentist if i am honest be that in Wexford, Dublin or anywhere else so im sure if one set up a practice in Limerick they would do just fine.

People have teeth everywhere

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

I have yet to see a poor dentist if i am honest be that in Wexford, Dublin or anywhere else so im sure if one set up a practice in Limerick they would do just fine.

People have teeth everywhere

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

cnocbui

Cyrus wrote: »

surely their concern is themselves not what dublin needs?

As is your concern for what Dublin needs, not the rest of the country. No cancer patients in Dublin have to drag themselves across country to Galway for tretment away from family support for days.

I wasn't suggesting take from Dublin, I was suggesting create non Dublin capcity and facilities which is lacking and which has been needed for the past 20 years.

Dublin has 38% of the population and 78% (made up) of the medical resources. It certainly snarfs all the high end capacity.

Don't you remember the neo-natal nurse with the excuse she couldn't work anywhere but Dublin because sick premies can only be cared for in Dublin - which is both sick making and attrocious.

There are better ways for the government to reduce the housing pressure on Dublin, but they and the civil/public service don't want to go there, even it would benefit the majority of the population.

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

of course, but maybe not where they want to live in dublin.

you dont see how someone could earn less and have a better standard of living outside dublin?

cnocbui

Ace2007 wrote: »

Would be be your ex if he was on 4.7 times :pac::pac:

She, sexist.

Ace2007

timmyntc wrote: »

If you don't see poor dentists in Dublin, then why would they leave in the first place? Clearly its a profession that gets paid enough to afford to live in Dublin

Then why included it in your list of individuals when making the point that they can't afford the cost of Dublin property?

timmyntc

Cyrus wrote: »

of course, but maybe not where they want to live in dublin.

you dont see how someone could earn less and have a better standard of living outside dublin?

Of course, but same could be said for remote working in Spain or Portugal with a better standard of living.

Some people do want to live in Dublin - and not necessarily in the upmarket posh areas, just in the city somewhere. People should not have to aspire to buy a house in Kildare, Meath or Portlaois so that they can be "near" to Dublin. Dublin is very low density and has swathes of undeveloped land - there is no reason for it to be as expensive as it is right now relative to the average incomes in Dublin

timmyntc

Ace2007 wrote: »

Then why included it in your list of individuals when making the point that they can't afford the cost of Dublin property?

I didn't include that. cnocbui made the list up

Cyrus

timmyntc wrote: »

Of course, but same could be said for remote working in Spain or Portugal with a better standard of living.

Some people do want to live in Dublin - and not necessarily in the upmarket posh areas, just in the city somewhere. People should not have to aspire to buy a house in Kildare, Meath or Portlaois so that they can be "near" to Dublin. Dublin is very low density and has swathes of undeveloped land - there is no reason for it to be as expensive as it is right now relative to the average incomes in Dublin

well back to your last post a dentist could afford to live in lots of parts of dublin.

and remote working in spain or portugal isnt an alternative if you are an irish tax payer employed by an irish legal entity.

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

But most people I hear are looking to buy house,

Hence the significant rises in the commuter belt from those priced out of Dublin and escaping the rents

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

So it's funds regulate house price? HTB grants has no impact on price?

If you control high demand areas you control price and push out those that can't afford leading to rises further out, ripple effect

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

If you control high demand areas you control price and push out those that can't afford leading to rises further out, ripple effect

So? HTB help, do not increase the price? If we remove 3.5x income ceiling prices won't go up?

keoclassic

This is the madness we are back to.......

https://www.myhome.ie/priceregister/10-cypress-gardens-athlone-co-westmeath-co-westmeath-587310


Now on the market for 275,000. I'd say no more than 20-30,000 put into it. No new housing being built in Athlone save for 1 small development. Depressing. It's pure greed.

cnocbui

It's not greed. Selling your house for the going market rate is what everyone does and it's what you would do too in their position.

