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The great myths of housing

  • 23-05-2021 1:47pm
    #1
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    A provocative article in todays Indo by Conor Skehan - Let’s demolish the four great myths of housing

    His myths are:

    The First Time Buyer - he reckons too much attention paid to the needs of this cohort given that they represent approx 0.3% of all homeowners and 25% of annual sales
    Generation Rent - "a myth making trope that is used to persuade people that they are victims"
    Dead Money - "the equivalent of saying that food money is a waste because you'll be hungry again tomorrow - so buy a cow, chicken or or an orchard instead"
    The Housing Crisis - the greatest myth of all. Vested interests "continually trying to convince the population that they are housing victims."

    One of his arguments against the crisis is that we already have supply, and that new builds are not the solution:
    We have more than 200,000 vacant homes across Ireland. When we encourage or allow the Government to support new build housing instead of refurbishing, then we are choosing to move away from availability and affordability.

    I don't agree with everything he says, but I think he has some valid points - the supply crisis is not as bad as we are led to believe, and there are other solutions available than new builds.

    I wholeheartedly agree that of all the measures to tackle housing, myth busting is the most important.
    Yet the most important work remains taking on the job of 'myth-busting' about housing - which risks incurring the wrath of those with a vested interest in keeping the population in a state of victimhood.
    If we frame our questions differently, we might be pleasantly surprised to learn that housing can be more affordable than headlines suggest.

    Well worth reading the article for a different take on the questions.


«134567…10

Comments

  • #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    Indeed.

    "Second hand" is a phrase that needs to be banished from housing discussions.

    Most people do not buy new houses.


  • #3
    Pawwed Rig
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 22,407 CMod ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    The article is behind a pay wall for me


  • #4
    Allyson Plain Pension
    Posts: 13,688 ✭✭✭✭ Allyson Plain Pension


    I see a minor flaw in his First Time Buyers being only .3% of transactions argument...


  • #5
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I see a minor flaw in his First Time Buyers being only .03% of transactions argument...

    Which is?


  • #6
    Damien360
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,595 ✭✭✭Damien360


    Housing at an affordable price is what is needed. Problem is, what is acceptable quality for one is not good enough for another.

    So with that in mind, price control is what is required. Don’t think it would be legal under eu law but here goes.

    What if the state forced fixed rental pricing on let’s say a 3 bed semi anywhere in the country at the maximum price of let’s say 1200 per month. All investors have to pay tax on the rent same as any other landlord to prevent a monopoly that could force a change later. That’s important. Overnight it would take the wind out of the housing prices speculators. A house price collapse as it is currently out of control. The hit on that is all the people caught again in negative equity and who picks up the tab. The time to do all that was straight after the last bust. If it keeps going the way it’s going, we may get another chance to do this.

    Keeping the price of rent at a maximum would also ensure that business would not need to increase wages to keep up with staff demands due to ever increasing rents. It would by default keep the selling price lower of houses and keep mortgage costs far more manageable. All this is predicated on the supply being present.

    Nobody has a right to buy beside their mammy and will have to move further afield. That puts pressure on commuting distance again. It would need a proper public transport infrastructure and not just one for Dublin.

    The biggest issue in fixing prices is whether the build costs would be covered by the selling prices of new builds. For existing houses, this is not an issue but then you could end up creating a two-tier system which we don’t want.

    All this at the top of my head, so attack at will but I would like to see other ideas.


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  • #7
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    schmittel wrote: »
    Which is?

    Think about it.


  • #8
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,345 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    Damien360 wrote:
    What if the state forced fixed rental pricing on let’s say a 3 bed semi anywhere in the country at the maximum price of let’s say 1200 per month. All investors have to pay tax on the rent same as any other landlord to prevent a monopoly that could force a change later. That’s important. Overnight it would take the wind out of the housing prices speculators. A house price collapse as it is currently out of control. The hit on that is all the people caught again in negative equity and who picks up the tab. The time to do all that was straight after the last bust. If it keeps going the way it’s going, we may get another chance to do this.


