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The Boggers Log

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    OOnegative wrote: »

    I hope you’re not suggesting I have my tongue up TbL’s arse! Credit where it’s due. And I’m glad he noticed the abseiling comments the last time out and corrected admirably. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Murph_D wrote: »
    I hope you’re not suggesting I have my tongue up TbL’s arse! Credit where it’s due. And I’m glad he noticed the abseiling comments the last time out and corrected admirably. :)

    Not at all, I just don’t like seeing him getting praise. His head is big enough!!!!


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Thats great running! Do you think the unintentional taper might have helped? You keep giving the shoes a lot of credit but they are probably not worth more than 20 seconds tops. I'd be taking credit for the PB if I was you. :)

    Have you genuine worries about a physical reaction?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    Thats great running! Do you think the unintentional taper might have helped? You keep giving the shoes a lot of credit but they are probably not worth more than 20 seconds tops. I'd be taking credit for the PB if I was you. :)

    Have you genuine worries about a physical reaction?

    Thanks S

    I’ve spondylolisthesis (where one of your discs detaches and slips out onto the nerves) and it’s not generally advised to run with it. Two years ago there were days I couldn’t walk it was so bad but I went through a rehab program and it settled down.

    The last few weeks have been rough as it’s been irritating me a fair bit.

    It’s strange coz after a hard session it generally feels great but after a few days it appears to get inflamed and flare. The nerve pain can be anywhere from my arse to my toes!

    I really want to have a crack at one more marathon cycle but it’s a head melt trying to keep the ship afloat and mentally trying knowing that I might have to give up at any point.

    It feels better today than any day this week but that might just be the calm before the storm!

    I’ve a functional movement assessment next week (had one previously from a poster on here but he’s too far away for frequent visits) and hopefully I’ll get a program that help limit the stress on the back.

    If I ever do manage a sub 3 I’ll happily go out to pasture :)

    The taper was probably balanced by the total lack of session quality recently tbh.

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,191 ✭✭✭healy1835


    This prospective pacing gig of mine just keeps getting faster and faster! By the time restrictions are lifted sufficiently for us to do something, you'll probably be racing me :)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Thanks S

    I’ve spondylolisthesis (where one of your discs detaches and slips out onto the nerves) and it’s not generally advised to run with it. Two years ago there were days I couldn’t walk it was so bad but I went through a rehab program and it settled down.

    The last few weeks have been rough as it’s been irritating me a fair bit.

    It’s strange coz after a hard session it generally feels great but after a few days it appears to get inflamed and flare. The nerve pain can be anywhere from my arse to my toes!

    I really want to have a crack at one more marathon cycle but it’s a head melt trying to keep the ship afloat and mentally trying knowing that I might have to give up at any point.

    It feels better today than any day this week but that might just be the calm before the storm!

    I’ve a functional movement assessment next week (had one previously from a poster on here but he’s too far away for frequent visits) and hopefully I’ll get a program that help limit the stress on the back.

    If I ever do manage a sub 3 I’ll happily go out to pasture :)

    The taper was probably balanced by the total lack of session quality recently tbh.

    TbL

    Yeah I have read your backstory and what you are doing now is properly impressive. I just wasn't sure whether something that was hard on the legs, heart and lungs would also stress the back more than other runs. Gimme a year and I'll try for that sub 3 as well :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Not much happening this week and I’m taking that as a positive. Body was no worse after the 5k TT than it was the week before and was probably in a bit better nick.

    Lots of sea swimming, foam rolling, stretching and easy miles was the theme for the week

    Mon: very easy 5k

    Tue: 10k with work running buddy, enjoy these runs as I can have normal conversations rather than having to entertain the madness that runs through my brain when I’m out solo. 6.4 miles @ 7.53

    Wed: easy 5k around the pitch

    Thur: had an early morning start as I was driving to Dublin to get a Functional Movement assessment. Was very happy with this as he identified a number of areas that need serious correction and a few things where we can get quick wins. Have a few basic exercises to start and an appointment every month for the foreseeable. Had some serious car battery range anxiety on the way back and the monitor was telling me I’d only 12k left in the battery before I got to Athlone to charge! Got home a bit frayed but got another easy 5k done.

