Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

KanyeSouthEast · 10-05-2021 12:50PM

Honest to God when I finally get away out of here all of this absolute nonsense from our Govt and their cheerleaders will make each and every trip all the more sweeter. Outdoor summer is working out well so far too it’s feckin raining for the last fortnight pretty much.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 10-05-2021 12:54PM

Red Silurian wrote: »

The actual experts are concerned about a number of the variants so the fear around them is actually quite real, or do you mean the "expert" that gives you the answer you want?

I'm aware that there are ongoing studies being carried out on variants. At the moment we have several variants 'of concern'. My hope is that in time, through scientific analysis, that the unknowns that make them 'variants of concern' will be understood. Then decisions can be made based on scientific data, rather than the opinions of NPHET. I'm not trying to downplay their dangers, I'm not one of the 'bad flu' brigade, but I hope that the 'variants' can be separated from the 'scariants'.

Van.Bosch · 10-05-2021 01:18PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The response to my previous complaint included the following (emphasis mine):

"In addition, we understand that currently, within Ireland, people cannot, without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries. These provisions are complemented by a prohibition on non-essential travel abroad. If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement, it does not seem to be disproportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. In such a case, it seems difficult to argue that a Member State would not be allowed to ensure the respect of legal obligations and prohibitions. However, any fees should remain proportionate to the alleged offence and be adapted to the national framework for such related offences."

I don't think it's unreasonable to argue that now the 20km/county restrictions are gone, the restrictions on travel to other member states are no longer proportionate.

How long did it take the EU / EC to reply out of curiosity?

iris98 · 10-05-2021 01:25PM

Has anyone been able to source a home test kit in ireland approved for use to travel to usa? It needs to have a video call component to be used but only needs to be an antigen test.
Thanks,
Kelly

mel123 · 10-05-2021 01:27PM

What a sh** show. I fully intend on travelling but i refuse to book anything yet because i had a few cancelled in the past year and a half and the effort to get a refund. Ill book the week i am going. But im now thinking when i do go away, ill take annual leave and then 'wfh' ie a hotel in a sunny climate. Im lucky that i can do that, i know many cant, but ill stay somewhere for a few weeks anyway. Even here the guidance on when and how we can get out for a bloody meal is ridiculous, i, like many others, are just so sick of it.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 10-05-2021 02:01PM

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/holohan-raises-hopes-of-spectators-in-croke-park-for-all-ireland-finals-1124694.html

Tony H seems to consider a stadium full of people shouting and spitting allover each other safer than international travel.

Dr Tony Holohan has said he would really like to see spectators at the All-Ireland finals in Croke Park this summer.

On the issue of foreign travel, he said it was getting near the stage when it could be examined, but it would not happen until it was safe and appropriate to do so. That was in the “near to medium term”.

Mandatory hotel quarantine would continue for as long as it had value and he considered it an effective measure to halt transmission.

Lumen · 10-05-2021 02:11PM

Chuck Norris 2021 wrote: »

Dr Tony Holohan has said he would really like to see spectators at the All-Ireland finals in Croke Park this summer.

On the issue of foreign travel, he said it was getting near the stage when it could be examined, but it would not happen until it was safe and appropriate to do so. That was in the “near to medium term”.

Those two statements are meaningless and can't really be compared. Is "this summer" in the "near" or "medium" term?

It's on the same level of heroic imprecision as "a number of weeks".

Corholio · 10-05-2021 02:15PM

Any murmurings of when the other UK countries, NI etc, may announce plans for their travel reopening? A week to go to the 17th and it seems unsure if only England will be opening from that date.

Feria40 · 10-05-2021 02:18PM

Per the Journal.ie Pfizer and Astra Zeneca don't appear too worried about the variants:

No evidence that Pfizer vaccine needs updating for variants, says BioNTech https://jrnl.ie/5433235

With 33% of adults here now having received a jab and soon to be hitting 300k a week, it may well be coming time for NPHET to say bye bye.

I see Germany and Spain have also hit 30% coverage and are going full speed like ourselves.

The non essential travel advisory surely has to go next month for all but the worst affected countries

Ray Donovan · 10-05-2021 02:45PM

I have emailed my 5 TD's about the travel fine. Now onto complain to the European Commission....