    Populist crap. It won't provide a single extra house and create a disincentive to investors to buy rental properties. It's as if you're saying renters should have nowhere to live.

    When RPZ rules haven't worked to make rents cheaper, how do you think more price controls will?

    Also your strategy means that people in rural areas paying 600 now will end up paying 1200.

    The only solution that can work to solve rent prices is supply and removing the obstacles that prevent that.


  • #9
    Murph85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    Read the article , some truth, a lot of crap... his point, leave things as they are, do t question them.. why question the rip off pricing and accept you should commute 40km each way, instead of living where you want to live and work in the dockland etc , where the Infrastructure already is, where the employment is. Where you are beside city entre and the coast


  • #10
    Murph85
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,068 ✭✭✭Murph85


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    Populist crap. It won't provide a single extra house and create a disincentive to investors to buy rental properties. It's as if you're saying renters should have nowhere to live.

    When RPZ rules haven't worked to make rents cheaper, how do you think more price controls will?

    Also your strategy means that people in rural areas paying 600 now will end up paying 1200.

    The only solution that can work to solve rent prices is supply and removing the obstacles that prevent that.

    Colm McCarty also has a good piece in the indo, the entire planning system in relation to the courts is one of the elephants in the room, that they will have too address...


  • #11
    James Bond Junior
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,140 ✭✭✭James Bond Junior


    1. Make it possible to evict mortgage defaulters and seize properties.

    2. Stop taxing landlords out the door would help. 48% effective tax rate on the total amount is a total barrier to investment which impacts supply.

    3. Let the all landlords are evil mentality die with the famine. Give landlords fair rights for delinquent tenants. Landlords are leaving in droves, constricting supply because they are always up against it.

    4. Make planning and building of high quality apartments in urban areas more affordable. Minimum sizes to allow apartment living to become a viable option for families instead of having to aspire to a 3 bed semi.

    5. Stop government interference. Help to buy schemes exacerbate price rises. VAT on new builds in my opinion is ethically wrong. Family homes should not be subject to VAT. BTL is different but not a PPR.


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  • #12
    Darc19
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    James Bond Junior wrote: »
    1. Make it possible to evict mortgage defaulters and seize properties.

    2. Stop taxing landlords out the door would help. 48% effective tax rate on the total amount is a total barrier to investment which impacts supply.

    3. Let the all landlords are evil mentality die with the famine. Give landlords fair rights for delinquent tenants. Landlords are leaving in droves, constricting supply because they are always up against it.

    4. Make planning and building of high quality apartments in urban areas more affordable. Minimum sizes to allow apartment living to become a viable option for families instead of having to aspire to a 3 bed semi.

    5. Stop government interference. Help to buy schemes exacerbate price rises. VAT on new builds in my opinion is ethically wrong. Family homes should not be subject to VAT. BTL is different but not a PPR.

    100% agree. Non payers - mortgage holders and tenants - should not be pandered to the way they are.

    Likewise, landlords must also give deposits back immediately.

    Obviously if you evict people it just puts them on a housing list, it would attract new investors and reduce mortgage costs


  • #13
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    schmittel wrote:
    Well worth reading the article for a different take on the questions.


    It's nonsense really though.


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    schmittel wrote: »
    Which is?

    At 0.3% of transactions this would indicate that first time buyers market is dead, if true. Meaning there is a crisis for first time buyers.

    Probably nonsense though.


  • #15
    B2021M
    Registered Users Posts: 538 ✭✭✭B2021M


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    At 0.03% of transactions would indicate that first time buyers market is dead, if true. Meaning there is a crisis for first time buyers.

    Probably nonsense though.

    Well the OP figure was 0.3% but can it be verified?

    Less than 1 in 300?!


  • #16
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    Behind a paywall but would love to read about the housing crisis myth.

    Something I have been saying for years.


  • #17
    Varik
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,552 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Pop the URL into one of the archive sites, and someone always has it backed up.

    Would post it but some mods are touchy about it.


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Behind a paywall but would love to read about the housing crisis myth.

    Something I have been saying for years.

    Avocado eating millennials am I right?