    Fri: I don’t usually run early in the morning but I’d the physioterrorist at 10 am and she told me she’d be zulu needling me so there’d be no running for 24 hours! Same easy 5k loop as Thurs

    Sat: didn’t get up till after 1pm after going back to bed after walking the dog just after
    7am!! Watched Stoke lose abysmally to QPR, and wasn’t in the best of humour heading out. Had planned on doing 4 miles @ HM pace. Easy two mile warm up followed by 4 miles 6.54; 6.52; 6.48, & 6.46. Effort level felt very high for 4 poxy miles :( Easy mile to cool down, 7 miles in total

    Sun: 8 miles nice and easy on Seanadhpheistin.

    Feel a bit better this week now that I’ve a bit of structure, focus and a plan. I’ve decide to do the Hanson Advanced HM plan for Antrim half at the end of August. (Thanks to Phisto for the plan and documents and Ferris for the pointers). I might have to trim off some of the miles but I’ll see how it goes. I’m going to try and be aggressive and try for 6.40 average for the half.

    I’ll spend the next 3 weeks working on strengthening the body and maybe see if I can land a 5 or 10k race.

    I’ve also run now everyday for the last 6 months

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Excellent. I had very good results from that HM plan a few years ago and found it transitioned excellently into some marathon work too. Read the book though - don't just rely on the schedules. Ferris probably told you that too. :p Best of luck with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Excellent. I had very good results from that HM plan a few years ago and found it transitioned excellently into some marathon work too. Read the book though - don't just rely on the schedules. Ferris probably told you that too. :p Best of luck with it.

    Thanks D.

    There’s a book...???

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Hanson’s Half Marathon Method. You’ll find it in most online bookshops. You can also get a more customised plan and online coaching from http://lukehumphreyrunning.com if that’s more your thing - not sure how it works normally but might be worth checking out if book training isn’t your thing. I’d still read the book though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭MrMacPhisto


    Murph_D wrote: »
    Hanson’s Half Marathon Method. You’ll find it in most online bookshops. You can also get a more customised plan and online coaching from http://lukehumphreyrunning.com if that’s more your thing - not sure how it works normally but might be worth checking out if book training isn’t your thing. I’d still read the book though.

    The books are well worth a read, however I think all the main details are in the info booklet I sent ya. The books are a padded out version of that. It would be no harm buying a hard copy of the latest version of the marathon or half book too read at your leisure and to dip in and out of.

    I found Humphrey's training pace and race predictor calculator pretty useful. It provides an easy way to see the target paces for the specific Hanson workout paces (speed, strength, tempo). I would also have a look at his blog on the website, he explains (in a boring monotone way) some of the workouts, which can fill in some of the grey areas.

    One of those grey areas for me was the Sunday run. Sometimes it would say LR and sometimes ER. He suggests that the ER version should start at EASY pace and finish closer to MODERATE. And the LR days should start at MODERATE pace and finishing closer to the prescribed LONG RUN pace.

    https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php

    Best of luck with the plan, I hope it serves you well :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    The books are well worth a read, however I think all the main details are in the info booklet I sent ya. The books are a padded out version of that. It would be no harm buying a hard copy of the latest version of the marathon or half book too read at your leisure and to dip in and out of.

    I found Humphrey's training pace and race predictor calculator pretty useful. It provides an easy way to see the target paces for the specific Hanson workout paces (speed, strength, tempo). I would also have a look at his blog on the website, he explains (in a boring monotone way) some of the workouts, which can fill in some of the grey areas.

    One of those grey areas for me was the Sunday run. Sometimes it would say LR and sometimes ER. He suggests that the ER version should start at EASY pace and finish closer to MODERATE. And the LR days should start at MODERATE pace and finishing closer to the prescribed LONG RUN pace.

    https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php

    Best of luck with the plan, I hope it serves you well :)

    Thanks K, that calculator and the attendant paces was very helpful. Predicts a 3.01 marathon for me :)

    Tang has kindly just posted me the HM book too.

    This place is very helpful, anyone got spare legs :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Nothing exciting this week, I made a conscious decision to drop any session and concentrate on trying to slowly build up the mileage, in advance of starting the HM plan in a few weeks. This weeks target was 40 miles.

