Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

Silentcorner wrote: »

OK Boggles...I'll try to make this as simple as possible.

We have two elements. One - The Virus and Two - The Lock Downs

(I think we are all in agreement with some degree of restrictions)

The Virus behaves differently everywhere, depending on climate, population density, the health of the population and probably a few more I am not aware of....which makes comparisons between countries challenging, we are going to see a different result than India for example.

The Lock Downs (or severe restrictions) don't seem to have made any difference where they have been implemented....there is no evidence that the work, despite the massive social upheaval, economic and health costs, a little odd don't you think.

In fact, I am of the belief that if this virus originated in Germany, we'd never have locked down, we'd have all done what Sweden did.

So now we can compare.

Great.

You see no difference between outcomes between Florida and Ireland? We will even ignore the Governor has been accused on several occasions of a bit of creative accountancy.

You picked Florida, so lets start there.

Boggles wrote: »

So now we can compare.

Great.

You see no difference between outcomes between Florida and Ireland? We will even ignore the Governor has been accused on several occasions of a bit of creative accountancy.

You picked Florida, so lets start there.

And there you go....he was accused...like I said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening.

If was up for reelection tomorrow, do you think he's win?

Silentcorner wrote: »

And there you go....he was accused...like I said, it doesn't take a genius to figure out what is happening.

If was up for reelection tomorrow, do you think he's win?

No idea, election is next year and a lot can happen in a few weeks in American politics let alone a year.

But anyway considering you are allowing comparisons now, any chance you could answer my question?

pjohnson wrote: »

Ionannidis seems to have gotten his degree from Walmart Medical School.

If anyone this side of the pond produced those numbers he'd be ridiculed every hour.



He must be responsible for the confusion between vaccination and natural herd immunity.

Seen Sam McConkey on the 9 o clock news last night. Didn't appear to be getting any ridicule.

Boggles wrote: »

So we are back to not being allowed compare.

But you have decided Florida has won the Covid Cup but it's next to impossible to compare anywhere.

As methods go it's flawed wouldn't you agree?

If we are allowed compare for a second, Ireland has done far "better" than Florida, haven't we? And as you have pointed on several occasions, Covid is purely seasonal, so how Ireland a country where it rains 300 days a year "beat" Florida is quite the mystery.

We will ignore the study on excess mortality carried out last week that claimed Florida's death toll was 50,000+.



Florida are the winners, restrictions don't work, the method appears to be 'just cause'.

No I don't think they won the Covid Cup - what an infantile suggestion.

They fared on average the same as anywhere that imposed a hard lock down...which discredits the supposed success of those policies.

And no I do not give any credence to a study about excess mortality given I don't even believe the figures we are told died from Covid.

I don't believe the case numbers are even relevant and never should have been, people who are ill that turn up in a doctors surgery or hospital are the only numbers that matter.

Silentcorner wrote: »

OK Boggles...I'll try to make this as simple as possible.

We have two elements. One - The Virus and Two - The Lock Downs

(I think we are all in agreement with some degree of restrictions)

The Virus behaves differently everywhere, depending on climate, population density, the health of the population and probably a few more I am not aware of....which makes comparisons between countries challenging, we are going to see a different result than India for example.

The Lock Downs (or severe restrictions) don't seem to have made any difference where they have been implemented....there is no evidence that the work, despite the massive social upheaval, economic and health costs, a little odd don't you think.

In fact, I am of the belief that if this virus originated in Germany, we'd never have locked down, we'd have all done what Sweden did.

This is a mind boggling post. Truly astonishing that someone could genuinely hold these opinions after everything we’ve seen.

Silentcorner wrote: »

Florida dropped restrictions last September.
Three months before the first vaccine was approved.

They have fared about average. Same as Sweden has in Europe.

The reason Florida is important is because it demonstrates that lock downs don't have much of an effect on outcomes. The people who supported lock downs should be able to use the carnage in Florida as an example....they can't, there wasn't carnage.

There are plenty more States that have used very light restrictions, Nevada and Utah to name a few, that haven't suffered any differently to States who locked down hard....lock downs do not dictate the outcomes, but we employed one of the longest one's anyway despite our young demographic and our sparse population spread.

And like every one else who criticized lock downs, be they a medic, an academic or a politician, the Governor was slaughtered in the National Media at the time...but any body swallowing what the media are pushing these days would want to take a look at themselves!!!

Bending the truth?. Restrictions in Florida first started to be rolled back in May 2020 - followed by their removal in Sept. This is what happened regarding infection rates following those two key dates



The healthcare services were pushed to the hilt to cope with the subsequent rise in the rate of infection. A rate of infection that didn't see a decline unti vaccination started to take effect in January.

The reason Florida is important is because it does indeed demonstrates that lock downs / restrictions appear to have a very significant effect on outcomes.

Play silly games like DeSantis ("The Governor") and see rapidly rising rates of infection and deaths.

Lucky for him vaccination came along when it did or there likly would not have been such a nice "outcome".

But hey Florida!

Anyone swallowing the nonsense of Florida as some type of poster child would want to take a look at themselves!!!

Deleted User wrote: »

Or Norway/ Denmark to Sweden

Ya, I take that point.

Between all the comparisons you can legitimately make, there is no clear picture either way, except one country or region imposed a very intrusive policy and one is much less intrusive, from an economic and social point of view.

M_Murphy57 wrote: »

Not change the outcome, change our behaviour in response to it.

We all just mindlessly copied chinas response and despite being told the initial lockdown was meant to be a pause to prepare our health service, in ireland it became *literally* our only tool.

I think the point is if, say, sweden had had covid 1st would we all just have copied their response?

Plenty of countries had pandemic plans in place pre covid, ireland included. none of them involved lockdown yet here we are 14 months in not even allowed use antigen tests, but shuttering businesses for months at a time is still considered a good idea here.

Tbf - I don't think anyone followed Chinas unique response of literally shutting down everything, physically locking people into their houses and instigating gulag type restrictions in those areas affected. That and shutting down all transport and building vast holding centres for anyone who had the nearest hint of a sniffle.

Restrictions brought in across Europe following the disaster which unfolded in Italy - were designed to help keep down the rate of infection whilst health services could continue to cope with rising rates of infection. Shuttering non essential businesses was not an end it itself but rather to help refuce infection from indoor environments / close contact/ difficulties in social distancing.

Was the approach used perfect? Far from it imho - but what restrictions did do was give countries breathing space whilst vaccines were developed.

Boggles wrote: »

Nope.

China's response was the most severest of lockdowns locally and then they secured the country.

I don't remember many people cueing for cones in Wuhan like I was last April here.

But you are right, if we had the same regard for human rights as China does, we could have navigated "better".

So much for the human rights of our elderly population who were denied the right to see their loved ones for nearly a year.

California did "better" than Florida with far more densely populated counties.

California 36th
Florida 19th

Rate of infections.

Also California has much higher levels of deprivation than Florida.

Restrictions only really work if you finance them.

America had a dotard in charge who decided to go golfing for the weekend instead of signing an emergency finance bill.

They now have an adult in charge who has made it his priority to end the pandemic as soon as possible.

Either way for the richest country in the world to have 600k dead and 4-5m hospitalized is pretty shameful.

gozunda wrote: »

How does that change things re. the claim made by the OP - that everything was hunkey dorey in Florida once de governor got rid of all the nasty restrictions?

I said Florida fared about average...there was no avoiding this virus, Florida avoided massive economic damage not to mention allowing their citizens enjoy a very near normal, unlike other States who imposed severe restrictions on their citizens and didn't fare any better.

Government extend extraordinary powers til November. Fab.