  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Also the 200,000 vacant buildings, if true, doesn’t solve the crisis either if most of them are outside cities. Which I expect.


  • #20
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    Dereliction is a big problem


    Every village near me has houses that are boarded up and unused, then you have holiday houses that some fella uses a couple of weeks in August



    I reckon if every empty house and every ruin was done up there would be no housing problem anymore. No need to build any new ghost estates


    This will probably be the last time there's a housing crisis. The world population is set to start falling shortly so that will eventually stem the flow of immigrants. By 2050 there will probably absolutely loads of empty houses, perhaps whole empty streets in the cities


  • #21
    eringobragh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,668 ✭✭✭eringobragh


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Behind a paywall but would love to read about the housing crisis myth.

    Something I have been saying for years.

    Just use one of the disposable email address providers and you get 3 free articles :cool:


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Dereliction is a big problem


    Every village near me has houses that are boarded up and unused, then you have holiday houses that some fella uses a couple of weeks in August



    I reckon if every empty house and every ruin was done up there would be no housing problem anymore. No need to build any new ghost estates


    This will probably be the last time there's a housing crisis. The world population is set to start falling shortly so that will eventually stem the flow of immigrants. By 2050 there will probably absolutely loads of empty houses, perhaps whole empty streets in the cities

    Africa is still growing.

    How does fixing a derelict building in termifeckin solve a crisis in Dublin?


  • #23
    domrush
    Registered Users Posts: 1,186 ✭✭✭domrush


    schmittel wrote: »
    Which is?

    If you think that 0.3% of residential houses being sold to first time buyers is not an issue then I don’t know where to start...

    First time buyers and prospective first time buyers are the people most effected by the housing crisis. Think about it ffs


  • #24
    Ubbquittious
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,256 ✭✭✭Ubbquittious


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Africa is still growing.

    How does fixing a derelict building in termifeckin solve a crisis in Dublin?

    Get people to move to termonfeckin. Dublin has been 'feckin' mad for years


  • #25
    notAMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭notAMember


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Also the 200,000 vacant buildings, if true, doesn’t solve the crisis either if most of them are outside cities. Which I expect.

    I don’t know about that…

    Fair deal is one cause of these, 20k homes that cannot be rented out, sometimes for decades, because the govt has a stake in them in return for nursing home care. Most of those are urban.

    Flats above shops are another set. Impossible to renovate and let out in a lot of cases. The regs are designed to prevent development.


  • #26
    hgfj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 252 ✭✭hgfj


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    The article is behind a pay wall for me


    https://outline.com

    Works for most sites - but not all.


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Get people to move to termonfeckin. Dublin has been 'feckin' mad for years

    How do you do that? Remote working might help but it’s not guaranteed. The movement in all countries is to urbanisation.


  • #28
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    domrush wrote: »
    If you think that 0.3% of residential houses being sold to first time buyers is not an issue then I don’t know where to start...

    First time buyers and prospective first time buyers are the people most effected by the housing crisis. Think about it ffs

    Fair enough my bad, massive flaw in OP which is my fault for summarising in haste, and I've now corrected.

    His thoughts on FTBs in more detail:
    There are about two million houses and apartments in Ireland. Out of about 24,000 annual house purchases, only around 6000 are first time buyers.
    This means that national policy is driven by the needs of one third of one percent of all homeowners, and one quarter of annual sales

    Of course FTBs are most affected by supply shortages and affordability issues, but I agree with the point that we cannot let the tail wag the dog.

    We need to be focussing on getting turnover in the entire market moving - trader uppers, downsizers, relocators etc rather than just pursuing a policy of building what FTBs want.


  • #29
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,457 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    schmittel wrote: »
    A provocative article in todays Indo by Conor Skehan - Let’s demolish the four great myths of housing

    His myths are:

    The First Time Buyer - he reckons too much attention paid to the needs of this cohort given that they represent approx 0.3% of all homeowners and 25% of annual sales
    Generation Rent - "a myth making trope that is used to persuade people that they are victims"
    Dead Money - "the equivalent of saying that food money is a waste because you'll be hungry again tomorrow - so buy a cow, chicken or or an orchard instead"
    The Housing Crisis - the greatest myth of all. Vested interests "continually trying to convince the population that they are housing victims."