    After my recent functional movement assessment I got the video clips of me “running” on one of those self propelled treadmill yokes. It was like an X rated horror movie, I’d expected I’d be closer to PG after all the work I’ve put in, but I’ve a long way to go :(

    Mon: 5k very easy

    Tue: didn’t want to go out today, really not in the humour. Headed up to the pitch and listening to the Doors helped me get 4 miles easy done

    Wed: work buddy 10k @ 7.47 pace. Was surprisingly tired and lethargic after this.

    Thur: just over 5 miles easy, the young lad provided a bike escort to keep me company

    Fri: 6 miles easy with my daughter.

    Sat: 7 miles round and around the pitch

    Sun: didn’t feel great with an upset stomach when I got up, but got 8 miles easy done @ 8.30.

    45 miles target for next week

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    X-rated...... Send videos please!!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,476 ✭✭✭Comic Book Guy


    OOnegative wrote: »
    X-rated...... Send videos please!!!!!

    Was just thinking was he not supposed to wear shorts for the treadmill run!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Was just thinking was he not supposed to wear shorts for the treadmill run!

    Now all the pointing and sniggering makes sense...:)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    OOnegative wrote: »
    X-rated...... Send videos please!!!!!


    So, if I have this right, B is asking to see xrated videos of TBL?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    So, if I have this right, B is asking to see xrated videos of TBL?

    Nothing new in that A!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    So, if I have this right, B is asking to see xrated videos of TBL?

    Don’t know what you’re on about, you starred in the movie :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    So two different news stories this week confirmed what I already suspected, the worlds gone mad:

    “Anal breathing, researchers hope to test it in humans”, no if this was in some obscure science paper it mightn’t cost you a though but this was on the State media’s website!!! Apparently rats and certain sea creatures can breath through their anus and there might be benefits to humans being able to replicate that. I seriously doubt that, Tangs been talking out his arse for years with no benefit to humanity :)
    Penny’s appointment slots being sold for €300, sweet Jesus are people really that naive/daft! Isn’t the place open properly tomorrow and wouldn’t you have been able to buy half their stock with €300 rather than give someone €300 for a 45 minute sweep around Penny’s. It’s not exactly a Harrods VIP shopping experience:(

    Anyway back to reality.

    This week I wanted to increase the mileage to at least 45 miles and add in a session.

    All very easy running and got a double 6.5/3.5 miles done on Wednesday

    Had to can the session on Saturday because of a tight and slightly swollen vastus med, so I took advantage of the good weather and the back behaving to get 10 easy miles done @ 9.30 pace.

    On Sunday I headed out with my daughter for 5 miles and as I was feeling ok I decide to continue on and get my first back to back double digit run done in years. 10 @ 9.14 with the second half averaged about 8.30.

    Very happy with the way the week went with just under 52 miles.

    Just need to be able to incorporate some speed work. The mileage will probably drop over the next two weeks and I’ll try some faster stuff

    TbL


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Mental few weeks, the company I work for was going through the end phases of a buyout and I was incredibly busy. Running has seen zero quality in fact I haven’t run fast since the 5k TT :(

    The only upside is the body feels the best it has in ages and my easy pace is coming down. I’m hoping to get a session done on Wednesday (negative PCR test permitting) and use it as the first session for my 12 week HM plan.



    Mon 17th: post physioterrorist bashing 4m recovery was very tender

    Tue: pre jab jog 5 m @ 8.24

    Wed: post jab 6.5m @ 8.05

    Thur: was up and down to Dublin (another functional movement session) was very tired and stiff so only managed a 5k recovery

    Fri: enjoyable 5 m plod.

    Sat: 6m easy jog @ 8.33

    Sun: had to drive into Galway to get a PCR test. My god the woman doing it must have been having a bad day, she swabbed my throat sticking the swab into my tonsils and then stuck it so far up my nose I’d swear my eyeballs bulged!!! I looked like Marty Feldman and it was seriously unpleasant.

    Drove to Dangan and got 5.45 easy miles @8.33 done, nice day for it.

    Loads of boy racers converged in Salthill and as I was driving home someone must have taken a picture because my car appeared on their Facebook page “Salthill Sunday’s.” I was getting the absolute piss pulled outta me and one of my friends dropped a furry dice up to the house for me :)

    Mon: up at 4am to drive to Belfast for work, was staying overnight in the Merchant hotel. Was great to be able to have a relatively normal meal indoors in a restaurant rather than sitting in my car with a styrofoam box of takeaway!! Managed to get just over 4 miles done along the river.