Just be thankful they didn't buy bitcoin instead, which would now be worth about €8.1 million.

Bass Reeves

keoclassic wrote: »

This is the madness we are back to.......

https://www.myhome.ie/priceregister/10-cypress-gardens-athlone-co-westmeath-co-westmeath-587310


Now on the market for 275,000. I'd say no more than 20-30,000 put into it. No new housing being built in Athlone save for 1 small development. Depressing. It's pure greed.

Not really. 85K was below building cost. Just looked at it on YouTube if 30k did up the inside of the house it was all done straight after buying. Looks a strong price for the house of it is achieved. Not familiar with Athlone prices. If it's a family moving they will more than likely add 150k+ to buy there next home. At the end of the day they had enough balls not to listen to the naysayers when they bought it and it worked out for them. If they moved a year or two earlier 100k with a lesser price for that house word buy what they will pay 150k now

keoclassic

cnocbui wrote: »

It's not greed. Selling your house for the going market rate is what everyone does and it's what you would do too in their position.

Just be thankful they didn't buy bitcoin instead, which would now be worth about €8.1 million.

It's greed. It won't make the price, but it is greed. Your right that the house will sell for market value but putting a value of 275 on it is greed. If the local authority buy that house...... Is that the market value?

Bass Reeves

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k. I was prepared to have a go at them but some other investor threw a 155k bid on them and that blew me out of it. There was an agent in place who looked after the place and he said the rental return was 480/unit at the time. I am not sure if I could have financed it but they are surly worth 120/130k each now and yielding 800-1k/apartment.

I remember in 2010 an old lad yelling me that real money is made in a recession compared to s boom

Marius34

keoclassic wrote: »

It's greed. It won't make the price, but it is greed. Your right that the house will sell for market value but putting a value of 275 on it is greed. If the local authority buy that house...... Is that the market value?

And what sellers should do in this situation?

cnocbui

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k. I was prepared to have a go at them but some other investor threw a 155k bid on them and that blew me out of it. There was an agent in place who looked after the place and he said the rental return was 480/unit at the time. I am not sure if I could have financed it but they are surly worth 120/130k each now and yielding 800-1k/apartment.

I remember in 2010 an old lad yelling me that real money is made in a recession compared to s boom

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete and which I spent time considering if I should enquire about the price and have a go. They were a NAMA sale and had they been available individually, I might have given one a go. They have sat there for over a decade.

Somone bought them recently and there was a flurry of activity a few months ago but nothing recently. Should make an absolute killing for someone:

awec

cnocbui wrote: »

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete and which I spent time considering if I should enquire about the price and have a go. They were a NAMA sale and had they been available individually, I might have given one a go. They have sat there for over a decade.

Somone bought them recently and there was a flurry of activity a few months ago but nothing recently. Should make an absolute killing for someone:

It would depend on what they're like inside. If they've never been inhabited or heated then there's a decent chance they need taken right back to an empty shell.

Ardillaun

timmyntc wrote: »

Ireland's spiralling cost of housing will make us non-competitive as a place to do business. So job-creating through FDI will dry up, and some of business that are here currently will lose profits (maybe even some cutbacks in staff)
Which means less taxes for the state. It's bad news for everyone

This is a perspective that the government doesn’t seem to take seriously enough.

cnocbui

awec wrote: »

It would depend on what they're like inside. If they've never been inhabited or heated then there's a decent chance they need taken right back to an empty shell.

They are empty shells. I always surmised that who ever built them ran out of funds to finish them off.

Bass Reeves

cnocbui wrote: »

They are empty shells. I always surmised that who ever built them ran out of funds to finish them off.

There was lots of similar type developments hanging around most have been bought by smaller builders by now. They could never be sold singly as often connections to water, waste or sewage plants. As well as buildings are semidetached in this case these types of developments had to be sold as one lot. Only way would have been to get three similar minded individuals involved with you.