    One of his arguments against the crisis is that we already have supply, and that new builds are not the solution:



    I don't agree with everything he says, but I think he has some valid points - the supply crisis is not as bad as we are led to believe, and there are other solutions available than new builds.

    I wholeheartedly agree that of all the measures to tackle housing, myth busting is the most important.



    Well worth reading the article for a different take on the questions.

    Where are those 200k vacant properties?


  • #30
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,304 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    We have more than 200,000 vacant homes across Ireland. When we encourage or allow the Government to support new build housing instead of refurbishing, then we are choosing to move away from availability and affordability.
    How many are near Dublin, or nearby a town that has non-retail jobs? By non-retail, I mean not the local shop.
    And the ones that are in Dublin, how many are in nice places that you'd want to live?
    When not the above two, how many are affordable?
    And finally, how many are held by the HSE to fund the owners end of life facilities?


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  • #31
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Also the 200,000 vacant buildings, if true, doesn’t solve the crisis either if most of them are outside cities. Which I expect.

    Huge amounts of vacancies in Greater Dublin. Dublin and commuter counties are the only locations where vacancy rates are rising.


  • #32
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    I'm assuming the writer is from one of the "I'm alright Jack" set who don't have to worry about the roof over their heads? Or put up with a house share as a mature adult or consider the merits of living in a fücking converted builders van?


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just reading all the comments is so depressing.
    Housing is absolutely F##ked here isn't it.


  • #34
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,779 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    It depends very much on your circumstances and where you want to live/work.
    If you want to live in or near a big centre of work it's gonna cost you a lot more than living in the periphery.


  • #35
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,135 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Do the 'vacant property' figures also includes cases where someone has a family home say in the country and something like a 'pied de terre' apartment in Dublin for occasional work or personal reasons?
    Or vice versa, holiday homes in the country and principal residence in Dublin?

    In which case, they aren't vacant... under utilised but not vacant really.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #36
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    the_syco wrote: »
    How many are near Dublin, or nearby a town that has non-retail jobs? By non-retail, I mean not the local shop.
    And the ones that are in Dublin, how many are in nice places that you'd want to live?
    When not the above two, how many are affordable?
    And finally, how many are held by the HSE to fund the owners end of life facilities?

    Vacancy rates for Dublin city:

    535895.JPG

    Thanks to Timing Belt


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  • #37
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    whisky_galore wrote: »
    I'm assuming the writer is from one of the "I'm alright Jack" set who don't have to worry about the roof over their heads? Or put up with a house share as a mature adult or consider the merits of living in a fücking converted builders van?

    He's a former chair of the Housing Agency and a lecturer in planning at TUD. According to his firm's website:
    Conor Skehan, BSc, MLArch, our Director, has an unparalleled range of international and Irish experience. With a background in architecture and landscape Architecture, he is a recognised authority on strategic planning, landscape management, visual impact assessment and Environmental Impact Assessment. He has written a number of seminal guidelines in these areas and maintained a position as a leading academic in planning and impact assessment for over twenty years. He is also an advisor to the UN on SEA.

    He's probably alright Jack, but he's also undoubtedly qualified to comment.


  • #38
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,512 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    schmittel wrote: »
    He's a former chair of the Housing Agency and a lecturer in planning at TUD. According to his firm's website:

    He's probably alright Jack, but he's also undoubtedly qualified to comment.

    You would think, albeit detached from reality.


  • #39
    Hubertj
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,000 ✭✭✭Hubertj


    schmittel wrote: »
    He's a former chair of the Housing Agency and a lecturer in planning at TUD. According to his firm's website:



    He's probably alright Jack, but he's also undoubtedly qualified to comment.

    I think he would be 1 of the more qualified people to comment on the problems and possible solutions. He’s not just an academic or politician ( we all know who they are)basing their housing policy on politician ideology. He has real world experience of the sh*t show that is the Irish property market.