    Tue: had to be up early as I was flying to Italy for work, got another 3 miles easy done around 5.30 am. I’d parked in a public car park across from the hotel and when I went over to get the car the place was locked up, 30 minutes later I got the car but the stress levels were high and I almost missed my flight as I had to also stop to charge the car. Was surprised how busy the flight was. Had thought I might try another run but by the time I got to the hotel I was zonked and just hit the scratcher.

    Wed: lovely and warm and sunny in Milan. In between meetings I got a small jogging map from the hotel concierge and headed to Giardini Indro Montanelli, a small park about 1.5k away from the hotel. You’ve to wear masks outside in Italy but can take them off while running! I got to the park with only a couple of hitches and there was a fair few runners out and about. There were numerous entrances/exits to the park and I obviously took the wrong one out coz I got completely lost and as a result the run was very stop/start. 10k easy.

    Had another PCR test and while not pleasant at least she didn’t loosen my eyeballs!!

    I also changed hotels for the night moving to what was supposedly one of the best hotels in Milan, The Bvlgari. I had a decent lunch al fresco there and we had a 17 course tasting menu for the evening meal. The hotel was ridiculously expensive and completely underwhelming :(

    Thur: back to the Hyatt hotel and another easy 4 miles around the park. Put the phone in one of the hotels sanitary bags and used Google maps to get back!

    Had a really really good meal out in a restaurant recommended by the hotel, the food was fantastic although not eating carbs and having to forego some of the pasta dishes my colleagues were gorging on was tough!

    Fri: woke up and my neck and right shoulder was rigid. On the way to a meeting on Thursday the taxi driver slapped on the brakes and swerved to avoid another car, I could feel a little jarring in my neck but thought no more about it, but I knew all bout it on Friday!

    I decided that after a nice breakfast on the hotels rooftop that I’d try a run in Parc Sempione that was established in 1888. It was further away that the other park but looked much bigger. Took me a half an hour to walk there and while it was a beautiful setting for a run and the place was full of runners I absolutely despised every second of this run and it took ever ounce of willpower to even get to 5k (very easy). Slow 30 mins walk back to the hotel.

    The Milanese are such a stylish people and the food is superb but the city is a **** hole, it’s filthy dirty, the roads and paths are like a 3rd world country’s and the drivers are obnoxious dangerous dicks! There’s also very limited running options although I don’t remember things were as bad the last time I was there but I wouldn’t be rushing back!

    Sat: home isolation (and another antigen test) meant over 30 laps of the tarred path around the back garden to get 5k done :(

    Sun: same as above just ran the other direction

    Mon: same as above just changed direction half way :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    100% agree with you on Milan, food was absolutely superb anywhere we ate but it was filthy dirty. I ran in Parco Lambro most of the week we were there, any solid structure(bin, bench, bridge etc) was destroyed with graffiti. The lovely river running through it was completely filled with plastic bags or shopping trolleys.

    Himself and myself done a tour of the San Siro one day, area around it was completely desolate and run down. But for some reason I enjoyed the visit as did herself, easily please a man from the bog & a farmer’s daughter!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    Jaysus it's the life of Riley you have;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    That’s the Bvlgari off my list anyway. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,236 ✭✭✭AuldManKing


    Sat: home isolation (and another antigen test) meant over 30 laps of the tarred path around the back garden to get 5k done :(



    TbL

    Great to see these updates - normality slowly coming back.

    You must have been only been using the East wing of the Garden??


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Great to see these updates - normality slowly coming back.

    You must have been only been using the East wing of the Garden??

    Indeed A, unfortunately the pool was being extended and the tennis court being relaid on the West wing :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Week 1/12 of Hanson’s HM plan.

    Already I know, I won’t be able for the plans mileage, I’ll need to trim back some easy run mileage. I’m cutting it fine, I’d hope to give myself 13-14 weeks for this if I needed a step back week. I’m not as fit as I thought I was and I’ve no stamina. Apart from that all good :)

    Mon: quarantine 5k around the garden

    Tue: quarantine 5k the other way around the garden.