Feria40 · 10-05-2021 02:52PM

Ray Donovan wrote: »

I have emailed my 5 TD's about the travel fine. Now onto complain to the European Commission....

That's my plan for this evening. May not be worth much but I want to voice my dissatisfaction anyway.

This doesn't affect everyone and lots of people have no interest in holidaying abroad this year. This is absolutely fine.

But that doesn't make it right not does it take any account of families like my own who have parents and grandparents abroad (both sets of which are vacinated now).

kickmark19 · 10-05-2021 02:55PM

Are the gardai actively questioning and fining people in Dublin airport? Hoping to book flights to Mexico leaving May 29th but a 2k fine would put me off.

TomSweeney · 10-05-2021 02:57PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Honestly, every time I see the word ‘scumbags’ trending on Irish Twitter I click in expecting to see people tweeting about Donnelly and NPHET but find it to be about kids in Malahide and Howth.

Sad isn't it, and people actually believe that these kids being human with a normal need for social interaction are responsible for this.

Ray Donovan · 10-05-2021 03:01PM

kickmark19 wrote: »

Are the gardai actively questioning and fining people in Dublin airport? Hoping to book flights to Mexico leaving May 29th but a 2k fine would put me off.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Chuck Norris 2021 · 10-05-2021 03:05PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Per the Journal.ie Pfizer and Astra Zeneca don't appear too worried about the variants:

No evidence that Pfizer vaccine needs updating for variants, says BioNTech https://jrnl.ie/5433235

With 33% of adults here now having received a jab and soon to be hitting 300k a week, it may well be coming time for NPHET to say bye bye.

I see Germany and Spain have also hit 30% coverage and are going full speed like ourselves.

The non essential travel advisory surely has to go next month for all but the worst affected countries

I'd expect that they'll keep the travel advisory until at least September as a deterant to travel, both to apease NPHET and keep money in the country. To be honest I would even go so far as to say it'll be around until next year. Not that it'll mean anything to those of us that want to travel when the fine goes, and fingers crossed that'll happen in June.

10-05-2021 03:08PM

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

The response to my previous complaint included the following (emphasis mine):

"In addition, we understand that currently, within Ireland, people cannot, without reasonable excuse travel outside their own county or within 20km of their home if crossing county boundaries. These provisions are complemented by a prohibition on non-essential travel abroad. If the severity of the situation does require such drastic restrictions to domestic movement, it does not seem to be disproportionate to restrict travel to other Member States for non-essential purposes. In such a case, it seems difficult to argue that a Member State would not be allowed to ensure the respect of legal obligations and prohibitions. However, any fees should remain proportionate to the alleged offence and be adapted to the national framework for such related offences."

I don't think it's unreasonable to argue that now the 20km/county restrictions are gone, the restrictions on travel to other member states are no longer proportionate.

That's neither here nor there. What you or I or even they consider reasonable doesn't come into it. They cant do anything about it. What is it you actually expect them to do?

dublin_paul wrote: »

No you're right, Stephen Donnelly renewed it today (on the date of expiry) until June

Marcusm wrote: »

When was 217 published? Not in Iris Oifigiul on Friday 7 May.

Now that is just pure ****ing with people albeit expected. June should, fingers crossed be the end of it though

a_squirrelman · 10-05-2021 03:08PM

TomSweeney wrote: »

Sad isn't it, and people actually believe that these kids being human with a normal need for social interaction are responsible for this.

I think you're mixing topics up there Tom. The kids are being called scumbags for pushing people under trains and acting like scumbags.

I don't think anyone is calling them scumbags because of breaking covid restrictions.

I don't disagree that Donnelly etc are also scumbags

gozunda · 10-05-2021 03:21PM

Feria40 wrote: »

Given today's restriction is for the guts of a month it's hard to fathom why it was only rolled for 6 days last time around

I would hazard a guess that with domestic holidays here not yet opened up with rental of accommodation services remaining prohibited until 2 June - there's not going to be any overt moves to change the current advisory against non essential travel abroad. Also I believe the previous date may simply have been there for breaching purposes

Even the UK (I know not part of the EU) international travel is still illegal.

I think its a bit premature for people to think that non essential travel for international holidays is going to be opened up just yet.

