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Lions Tour

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    #1322
    Richie_Rich89
    Registered Users Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭Richie_Rich89


    Gatland could have even better results if he'd had more luck. Imagine getting to a World Cup semi and having a player red carded.


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    #1323
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭TRC10


    molloyjh wrote: »
    He has, but while he has had a lot of success he has also had a lot of poor results too.

    Wales under him were either winning the 6Ns or coming 4th or 5th effectively. And they did a lot more of the latter. They couldn't buy a win against SH opposition for years.

    Even with the Lions in Australia against what was at that stage one of the worst Aussie sides I'd seen, the series was on an absolute knife edge until the final test where Australia's lack of depth told and the Lions were finally able to cut loose a bit (Australia lost 3 guys to injury in the first half and had a yellow card). The first 2 Tests were 1 score games with the Lions winning the first and Australia winning the second. In the first Beale missed 2 kicks in the last 10 to win it for Australia, slipping for one of those.

    The Lions went well in NZ and Wales had a few very successful 6Ns campaigns. But it wasn't all roses for Gatland and he could very easily have lost the series in Australia in 2013 in the first 2 Tests. He's a very good coach, but I think it's also fair to say that he has his limitations too.

    EDIT: Actually as bilston pointed out he could very easily have lost the series in NZ 4 years ago too with that controversial refereeing decision at the end.

    Gatland's record at World Cups is the most impressive. He was incredibly unlucky not to have gotten Wales into 2 World Cup finals (2011 and 2019). And remember him effectively knocking England out of their own World Cup while missing half his team.

    Compare that to Joe Schmidt's record at World Cups, and we all worship Joe on this side of the pond. Gatland is probably the greatest coach ever and is criminally under-appreciated. If there's one thing that cannot be said about Gatland, it's that he's "lucky".


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    #1324
    molloyjh
    Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    TRC10 wrote: »
    Gatland's record at World Cups is the most impressive. He was incredibly unlucky not to have gotten Wales into 2 World Cup finals (2011 and 2019). And remember him effectively knocking England out of their own World Cup while missing half his team.

    Compare that to Joe Schmidt's record at World Cups, and we all worship Joe on this side of the pond. Gatland is probably the greatest coach ever and is criminally under-appreciated. If there's one thing that cannot be said about Gatland, it's that he's "lucky".

    As has already been said, that's not what OldRio was saying. And I was clear in saying I don't think that either. Why do people insist on arguing against something that was never being said!?


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    #1325
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Molloy, why do you hate Gatland so much.

    I thought Buer's hatred towards John Hayes couldn't be matched. I was wrong.


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    #1326
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 10,049 ✭✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    i think Gatlands greatest ability as a coach is his ability to motivate a team. There was a self belief about Welsh teams that I would have killed for Ireland to have. Any time they had to go to Paris for a GS, or to Twickenham, I fully believed they would do it. In comparison, Irish teams have repeatedly failed to raise themselves for the biggest games.

    For all the luck he's undoubtedly had at times, you also have to remember all the tests Wales lost at the death. How many times against Australia, or SA? It was practically a meme.


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    #1327
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,307 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    https://twitter.com/TelegraphRugby/status/1391415940189937665?s=19


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    #1328
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,197 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    thomond2006 wrote: »
    I thought Buer's hatred towards John Hayes couldn't be matched. I was wrong.

    Mike Brown trying to emulate John Hayes today, I see.

    Wasn't quite as effective though.


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    #1329
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭TRC10


    molloyjh wrote: »
    As has already been said, that's not what OldRio was saying. And I was clear in saying I don't think that either. Why do people insist on arguing against something that was never being said!?

    He said Gatland was "lucky".

    Yeah he probably has had some luck over the years....but so has every coach ever.

    He's no luckier than any other coach.


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    #1330
    Sheep Shagger
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 6,263 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sheep Shagger


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    https://twitter.com/TelegraphRugby/status/1391415940189937665?s=19

    Apart from that game Sky have announced they are exclusive broadcaster? Alex Payne coming out of retirement for it he said lol


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    #1331
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users Posts: 8,344 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    So... is Sam Simmons a Lion?


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    #1332
    Shaka Hislop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭Shaka Hislop


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    So... is Sam Simmons a Lion?

    No absolutely not.


    Sam Simmonds though... different matter

    I'm sorry... couldn't resist :D


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    #1333
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    So... is Sam Simmons a Lion?