    Wed: plan was 3 mile wu/cd with 3 x 1 miles at 5-10k pace off 800m jog. There was no way on gods earth I would be able for this at 5k pace so I settled on around 6.30. Did this on the trails in Dangan to lessen the impact on the back and I’ll probably try and do all the faster sessions in there.

    Did a 1.5 mile warm up and hit the mile around the double pitch. Was fairly happy with this as it’s been weeks and weeks since I’ve done any faster stuff.

    Splits 6.26, 6.28 & 6.23

    Total 7.3m

    Thur: was up in Dublin for another functional movement session. Morto, got ditched by the running cat walk model for two wrinkley OAP’s :) so didn’t get to run till I got back home and I was tired.

    5k easy.

    These sessions seem to be helping and a simple readjustment to my pelvic position has reduced my pain by about 20%

    Fri: 10k with a work buddy @ 7.56, felt surprisingly good.

    Sat: back to earth with a bag. Plan was for 3 wu/cd with 4 miles at HM pace. I’m aiming high for Antrim and hoping to average 6.40 pace, but if this was anything to go by I’m way off! Never comfortable and completely caved towards the end. After the 4 miles I actually walked in shock for a bit.

    Splits: 6.51; 6.46; 7.00 & 7.03

    Slow miserable plod home thinking I’m doomed! 7 miles in total

    Sun: plan was for 12 mile LR. Would have been happy anything above 10 but I managed the 12 ok. Lovely day for it.

    12 miles @ 8.26

    42 miles for the week.

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    Ooh another Hanson plan :) Good start, getting through it. You will get stronger and believe a bit more that you can do it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭Diablo Verde



    Sat: back to earth with a bag. Plan was for 3 wu/cd with 4 miles at HM pace. I’m aiming high for Antrim and hoping to average 6.40 pace, but if this was anything to go by I’m way off! Never comfortable and completely caved towards the end. After the 4 miles I actually walked in shock for a bit.

    Splits: 6.51; 6.46; 7.00 & 7.03

    Slow miserable plod home thinking I’m doomed! 7 miles in total

    The very same thing happened to me the first time I did this plan. Got about 3 miles in and I was done. Almost came to an absolute standstill at that point. I was pissed of with myself but just got the head down for a few weeks after that and kept going with the plan. The next time I went at it, I nailed the session and haven't really looked back since. Sometimes things are just off.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    The very same thing happened to me the first time I did this plan. Got about 3 miles in and I was done. Almost came to an absolute standstill at that point. I was pissed of with myself but just got the head down for a few weeks after that and kept going with the plan. The next time I went at it, I nailed the session and haven't really looked back since. Sometimes things are just off.

    Thanks DV, I think the next 3 weeks have 5 miles @ HM pace and I’ll need to see improvement from a confidence perspective.

    Completely surprised me given I managed the faster session comfortably enough, just seems like I’ve currently no stamina!

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,501 ✭✭✭Laineyfrecks


    I'd put it down to a bad day & move on! We all have them hopefully the next session will give you a bit of confidence! Best of luck with the plan :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    I don't really know much about Hansen plans but are those sessions meant to be run at target pace or current fitness level?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    I don't really know much about Hansen plans but are those sessions meant to be run at target pace or current fitness level?

    They are meant to be run at goal pace, but the goal is supposed to be realistic based on a recent performance - TbL at least has a recent 5k to go on which should be a reasonable indicator given his vast experience. The first few HMP tempo sessions can be difficult alright. This schedule is more difficult than the 18-week version which has a gentler introduction (three weeks of 3m @ HMP for that session).


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Murph_D wrote: »
    They are meant to be run at goal pace, but the goal is supposed to be realistic based on a recent performance - TbL at least has a recent 5k to go on which should be a reasonable indicator given his vast experience. The first few can be difficult alright. This schedule is more difficult than the 18-week version which has a gentler introduction (three weeks of 3m @ HMP for that session).


    Thanks D

    I was wondering this too, but I reckoned it must be goal pace as there’s no transition of paces. Anyway I’m hoping on the day I won’t be too far away from 6.40 pace :)

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Look back at Ferris's virtual DCM last year - a sub-3 at 53 off generic Hanson method, but conservative about goal pace in the early stages of the plan.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Week 2/12 Hanson’s HM plan.

    Man this is tough!