To this point its also likley that existing domestic
Holiday restrictions means that a ban on non essential travel abroad is still deemed proportionate. I can't see appeals to the EU is going make any difference tbf.

Chuck Norris 2021 · 10-05-2021 03:25PM

Feria40 wrote: »

That's my plan for this evening. May not be worth much but I want to voice my dissatisfaction anyway.

You should start with the shinners for the laugh, the ones that wanted the whole country closed. Though they may be inundated with complaints about the prospect of minimum pricing on Dutch Gold at the moment :pac::D

Wallander · 10-05-2021 03:35PM

gozunda wrote: »

I think its a bit premature for people to think that non essential travel for holidays is going to be opened up just yet.

To this point its also likley that existing domestic
Holusay restrictions means that a ban on non essential travel abroad is still deemed proportionate. I can't see appeals to the EU is going make any difference tbf.

Complaints to the EU will definitely make a difference. The EU was publicly threatening Belgium with legal action this spring for allowing non-essential domestic travel while banning non-essential international travel:

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/eu-continues-to-pressure-belgium-to-put-an-end-to-travel-ban/

One of Ireland's leading EU law experts today says:

https://twitter.com/deckie/status/1391718891043368963

EireLemon · 10-05-2021 03:42PM

Is travelling for non-essential reasons not banned in NI as well and we could still be liable to pay a fine?

Lumen · 10-05-2021 03:42PM

gozunda wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that with domestic holidays here not yet opened up with rental of accommodation services remaining prohibited until 2 June - there's not going to be any overt moves to change the current advisory against non essential travel abroad. Also I believe the previous date may simply have been there for breaching purposes...I think its a bit premature for people to think that non essential travel for holidays is going to be opened up just yet.

There's no ban on holidays, it's a ban on "non-essential" travel, which includes seeing close family members. My kids haven't seen their grandmother for almost 18 months, and I imagine there are loads of families in the same situation.

gozunda wrote: »

Even the UK (I know not part of the EU) international travel is still illegal.

Irrelevant. Which EU countries have 2k fines for travel to ports and airports? None, as far as I know.

gozunda wrote: »

To this point its also likley that existing domestic
Holusay restrictions means that a ban on non essential travel abroad is still deemed proportionate. I can't see appeals to the EU is going make any difference tbf.

The quoted response from the EU specifically cited the county+20km restrictions in justifying the proportionality of the international travel ban. That's gone now, so are you predicting that they're just pulling reasons out of their arses? That's not how bureaucrats work. The EU is held together by rules.

As for whether the Irish government can get away with pissing off the EU for a few more weeks, that remains to be seen. Their attempts to stall the digital cert have come to nothing so far. This issue affects the fundamental rights of non-Irish EU citizens resident in Ireland. This is a big deal.

You do seem to be bending over backwards to justify the status quo.

pc7 · 10-05-2021 03:43PM

I’ve booked accommodation on Spain for august, it’s fully refundable so will just take the chance now in hope its not too much hassle to go. Will book flights July as should know by then if we need to go from Belfast or Dublin.

Feria40 · 10-05-2021 03:50PM

pc7 wrote: »

I’ve booked accommodation on Spain for august, it’s fully refundable so will just take the chance now in hope its not too much hassle to go. Will book flights July as should know by then if we need to go from Belfast or Dublin.

My only worry would be that leaving it til July could result in the flights costing an arm and a leg, regardless of whether it's Dublin or Belfast.

pc7 · 10-05-2021 04:05PM

Feria40 wrote: »

My only worry would be that leaving it til July could result in the flights costing an arm and a leg, regardless of whether it's Dublin or Belfast.