  • #40
    Ace2007
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,778 ✭✭✭✭Ace2007


    notAMember wrote: »
    I don’t know about that…

    Fair deal is one cause of these, 20k homes that cannot be rented out, sometimes for decades, because the govt has a stake in them in return for nursing home care. Most of those are urban.

    That's not entirely true, there is nothing stopping the houses in questions being rented out per se. The issue in many cases is that

    1. The houses in questions are out dated and would cost money to refurbish, and no one is willing/can spend the money.

    2. The house will then be seen as a rental home and not a PPR, and so that full value of the house will be used in calculating the cost of the nursing home each year until the individual dies. If the individual in the nursing home has no cash assets, and the house is worth 400k for instance, they may only get 1k in rental as it's outdated, but instead of having no liability in the house (if past the 3 years cap), they would then have to come up with 30k a year, which they won't be able to. All in all it makes no sense for the owner who is in a nursing home to rent out there home as unless the house is in good condition and can attract market rent.

    3. If the house is sold, again the full amount is liable for nursing home care every year.

    So it has nothing to do with the government having a stake in them at all, it's policies relating to the fair deal that makes it a non runner in the majority of cases.


  • #41
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,135 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    So it has nothing to do with the government having a stake in them at all, it's policies relating to the fair deal that makes it a non runner in the majority of cases.

    Plus the house will be sold, in the forseeable future, and who wants to be dealing with a possibly difficult tenant and other such hassles for very little reward in rent.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #42
    Jinglejangle69
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭Jinglejangle69


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Avocado eating millennials am I right?

    Spot on squire.


  • #43
    hometruths
    Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,162 ✭✭✭hometruths


    Jinglejangle69 wrote: »
    Spot on squire.

    In fairness he's not banging the avocado toast drum.

    He makes the point that if you can't afford your preferred location you'll have to cut your cloth to measure, but nowhere does he is he suggesting that affordability is driven by a propensity to fritter away cash.

    As far as modern trends and tastes go, he points out the difference between the car manufacturing industry and housing.

    Despite ever increased standards of safety and customer expectation, the car industry have improved value for money increasing efficiencies and technologies

    Why hasn't the housing industry done the same?


  • #44
    kippy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,779 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    schmittel wrote: »
    In fairness he's not banging the avocado toast drum.

    He makes the point that if you can't afford your preferred location you'll have to cut your cloth to measure, but nowhere does he is he suggesting that affordability is driven by a propensity to fritter away cash.

    As far as modern trends and tastes go, he points out the difference between the car manufacturing industry and housing.

    Despite ever increased standards of safety and customer expectation, the car industry have improved value for money increasing efficiencies and technologies

    Why hasn't the housing industry done the same?
    There is no 'housing industry' - you simply cannot compare both.


  • #45
    notAMember
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,679 ✭✭✭notAMember


    Ace2007 wrote: »
    That's not entirely true, there is nothing stopping the houses in questions being rented out per se. The issue in many cases is that

    1. The houses in questions are out dated and would cost money to refurbish, and no one is willing/can spend the money.

    2. The house will then be seen as a rental home and not a PPR, and so that full value of the house will be used in calculating the cost of the nursing home each year until the individual dies. If the individual in the nursing home has no cash assets, and the house is worth 400k for instance, they may only get 1k in rental as it's outdated, but instead of having no liability in the house (if past the 3 years cap), they would then have to come up with 30k a year, which they won't be able to. All in all it makes no sense for the owner who is in a nursing home to rent out there home as unless the house is in good condition and can attract market rent.

    3. If the house is sold, again the full amount is liable for nursing home care every year.

    So it has nothing to do with the government having a stake in them at all, it's policies relating to the fair deal that makes it a non runner in the majority of cases.

    Also, the gross rental income is seen as income for the elderly person, not including any costs

    Here's an article on it.
    https://denisnaughten.ie/2019/09/15/families-penalised-for-renting-out-fair-deal-homes-naughten/

    It's incentivised dereliction and vacancy during a property shortage.