    I think the fast 5k TT I did a few weeks ago gave me a completely inflated sense of my fitness levels and ability. I thought I’d sail through this plan and easily manage sub 90 for the Half so I set a target of 6.40 average pace. It’s a bit early to be doubting oneself and I’ll stick with the 6.40 average for now…

    Mon: body was a little weary after the weekend’s running and I left it till late in the evening to go out in miserable rainy weather.

    Plan called for 10 miles easy, got 4 miles easy done finishing up at the pitch where my daughter was playing for the senior women. She scored 4 lovely points and I got soaked to the skin!

    Tue: plan 8 miles easy
    Actual 5 miles easy, I actually felt like I was going to vomit throughout this run but managed to get it done and went to bed very early.

    Wed: plan 6x1k @ 5-10k pace off 400m jog.
    Headed into Dangan to do this and I didn’t feel too fazed by this after last weeks 3x1 mile, however that soon changed. Got a 1.5 mile warm up done and then hit the double pitch for the reps. First two were awful, 3rd and 4th slightly better and 5th and 6th were hell, I actually struggled to finish the 6th one, almost stopping to walk with 200m to go :( Way way tougher than last weeks 3x1 mile session, the only consolation being I finished it.

    Rep paces: 6.17; 6.18; 6.15; 6.25; 6.22; 6.26

    Death march 1 mile cool down plod!

    I’ve got to do 5 miles @ HM pace in the next 2/3 days and I’m dreading it after the fail at 4 miles last Saturday but I’ll plod on and hope to find some strength and fitness over the next two weeks. If I don’t see improvement then I’ll drop my target.

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,834 ✭✭✭OOnegative


    Don’t be afraid to drop ten seconds or so off goal pace in training C, most of the Tempo/LT stuff I done for my last half was ten seconds slower than the pace I ran for the actual half. Race day atmosphere and adrenaline come into play on the day.

    Plus I’m younger, faster and much better looking than you!!!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,208 ✭✭✭shotgunmcos


    The whole ethos of the Hanson method is dialing your goal pace in, on fatigued legs, body and mind.

    OONeg makes sense (apart from the good looking bit :p) but the fatigue and "dread" of the key goal pace sessions are hallmarks of the method.

    Stick with it and get it done. In the Hanson thread on the main forum I mentioned that you need a base and its going to be tough anyway.
    .....However the method is tough and you need to be ready for it. Ideally you will get a base fitness together as the "Sessions of substance" begin in earnest week 2.

    The 5 mile is really your key session, not the 6x1k, which is a tough one in its own right. The Hansons workouts come thick and fast. Its all about recovery between them. Take that seriously, execute the workouts and you will feel tired but great. On the day, it will pay back in spades. The goal pace will feel comfortable and when it gets tough, you will smile knowing you have pushed through tougher in training. :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Some (myself included) use a heart rate monitor on the tempo runs to check if the chosen pace is sustainable. If the HR is climbing to LT and beyond in the second half of the tempos, for instance, it would suggest you’re not there yet (plenty of advice on the dedicated Hanson thread).

    I’m not suggesting this is the case, by the way. And I wouldn’t be too disheartened by a tough speed session, especially on grass. Again, you might try thinking 5-10k effort rather than pace (although I know you like to keep it simple).

    You’re right - it’s a tough plan. But you’re a tough old bogger too. ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Thanks for the posts and messages guys, great stuff.

    I’m going to stick with the plan for another two weeks, I’ll trim the easy mileage but stick with the two sessions and the LR.

    There are HMP 5 & 6 mile runs every week for the next few weeks and I won’t sweat it if I don’t average 6.40 pace, but I’d ideally like to see me come closer to it.

    If in 2 weeks I’m not coping I’ll drop into the last 8 weeks of the Hanson 18 week plan, that seems a little less intense.

    Thanks ����

    TbL


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,582 ✭✭✭Swashbuckler


    I'm sure this will prove an unpopular comment as I'm dragging the shoes back into the conversation but are you basing your target pace off the 5K in the Alphafly? And are you now back training in your trusty Vomero's?

    I know a few good deals if you fancy upgrading to some better training shoes ;)

    (Not that I disagree with any of the good advice above). Just something to think about.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    I'm sure this will prove an unpopular comment as I'm dragging the shoes back into the conversation but are you basing your target pace off the 5K in the Alphafly? And are you now back training in your trusty Vomero's?