    I think he should take over coaching the backs, while also captaining the side on their tour.


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    #1334
    MaybeMaybe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,297 ✭✭✭MaybeMaybe


    do they get their number the moment they take the pitch for their first game?


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    #1335
    nerd69
    Registered Users Posts: 9,775 ✭✭✭nerd69


    Jesus Stuart Hogg can't rip teams apart and Simmonds is no good because the premiership and European cup apparently only consist of Newcastle and worcester nice to know who the crazies are early


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    #1336
    TRC10
    Registered Users Posts: 3,910 ✭✭✭TRC10


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    So... is Sam Simmons a Lion?

    Stop it. Stop it right now


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    #1337
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Dubinusa wrote: »
    So... is Sam Simmons a Lion?

    No.

    He’s a chief


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    #1338
    theVersatile
    Registered Users Posts: 2,059 ✭✭✭theVersatile


    Is Tomas O Leary a Lion?


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    #1339
    Captain_Crash
    Registered Users Posts: 2,672 ✭✭✭Captain_Crash


    MaybeMaybe wrote: »
    do they get their number the moment they take the pitch for their first game?

    Yeah, and if two players are making their fist appearance in the same game their Lion number is given in order of shirt number on the day!

    So it’s let’s say we have #809 and #810 on the same day, and one debut was a hooker and the other a full back, then the hooker is Lion #809


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    #1340
    Shaka Hislop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭Shaka Hislop


    theVersatile wrote: »
    Is Tomas O Leary a Lion?

    Unfortunately, no


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    #1341
    OneLungDavy
    Registered Users Posts: 367 ✭✭OneLungDavy


    I'm sick of hearing about Sam Simmonds already. Can't wait to hear the English media creaming themselves when he scores a try on tour.


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    #1342
    Boscoirl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭Boscoirl


    What about Neil Francis?


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    #1343
    Shaka Hislop
    Closed Accounts Posts: 486 ✭✭Shaka Hislop


    Boscoirl wrote: »
    What about Neil Francis?

    We're sick of him too


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    #1344
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Boscoirl wrote: »
    What about Neil Francis?


    Instead of Alan wyn jones?


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    #1345
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,033 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    In general though you'd have to think the saffas have a huge psychological advantage. Their country is suffering, they are at home, they haven't played in ages and obviously they aren't a completely newly constructed team as usual.

    The lions have to go there, under intense covid restrictions, no fans with them(maybe family?) After a long season. It will be incredibly tough.


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    #1346
    Blut2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,947 ✭✭✭Blut2


    That assumes the Lions actually go down to SA. At this stage I think the predictions/odds are the games are going to be played in the UK.


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    #1347
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    Blut2 wrote: »
    That assumes the Lions actually go down to SA. At this stage I think the predictions/odds are the games are going to be played in the UK.

    That ship has sailed. They committed to the tour ages ago.


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    #1348
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,534 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    joseywhales wrote: »
    In general though you'd have to think the saffas have a huge psychological advantage. Their country is suffering, they are at home, they haven't played in ages and obviously they aren't a completely newly constructed team as usual.

    The lions have to go there, under intense covid restrictions, no fans with them(maybe family?) After a long season. It will be incredibly tough.



    Naw. SA are going to get hosed.


    You can’t not play international rugby that long and expect to be competitive at that level.


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    #1349
    dor843088
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭dor843088


    Just goes to show how much some view certain leinster players through rose tinted glasses. Gatland was asked about Ryan on off the ball a while ago and barely knew who he was. If Ringrose was at Connaught and Aki was at Leinster Ringrose would be a nobody and Aki would be a legend. Same goes for Carty and Ross Byrne.


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    #1350
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,620 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Just goes to show how much some view certain leinster players through rose tinted glasses. Gatland was asked about Ryan on off the ball a while ago and barely knew who he was. If Ringrose was at Connaught and Aki was at Leinster Ringrose would be a nobody and Aki would be a legend. Same goes for Carty and Ross Byrne.

    So you're saying that Gatland doesn't know who one of the starting locks for Ireland for the past couple years, who started in two Champions Cup finals as well as winning MOTM in the 2018 final, Irish Player of the year in 2019.

    Riiiiiiight.


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    #1351
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    dor843088 wrote: »
    Just goes to show how much some view certain leinster players through rose tinted glasses. Gatland was asked about Ryan on off the ball a while ago and barely knew who he was.

    That just didn’t happen.


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