    Silly policies like this have us tied up in knots.


  • #46
    tommyombomb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 261 ✭✭tommyombomb


    schmittel wrote: »
    Vacancy rates for Dublin city:

    535895.JPG

    Thanks to Timing Belt

    How do they define vacancy rate. I am convinced that a high percentage of those are rented in the black market


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    schmittel wrote: »

    Despite ever increased standards of safety and customer expectation, the car industry have improved value for money increasing efficiencies and technologies

    Why hasn't the housing industry done the same?

    Can you imagine if every local politician gets involved in the automotive industry the way they are involved in development. :pac:


    "Yes I understand the transport crisis but this company should not produce vans because they are entirely unsuitable for family motoring"

    "There is a transport crisis that we all recognise but no one should be building articulated trucks. Look at the size of them. They are too expensive, too big for local roads, ruin the views and you will never ever fill them."

    "This company wants to provide a large amount of rental cars in my local area, however right now most cars in the area are privately owned. We do not believe that these rental cars will be suitable for the local community"

    "You should not be allowed park your brand new Tesla in our local area since it will spoil the historic views from my three wheeled Reliant Robin"

    "I feel that 2 door and 1 litre cars should be banned. We need to be raising standards and ordinary people should allways have a 4 door car and at least a 2.5 litre engine."


  • #48
    mariaalice
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,615 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    Blaming it all on the government and government policy makes me laugh although they are a part of the issue, because of being in a position for a few days to listen every day to all the talking heads, commentators, experts.

    So going by the 'experts' we need higher density and high rises, then the next expert says no we don't we need mixed-use medium density medium-rise, the next expert we need family apartments, the next expert we need duplex and townhouses, not every single person want to live in an apartment, the next expert its land tax, land hoarding tax we need, the next expert its property developers and builders are satan and Beelzebub one of the 7 princes of hell combined, the next expert Nama bla bla.


  • #49
    handlemaster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,003 ✭✭✭handlemaster


    Ubbquittious wrote: »
    Dereliction is a big problem


    Every village near me has houses that are boarded up and unused, then you have holiday houses that some fella uses a couple of weeks in August



    I reckon if every empty house and every ruin was done up there would be no housing problem anymore. No need to build any new ghost estates


    This will probably be the last time there's a housing crisis. The world population is set to start falling shortly so that will eventually stem the flow of immigrants. By 2050 there will probably absolutely loads of empty houses, perhaps whole empty streets in the cities

    People who suggest renovating derelict property as a solution have never renovated a property. It like a can of worms the cost keeps going up one issue after another. There could be some that could be renovated in areas where people want to live but generally you will find those areas have very few such vacant properties. In short there are no properties where people want to live and work.


  • #50
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,901 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    schmittel wrote:
    A provocative article in todays Indo by Conor Skehan -

    He sounds astonishly ignorant alright, I suspect there's no mention of the fact, we ve been experiencing rapid property price inflation, low wage inflation and increasing precariousness of working conditions, for the last couple of decades?


  • #51
    ec18
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,729 ✭✭✭ec18


    It's an interesting discussion, I have some sympathy for current house prices and the carry on with REIT's buying up housing estates shouldn't be happening. However a lot of the problems or at least what I see are trying to buy in really desirable areas (or any part inside the M50). It's never been the case that people could buy where they want and to paraphrase another poster anyone buying a house has had to compromise on location/size etc.

    Covid has caused a supply shortage a sharp increase in sale agreed prices and it'll be interesting to see if the actual sale price trend on PPR match up. I do tend to agree with the general theme of the article that focusing on new builds isn't enough and that buyers need to be a but realistic about what dream vs reality. Like if you're a deliveroo driver or in the neighbourhood of the minimum wage you aren't going to be able to afford to buy in Ranelagh or Rathfarnham.

    A refurbishment grant for derelict properties and easing some of the planning requirements for them with local authorities would help. We do need a review of a lot of the 'initiatives' brought in like the fast track planning and tax breaks on property funds. People do need to have an honest conversation with themselves as well around their expectations vs their reality.


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