    I know a few good deals if you fancy upgrading to some better training shoes ;)

    (Not that I disagree with any of the good advice above). Just something to think about.

    Yep P the 5k was in the magic carpets and I know they helped with the time but I was still expecting to do the sessions a bit quicker even in the clogs!

    I think I’ll stick with the Vomero and think of their extra weight as a training aid :)

    I’ll only wear the Aplhaflys for racing

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    Completed week 2/12 Hanson’s HM plan.

    Still a shock to the system but I’m just going to suck it up and do my best to get through it.

    Plan weekly miles: 56
    Actual miles: almost 49

    Thur: body was very tired and stiff after Wednesdays session, only managed 4 miles very gentle recovery with my daughter.

    Fri: young lad had a GA match in Westside, so I parked up and just plodded along local roads. Hamstring was very tight so took it handy. Got 5 miles easy done.

    Sat: plan session wu/cd with 5 miles @ HMP. Was very wary of this after last Saturdays 4 mile equivalent where I completely died. Spent a lot more time stretching and trying to convince myself I could do the session. Got 1.5 miles warm up done and started into the faster stuff. The first mile came in slower than last weeks first mile but I wasn’t overly concerned as I was hoping for a better overall average pace.

    Mile 2 & 3 were the best of the lot, mile 4 wasn’t comfortable but not dying however I did start to fade on mile 5 and was a bit disappointed with the split. Walked for a couple of mins before jogging home for just over 8.6 miles.

    Splits: 6.47; 6.41; 6.41; 6.47 & 6.54

    Still a good chunk off the planned HMP (6.40) but I’m going to continue with that goal and see where it takes me.

    Sun: plan was for 14 mile LR. My daughter was doing 12k and asked me to do the first bit with her, didn’t really suit me as I didn’t want to be out on my feet for over 2 hours but I’ve spent ages encouraging her to get into the running (and she’s doing her own HM plan) so I didn’t want to let her down.

    Plodded around the first 10k with her around 10.30 pace before finishing up the 14 miles in almost 2.20. Longer on my hoofs than I wanted but hopefully it’ll help with the stamina.

    3 x 1 hour functional strength routines this week

    Heading to Waterford on Wednesday for 10 days so hoping to find some decent running routes!

    TbL


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,484 ✭✭✭✭Murph_D


    Good point on the pre-tempo stretches. We had a good Hanson group going last year and one of the features was getting in a good dynamic warmup pre-session, whether the specific Hanson-specified routine or something equally undignified. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    OK C I'll say something here at risk of upsetting the Cult of Hanson :pac: There is no magic plan that suits everyone. If there was then Daniels, Tinman, Salazar et al would have signed on the dole. Stazza wouldn't have a crew, Swashbuckler would be on board and AMK wouldn't be changing plans and coaches monthly, Different styles of training suit different people. The thoughts of sucking up 14 weeks of uncomfortable and worrying training in the hope of the big pay day wouldn't be for me. Don't be afraid to tweak it so that you can enjoy it. That would be the least you deserve after everything you have been through.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭ThebitterLemon


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    OK C I'll say something here at risk of upsetting the Cult of Hanson :pac: There is no magic plan that suits everyone. If there was then Daniels, Tinman, Salazar et al would have signed on the dole. Stazza wouldn't have a crew, Swashbuckler would be on board and AMK wouldn't be changing plans and coaches monthly, Different styles of training suit different people. The thoughts of sucking up 14 weeks of uncomfortable and worrying training in the hope of the big pay day wouldn't be for me. Don't be afraid to tweak it so that you can enjoy it. That would be the least you deserve after everything you have been through.

    Thanks S

    In a way I’m kinda lost/in no mans land without L to guide. I used just look at his e mail and run whatever was in front of me without question as it always seemed to suit/improve me.

    I’m already trimming the easy miles of the Hanson plan as I don’t think I need that volume for a half (hoping years of muscle memory mileage kicks in)

    I’m trying to stick to the two sessions and the LR. The first session is the faster repeats and surprisingly I’m finding this marginally easier than the HMP tempos! I won’t sweat it if the pace is a bit off for another few weeks as I build up some stamina.

    I might be delusional but I really wouldn’t be happy with just dipping under 90 mins after 12 weeks of training.