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

So? HTB help, do not increase the price? If we remove 3.5x income ceiling prices won't go up?

The market in Dublin has moved beyond HTB plus 3.5/4.5 times income hence the panic to introduce shared ownership which would effectively bring it to 4.5/5.5 times income on new homes.
Is this enough to compete with investment funds or will they continue to blow FTB out of the water and take price to increasing levels of unsustainability

It's important to remember that the mortgage rules were imposed upon by those that bailed us out as we were seen as incapable of running a proper functioning market which is a correct assumption

All government action has been attempts to get around mortgage rules and turn it back into the massive risk it is now

As people are priced out of Dublin to other areas, they are pricing people working in those areas out of that area.
For a country with an abundance of land in proportion to its population this is bad housing management

Should a crash occur those that have long commutes to work, away from from family/ friends will be far more likely to default given what happened 10 years ago.

You come across as a knowledgeable poster. Is there any aspect of this post you disagree with. I'd love to believe that this country is rich beyond dreams and that we can afford all this madness

I want to be proven wrong!

Bass Reeves wrote:

I cannot understand with people fascination with prices back around 2013/14. These prices were anything from 30-40% of building costs. To my eternal regret I did not gamble a bit back then. I went to see a group 4 X2 bed apartments in Limerick one day with a reserve of 130k.

Tried myself in 2014 to get standalone 4 * 2 bed close to the crescent SS priced at 200k for my own use plus investment, but finance was impossible, had to settle for house in same area.
Investment mortgages were a no no, tried a 10 year secured loan but no go

cnocbui wrote:

I never got as serious as you, but there were four incomplete town houses in killaloe/Ballina that were incomplete.

Tried here also, different houses, but non connection to services put us off

Marius34

Villa05 wrote: »

The market in Dublin has moved beyond HTB plus 3.5/4.5 times income hence the panic to introduce shared ownership which would effectively bring it to 4.5/5.5 times income on new homes.

I don't think it was an answer to my simple yes/no question
So? what if it brings 4.5/5.5 times income? this won't increase the price? HTB has no impact on price?

Villa05

Marius34 wrote:

I don't think it was an answer to my simple yes/no question So? what if it brings 4.5/5.5 times income? this won't increase the price? HTB has no impact on price?

So?
Incomplete question

Increasing multiples of income increase price

Htb will increase price

snow_bunny

Villa05 wrote: »

It's important to remember that the mortgage rules were imposed upon by those that bailed us out as we were seen as incapable of running a proper functioning market which is a correct assumption

All government action has been attempts to get around mortgage rules and turn it back into the massive risk it is now

As people are priced out of Dublin to other areas, they are pricing people working in those areas out of that area.
For a country with an abundance of land in proportion to its population this is bad housing management

Should a crash occur those that have long commutes to work, away from from family/ friends will be far more likely to default given what happened 10 years ago.

You come across as a knowledgeable poster. Is there any aspect of this post you disagree with. I'd love to believe that this country is rich beyond dreams and that we can afford all this madness

Finally, someone getting to the heart of it, in a nutshell.

People need to forget about avocado toast and holidays in Australia. You're ignoring the real problems and the interference going on in the market. If you'll excuse my French, we're being rode sideways to the benefit of foreign funds and to the detriment of our own society.

*again.

Ace2007

snow_bunny wrote: »

Finally, someone getting to the heart of it, in a nutshell.

People need to forget about avocado toast and holidays in Australia. You're ignoring the real problems and the interference going on in the market. If you'll excuse my French, we're being rode sideways to the benefit of foreign funds and to the detriment of our own society.

*again.

Just to be clear without investment funds many healthcare facilities and infrastructures would not exist. So while maybe they are not helping the situation in terms of buying house estates. As a society we need these investment funds and the capital that they are willing to provide.

Shopping centres/office blocks etc would either not be built or fall into disarray only for these investment funds. Private companies do not have the expertise or the outlay to purchase these block themselves.