I’ve a huge chunk of aer Lingus vouchers and got a steal on the accommodation, it’s a 1/3 if what we were due to pay last august. I’ll take the hit if needs be. Hopefully we’ll know more in a month and can book then. Myself and husband should both be vaccinated by then, it’ll just be what’s needed test wise etc for kids I want to be able to gauge.

gozunda · 10-05-2021 04:06PM

Lumen wrote: »

There's no ban on holidays, it's a ban on "non-essential" travel, which includes seeing close family members. My kids haven't seen their grandmother for almost 18 months, and I imagine there are loads of families in the same situation.
Irrelevant. Which EU countries have 2k fines for travel to ports and airports? None, as far as I know. The quoted response from the EU specifically cited the county+20km restrictions in justifying the proportionality of the international travel ban. That's gone now, so are you predicting that they're just pulling reasons out of their arses? That's not how bureaucrats work. The EU is held together by rules.As for whether the Irish government can get away with pissing off the EU for a few more weeks, that remains to be seen. Their attempts to stall the digital cert have come to nothing so far. This issue affects the fundamental rights of non-Irish EU citizens resident in Ireland. This is a big deal.
You do seem to be bending over backwards to justify the status quo.

Well no. Non essential domestic travel here
is being allowed from today.

The ban on domestic tourist activity to which I referred to as a possible relevant restriction - relates to the restrictions on rental of all domestic holidays/ accommodation services which remain prohibited until 2 June. And which I guess will be used to justify a proportionate ban on international travel for tourism/ holiday purposes. Thats just my opinion btw.

The UK stance on this - does indeed give an indication where the restrictions are at - at this moment.

Not sure what protecting your grandparents from the risk of infection has anything got to do with the issue of flying off to Playa del Tonto or wherever but no matter.

I see we're back to that old bug gear that Ireland has to do exactly what other EU countries do in absolutely everything. We don't - see individual countries response to pandemic for details. Even Germany were at odds with the yet to be implemented digital cert. That said looks like it will be the middle of the summer before its up and running properly.

Re your "quoted response" - that was in relation to previous correspondence and restrictions then. It remains domestic holiday are prohibited until the beginning the June. Coincidently around the same data as the current extension.

I think you're the only one referring to anyone pulling anything 'out of their arses'. But hey whatever.

And nope simply pointing out some reality in an apparent screaming mass of hysteria about wanting to head off on holidays now! But there we are

Corholio · 10-05-2021 04:11PM

EireLemon wrote: »

Is travelling for non-essential reasons not banned in NI as well and we could still be liable to pay a fine?

At the moment yes but hoping they announce their plans soon to fall in line with Englands. All 4 UK countries agreed to the traffic light implementation.

gozunda · 10-05-2021 04:13PM

Wallander wrote: »

Complaints to the EU will definitely make a difference. The EU was publicly threatening Belgium with legal action this spring for allowing non-essential domestic travel while banning non-essential international travel:

Well the fact is complaints didn't make a difference previously. Different countries aside it remains we have restrictions on domestic tourism activities, for example hotels, B&Bs, rental of mobile homes etc. I would reckon that will likley be proffered as reason why we still have restrictions on non essential international travel. Just my opinion though.

Wallander wrote: »

One of Ireland's leading EU law experts today says:...

Ah yet another media hungry Expert. Fair enough.

Lumen · 10-05-2021 04:22PM

gozunda wrote: »

The ban on domestic holidays to which I referred to as a possible relevant restriction relates to rental of all domestic holidays/ accommodation services which remain prohibited until 2 June. And which I guess will be used to justify a proportionate ban on international travel for tourism/ holiday purposes.

We do not have a "ban on international travel for tourism/ holiday purposes". We have a ban on travelling to ports and airports for "non-essential" reasons. There is no equivalence.

If I want to travel to France I can do so, provided that I obey the public health measures in place on arrival. And then when I travel back, I can comply with whatever rules are in place back here. So I don't actually have a massive problem with quarantine, MHQ or otherwise, whichever country applies it. Essentially, if you have enough of a want/need to travel you can put up with the inconvenience and/or expense.

The ban on travelling to ports and airports is different. It is a criminal offence, not a matter or expense or convenience. There is no justification for it, which is why no other EU country has done it.

Why are you even attempting to justify this? Because "abundance of caution"?

namloc1980 · 10-05-2021 04:32PM

gozunda wrote: »

Well the fact is complaints didn't make a difference previously. Different countries aside it remains we have restrictions on domestic tourism activities, for example hotels, B&Bs, rental of mobile homes etc. I would reckon that will likley be proffered as reason why we still have restrictions on non essential international travel. Just my opinion though.

We have restrictions on driving/cycling/walking to airports and ports which is outrageous.

Are we there yet? Your second Travel Megathread (threadbans in OP}

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