    I do like the plans simplicity and that stopped me tinkering with the sessions as I’d only be making it up as I go along. (I know less than nothing about coaching)

    Thanks

    TbL


  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭MrMacPhisto


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    OK C I'll say something here at risk of upsetting the Cult of Hanson :pac: There is no magic plan that suits everyone. If there was then Daniels, Tinman, Salazar et al would have signed on the dole. Stazza wouldn't have a crew, Swashbuckler would be on board and AMK wouldn't be changing plans and coaches monthly, Different styles of training suit different people. The thoughts of sucking up 14 weeks of uncomfortable and worrying training in the hope of the big pay day wouldn't be for me. Don't be afraid to tweak it so that you can enjoy it. That would be the least you deserve after everything you have been through.

    I am an aforementioned Hanson cult member. I absolutely agree with Skyblue's sentiment, but......

    It is only week 2. It is a tough plan. It is simple and there is no hiding. It may or may not suit you but if you don't stick with it, you will never know.

    From my experience, tempo race pace sessions are never easy. The next two weeks are the same 5 mile HMP sessions. Just when you are about to feel like you are getting to grips, the following week will break your heart with an extra mile added. Thats the progression.

    The shift to strength sessions compared to 5-10k speed will be a breath of fresh air when you arrive there. I would be inclined to run your speed workouts closer to 10k pace rather than 5k. I also think Swashbuckler has a good point re the shoes. The Saucony Endorphin speed is a great shoe for tempo and speed sessions (around 130 euro in some places). The vomeros are great for the easy stuff but something different might give you a psychological edge for the tougher days. Keep the magic ones for racing :D

    After the 12 weeks, and a race to track your progress, then make a judgement call on whether it is the plan or style of training for you going forward.

    As Skyblue says, there are plenty of ways to skin this particular cat etc but ya won't know unless ya give it a good go. :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 63 ✭✭Mar Azul


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    OK C I'll say something here at risk of upsetting the Cult of Hanson :pac: There is no magic plan that suits everyone. If there was then Daniels, Tinman, Salazar et al would have signed on the dole. Stazza wouldn't have a crew, Swashbuckler would be on board and AMK wouldn't be changing plans and coaches monthly, Different styles of training suit different people. The thoughts of sucking up 14 weeks of uncomfortable and worrying training in the hope of the big pay day wouldn't be for me. Don't be afraid to tweak it so that you can enjoy it. That would be the least you deserve after everything you have been through.

    I think you make an excellent point but I feel sticking with it will stand to him. It's only one training block. It may identify some weakness in his running and help develop it, whether it be physical or perhaps even the mental side.
    He may learn more about what type of runner he is and post Hanson make changes accordingly.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,807 ✭✭✭skyblue46


    Mar Azul wrote: »
    I think you make an excellent point but I feel sticking with it will stand to him. It's only one training block. It may identify some weakness in his running and help develop it, whether it be physical or perhaps even the mental side.
    He may learn more about what type of runner he is and post Hanson make changes accordingly.

    True. I'm primarily taking his recent history into account. Also as a fellow 50 something I understand that "only one training block" might mean one of ones last handful of chances to improve. :pac: After losing 6 months to PF I just want to be able to run. A plan that pushes me to the point of failing wouldn't be for me.

    Edit: I also feel that Hanson is totally alien to the style of coaching C got from L.


  • Registered Users Posts: 343 ✭✭MrMacPhisto


    skyblue46 wrote: »
    True. I'm primarily taking his recent history into account. Also as a fellow 50 something I understand that "only one training block" might mean one of ones last handful of chances to improve. :pac: After losing 6 months to PF I just want to be able to run. A plan that pushes me to the point of failing wouldn't be for me.

    Very good points.

    I think Itziger might be a good man to chime in here, given his relatively recent experience and his Sensei age bracket. If I recall correctly, he was struggling a little bit with the 2 sessions and moderate pace Long Run each week.

    Dialling back the LR pace to more easy running pace while increasing the gap between session days by an extra day would be something I might consider as a master runner. The money in the plan is the tempo race pace days and the strength sessions.

    I think TBL is probably pretty good at listening to the body at this point. These plans do approach red lines at points so that is something that really needs to be watched.

    I think at +50, trying a different plan is very much a good idea, especially if you are trying to find something to bring you to a new level.


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